Endothil CR

Nutrition
41

Now I am not going to lie, before I began to take this product I researched all of the ingredients:
Green Tomato SE
Grape Seed SE
Green Tea SE
Quercetin
Rutin

I usually go to supplementwatch.com to look up and see what the deal is with certain supplements because they do not sell supplements and are usually a no BS, straight to the facts site that gives you a pretty good understanding of what supplements do and the research behind it. I was able to find info on all the ingredients except Rutin, and Green tomato. All of the other ingredients do have their benefits, so this product should not be discarded all together, however saying that it can give you steroid like results is totally ridiculous. But in the defense of this guy I was only taking one a day as recommended but after looking at the product, it is calorie based therfor I probably should have been taking 2 as I was way over a 2000 calorie diet. I would have to agree with everyone else the best thing to do would be to take pix before and after and let us know what the real deal is with this stuff. As for me I still think it’s total BS. Even if I was eating more than 2000 calories I should have felt or seen atleast a little change.

42

[quote]DTC wrote:
No, I am not at all involved in the marketing of this product. I put “READ” because when I searched the site for other posts regarding endothil all I found were topics made and replies given from people who never took the drug who said things like “IT IS ONLY B2 VITAMIN… IMPOSSIBLE!11!” I do not expect everyon to agree or believe the claims about my friend, in fact I expected most of you to say the exact same ingredient argument and saying that it’s nothing. There was not one post that I found where someone else took it and said it was terrible, they were merely all ignorant replies. As you noticed, I was interested in Andrew’s reply.

Now let me back up here, I realize that asking questions must mean I am trying to undermine this man’s claims and promote this product once again!

Oh wait, it doesn’t. It actually means I am interested in his findings. Oh, I’m sorry guys, I forgot that being interested in a product is being gullible, because there’s no way 400% of a B2 vitamin could make you bigger.

To those of you that said it is impossible for there to be an extract from green tomatoes that helps with muscle recovery - you all need to work on your intellect. If people simply denied the possibility of finding something new (which is what those involved in this argument did), then there wouldn’t be many advances in science.

Now, this is probably a bad example, but it’s the first one that comes to mind - fish oil. Impossible! How come no one knew about the magical effects of fish oil before research? Being able to make blood platelets less reactive? Rejuvenating skin? Unheard of! Oh wait guys, we researched it and there are more than ample amounts of EFAs such as Omega 3. With your line of thinking, we should’ve just immediately dismissed the thoughts that eating fish oil could possibly be beneficial.
[/quote]

Oh. My. Lord.

You have flown off in an impossibly ridiculous direction, my friend. The idea is not that it’s impossible for something beneficial to be gained from green tomato extract, it’s more that the idea that if there was something SO SUPER AMAZING to be gained from it… ya think someone would have heard of it or had a study on it.

If you want to believe the hypemasters, be my guest, drop your hard-earned cash on it. No sweat… but don’t ask us to suddenly buy into the snake oil too.

43

OK, I changed my mind. After seeing how super-jacked Jessica Tandy and Kathy Bates got from (fried) green tomatoes (let alone their extract), I’m sold.

44

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Now I am not going to lie, before I began to take this product I researched all of the ingredients:
Green Tomato SE
Grape Seed SE
Green Tea SE
Quercetin
Rutin

I usually go to supplementwatch.com to look up and see what the deal is with certain supplements because they do not sell supplements and are usually a no BS, straight to the facts site that gives you a pretty good understanding of what supplements do and the research behind it. I was able to find info on all the ingredients except Rutin, and Green tomato. All of the other ingredients do have their benefits, so this product should not be discarded all together, however saying that it can give you steroid like results is totally ridiculous. But in the defense of this guy I was only taking one a day as recommended but after looking at the product, it is calorie based therfor I probably should have been taking 2 as I was way over a 2000 calorie diet. I would have to agree with everyone else the best thing to do would be to take pix before and after and let us know what the real deal is with this stuff. As for me I still think it’s total BS. Even if I was eating more than 2000 calories I should have felt or seen atleast a little change.[/quote]

no no no

you got it all wrong, to get big and huge, you need to eat less so the stuff works better!

