[quote]tribunaldude wrote:
Yes. droop rows.
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
some pullover machines and then there is a certain kind of row where you round your back to an extent and use fairly little weight…
[/quote]
Just realized you beat me to those. (didn’t know what exactly they were called either)
Scapula rotations…You basically do a chin (OH grip…I’ve always called OH grip ‘chins’) with your grip only about shoulder width and you try and lift up w/o moving your arms. It’s like you try to lift your chest up to the bar, but you’ll only go a few inches because your arms are fixed. Squeeze them bitches at the top and presto…!
They really hit the lower/mid lats really well.
Those and straight-bar pulldowns.
Bango
Neither do I. Its just what I always called them lol.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
(didn’t know what exactly they were called either)[/quote]
Hahaha, don’t you love being the first to chime in? You could have called them whatever you wanted!
Droop rows… lol
Tribal rows? That sounds better 
Google didnt turn anything up for me for droop rows, so I was a little confused. Now you just have to take some pics and videos and host them, labelled what you want. Google will turn them up in searches, and then people will start calling them that.
Ok so my right lat is low and my left lat is high… kind of like how I have a nice “inner pec” on my left pec, but my right pec has a divet… am I a freak?
Also my left bicept has no peak, whereas my right kinda does… yah…
So how do I get some symmetry goin’ here? lol
It’s called a Jockey Row
Basically you take the body from a horrid posture and row to a perfect posture on a cable setup with light or moderate weights.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1488822897563698147
http://www.ironguru.com/back-building/page-2
This is a back building page from the iron guru site. About a quarter of the way down is a piece on an exercise called scapula rotations, intended to bring out the lower lats. Never tried it, but seems a fair exercise.
Once my deadlift got close to 500 pounds, I could feel every fibre in my lats afterwards…
(My apologies. I don’t know how to post the picture in the right place in the post. It’s there to illustrate the attachments of latissimus dorsi. Notice that the fibers don’t attach to the back of the humerus (upper arm bone), but to the front!)
To current knowledge, it isn’t possible to stimulate the proximal part of a muscle any more than the distal - through exercise anyway. Thus, stimulating the proximal fibers of the latissimus dorsi by definition wouldn’t be possible.
However, the outer part of the latissimus dorsi, which attaches the lowest to the thoracolumbar fascia, would be possible to target specifically, at least in theory. In that sense, you could try training the outer fibers of the muscle to make the lower part stand out.
When trying to figure out the best exercise for it, it’s important to remember that the muscle attaches, surprisingly, to the anterior (front) part of humerus. The muscle fibers also make a twist under the armpit, reversing the order of the fibers. Thus the outer fibers of the muscle attach to the most medial (inner) part of the humerus which makes stretching the fibers very challenging.
I’m not sure what exercise would suit the best but would guess pullovers or straight arm pulldowns might make the outer fibers stretch the most which might inflict more damage to them.
I hope you guys can come up with even better exercises and applications to this.
You cannot preferentially target different sections of of a muscle fiber or fibers(like “inner pecs”).
However, you can definitely preferential target a specific group of fibers in the same muscle belly (like “upper pecs” or “lower lats”).
I think people(even highly educated people) don’t understand how this is achieved and what exercises to use because they are not creative enough to understand mechanics on a high level.
How does this work exactly?
It’s too valuable to me to expose in a public forum.
So you can pm me and find out.
[quote]Kerley wrote:
Reverse-grip pulldowns
just like dorian yates ;)[/quote]
From Dorian himself: Dorian Yates Discusses Bodybuilding Training: Never-Before Published Insights!
[i]The reason I did the close reverse-grip pull down was to put the biceps in a mechanically stronger position. The regular-to-wide grip pull down puts your biceps in such a weak position and your lats are never really going to go to failure because that is the weak link.
So I tried to make that as strong as possible with a reverse grip. A fairly close-grip because your lats attach under your arms and lower down your back, so the further apart those two points are, the greater the stretch you are going to get and the greater range of motion.
Contrary to what most people think: that a close-grip will not give you as good a stretch as a wide grip. So there are two reasons for doing it. You have to use good control and arch your spine at the bottom when you contract. Then you will be using your lats more.[/i]
I also thought this point was very good:
[i]I do a lot of stuff to emphasise lat muscles. A lot of people when they train their back think they’re training lat muscles, but they end up training their rhomboids, teres and traps.
They get good upper back development but the mid back and lower back is not fully developed.
That is quite common. For the lats to really work and contract properly you have to arch your spine at the completion and control it; it is not easy. Everybody who has trained with me has improved his or her back because of the techniques we use.[/i]
[quote]limitatinfinity wrote:
You cannot preferentially target different sections of of a muscle fiber or fibers(like “inner pecs”).
However, you can definitely preferential target a specific group of fibers in the same muscle belly (like “upper pecs” or “lower lats”).
I think people(even highly educated people) don’t understand how this