45

[quote]CU AeroStallion wrote:
no no no

you got it all wrong, to get big and huge, you need to eat less so the stuff works better![/quote]

No actually the only true way for the green tomato to work properly is if you go on a high fat high carb- 0 protein diet. I heard that protein and green tomatoes just don’t get a long… :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously- isn’t a green tomato just a red tomato but about 10 days earlier?

46

NIIIiiice post here. Just two thoughts and that’s all that needs to be said then the thread should end.

  1. THe guy who started this didn’t even take endothil. SOmeone who he “kinda knows” and sees at the gym does. In fact he says he saw the guys make the gains himself. Seeing is believing. PLUS the guy said he isn’t taking any AAS or other performance enhancing compounds, JUST ENDOTHIL CR. So we can all tell that there is no way the guy is just lying, right? I mean he said he wasn’t, and nobody lies to people they see at the gym regularly about using illegal substances when they’re asked, right? :slight_smile: So there’s all the proof you need right there. He saw it with his own eyes and asked the guy if he as using anything and he told him straight up just protein powder and endothil cr. What more proof could you ask for.

  2. In case you hadn’t picked up my sarcasm here’s something else to ponder. 17 lbs of lean muscle would be great in 4 weeks from an AAS or PH cycle (btw, I don’t give a shit what anyone says, most of the PH’s out on the market right now work and are also wrought with just as many/if not more sides then AAS). The training style you have mentioned is NOT revolutionary and that isn’t a dig, just the facts bro. Take a look around here and you’ll see, pay special attention to the dates next to the articles. It’s been done. As for adding tomatoe seed extract or wtf other antioxidants are in that product to the training style? NOPE sorry that’s just laughible, but I’m tying to be nice since you could very well be just some young enthusiastic kid/guy just getting into lifting seriously and thinking you’ve found some amazing supplement. In all actuallity that’s not the case. What’s most likely is you’re buddy was either already that size/and or has some great genetics and muscle memory going to get those kind of gains OR!!! He’s just jerking you off by telling you a bullshit supplement like endothil cr gave him those gains. In fact while it’s not that nice alot of guys I know do that and to be honest it’s kind of a way of saying “Yes, bro I’m gaining muscle at a suspicious rate. It would have been cool if you’d just mind you own business, but instead you had to come up and bother me so here you go! I got these results from taking endothil. Most guys I know smile and say creatine and glutamine, but I’ve heard others.”

So unless you wanna man up buy some take it train like you mentioned and use some GNC whey then post pics of you gains, please just keep it to yourself. For the love of god, I do really like this site but come on!!! Isn’t there rules about mentioning other companies supplements? Ohhh the irony!Gnite.

47

Okay, first off the order of occurence was as follows. My aforementioned walked into my room about 6 weeks ago and said “Check it out, I just got this new supplement - endothil CR.” And I was kind of interested in it since another friend read up on it in Scientific American the other day. I was still skeptical of the supposedly miraculous drug so I didn’t really ask any more questions about it. That is, until I saw him with his shirt off again 4 weeks later and noticed he got bigger. I’m really not sure where all of you are drawing your conclusions of me being a marketer for Novex Biotech from.

The reason I haven’t bought it yet is two-fold: as you can clearly read in my first post - I’m in the middle of a total body training cycle and won’t rotate back to split training for at least 8 weeks. That being said, I wanted to see the kinds of results it has had for other people (such as Andrew, one of the useful posters on this topic), before I bought into the product.

As far as those that are interested in the science behind this product too, I’ve been wondering that myself???

Tuck, mbing25, and jasonblahblah provide the best insight it seems.

And I don’t believe I ever told any of you to buy the product, so I’m not sure why you guys are getting defensive. If I did say that, feel free to quote it and I aplogize if something I said came off that way.

That being said - I intend to try it once I go back to a split routine. If I do end up trying it, I’ll be sure to do a before/after post to let you guys know if it worked.

-DTC

48

Here is the study summary. These were untrainded subjects who increased their leg press bo 70lbs., their bench by 10lbs. and their arm size by by four times the test group which, as the study states had no increase in arm size (.03 inches). Plus, and this is the big benefit… Drumroll… There was NO change in weight or bodyfat!!

THIS PRODUCTS OWN STUDY SAYS IT DOESN’T WORK. WHY WOULD ANYONE WITH 3 FUNCTIONAL BRAIN CELLS BUY IT. I COULD MAKE BETTER GAINS ON CREATINE FOR $15 RATHER THAN THIS CRAP FOR $100 PER CYCLE.

"Results
After six weeks, the subjects who took the active compound experienced a significant (p<0.05) increase in both upper and lower body strength as well as in circumference of the biceps muscle.

Specifically, the amount of weight bench pressed increased by 10 lbs. in subjects receiving ECR?s core compound
compared to an increase of 5 lbs. in subjects receiving placebo.

The amount of weight leg pressed increased 70 lbs. in the experimental group versus 20 lbs. in placebo treated subjects.

The treatment group experienced a significant increase
in biceps circumference that was more than four times that of the placebo group, who experienced almost no increase in biceps circumference (p=0.03). There were no significant changes between the two groups in quadriceps
circumference, % body fat, % lean body mass, weight, or body mass index."

49

[/quote]

That being said - I intend to try it once I go back to a split routine. If I do end up trying it, I’ll be sure to do a before/after post to let you guys know if it worked.

-DTC

[/quote]

Go to the web site and read the study. You are wasting your money on Endothil-CR. The study says that after six weeks there were minimal gains in size (one/tenth of an inch on yoru bicep)and zero gains in muscle size, bodyweight, and zero fat lost. You could make better gains than 10lbs. on your bench and 70lbs. on leg presses in six weeks buy using some of the workouts on the site and trying Berardis “massive eating”.

50

Yeah that study makes it sound like shit, I completely agree Conan. Those gains are terrible.

The link to a summary of the scientific studies on it was edited out by the mods since I guess it indirectly supported another website. Which is more than fair, so I’ll give a summary of what the summarizing webpage said heh. Here goes - They think the compound binds to the a7nicotinic avetylcholine receptor which therefore causes an increase in the influx of calcium ions.

This causes the IP3 cascade which “causes migrating precursor cells to migrate where the trauma occurs.” Precursor cells are then supposed to turn into muscle cells. Physiologically the whole influx of calium ions makes sense, but I’m not so sure about the last part of it.

He also summed it up basically in another post -
"here is some more info on what the “theory” is behind endothil. exercising to exhaustion produces a signal cascade that activates the 7alpha nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. the active ingredient in endothil does the same thing (bind to that receptor).

Alot of things happen because of this:
1)Calcium influx
2)IP3 cascade
3)Gene transcription
4)protein synthesis
and 5) progenitor cell recruitment from the blood stream and bone marrow."

This is what a doctor said on the forum who works in a trauma center -
"Tuck, being a medical doctor I am sure you did part of your residency in the OR or trauma medicine. I work at one of the largest rural trauma hospitals in America and can honestly say, Endothil is recommended to pt.s who are having some sort of reconstructive surgery.

I know during the recovery period of my patients, most of them are still being mechanically ventilated and comatose, receive a muscle stimulator similair to Endothil. Once they are ready for discharge, we send them to PT for iontophoresis and recommend products like endothil. I am not supporting it, nor I am saying it does not work, but, it is used in the recovery of fast and slow twitch muscle fibers.

Although I agree, there is no savoring going on. And swallowing, nope, it gets stuck in the teeth before you can swallow. I recommend that you crush it up, make a paste, and put it under your tongue. gets absorbed faster."

I’m unsure if any of that means endothil cr really works, but I guess if I do end up trying it I’ll let you know.

-DTC

51

Click your heals together Dorothy – you are trying awful hard to believe. Some dorks chatting about the “theory” doesn’t mean a lot when there are no studies showing that the theory works.

Meow Meow Meow Meow, Meow Meow Meow Meow!

Do you think they’ve copyrighted that “slogan”, or can I use it when I release my new weight gain formula… soon to followed by a maintenance formula… and then a hairball reduction formula.

I’m going to be rich!

52

[quote]DTC wrote:
Yeah that study makes it sound like shit, I completely agree Conan. Those gains are terrible.

The link to a summary of the scientific studies on it was edited out by the mods since I guess it indirectly supported another website. Which is more than fair, so I’ll give a summary of what the summarizing webpage said heh. Here goes - They think the compound binds to the a7nicotinic avetylcholine receptor which therefore causes an increase in the influx of calcium ions.

This causes the IP3 cascade which “causes migrating precursor cells to migrate where the trauma occurs.” Precursor cells are then supposed to turn into muscle cells. Physiologically the whole influx of calium ions makes sense, but I’m not so sure about the last part of it.

He also summed it up basically in another post -
"here is some more info on what the “theory” is behind endothil. exercising to exhaustion produces a signal cascade that activates the 7alpha nicotinic acetylcholine receptor. the active ingredient in endothil does the same thing (bind to that receptor).

Alot of things happen because of this:
1)Calcium influx
2)IP3 cascade
3)Gene transcription
4)protein synthesis
and 5) progenitor cell recruitment from the blood stream and bone marrow."

This is what a doctor said on the forum who works in a trauma center -
"Tuck, being a medical doctor I am sure you did part of your residency in the OR or trauma medicine. I work at one of the largest rural trauma hospitals in America and can honestly say, Endothil is recommended to pt.s who are having some sort of reconstructive surgery.

I know during the recovery period of my patients, most of them are still being mechanically ventilated and comatose, receive a muscle stimulator similair to Endothil. Once they are ready for discharge, we send them to PT for iontophoresis and recommend products like endothil. I am not supporting it, nor I am saying it does not work, but, it is used in the recovery of fast and slow twitch muscle fibers.

Although I agree, there is no savoring going on. And swallowing, nope, it gets stuck in the teeth before you can swallow. I recommend that you crush it up, make a paste, and put it under your tongue. gets absorbed faster."

I’m unsure if any of that means endothil cr really works, but I guess if I do end up trying it I’ll let you know.

-DTC
[/quote]

Suddenly from behind the rim of the moon…

53

Dudes, DTC is totally onto something here, we should seriously thank him. I mean, check out the pic above. There’s 4 hot T-Vixens if ever I saw. There’s totally something to this stuff.

54

Well I’ll tell you what DTC, you’re a good sport to say the least. Not the least bit defensive after all the crap everyone just gave you, that’s admirable. Keep a log on another site if you really do run this product in the manner you mentioned. Pm me if you actually do it.

55

The old " We use it on trauma patients…" schtick sounds like the old NO2 pitch. They used the same thing, except it was burn victims.

Also notice that they use a “similar” compound on patients. That is about as slippery a statement as can be made. Butter is very similar to straight testosterone, which is very anabolic. Hell, it even contains some of the precursors, causes a cascade, and is great on toast.

I’m gonna go stack some green tomatos and butter.

56

I thought you couldn’t discuss highly potent illegal anabolic stacks on this website… Please PM me if you have a source.

57

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
I’m gonna go stack some green tomatos and butter.[/quote]

That’s it. I’m going to throw out all my test and d-bol and switch to injecting butter and green tomatoes into my eyeballs. I’ll be huge!!!

To the OP - This is the most obvious sale’s pitch I have ever heard. LAME!!

58

[quote]DTC wrote:
Yeah that study makes it sound like shit, I completely agree Conan. Those gains are terrible.

blah blah

I’m unsure if any of that means endothil cr really works, but I guess if I do end up trying it I’ll let you know.

-DTC

[/quote]

You blew it with this post. You’re way too invested in this product for someone who’s not actually taking it. I give you credit for trying to seem impartial, but the people around here can see right through you. You don’t have a consistent voice and you’re obviously lying. Try this crap on a different website.

59

[quote]TheBige wrote:
I’m gonna go stack some green tomatos and butter.

I thought you couldn’t discuss highly potent illegal anabolic stacks on this website… Please PM me if you have a source.[/quote]

But wait! There’s more! Not only are some of the substances in this stack related to highly androgenic/anabolic abracadabra, but they are completely Legal! The Secret is in the combination of these two powerfull substances. This Secret is highly classified and gaurded by geneticaly manipulated rottweilers with I.Q.s of over 300.

Oops! I think I jumped the shark on that last one. Never mind.

60

Hahahah, oh boy Horatio. You’re quite the astute fellow eh? You sure fuckin’ nipped that right in the bud. Damn man, you’re good. bows. Fine work detective… fine work.

-DTC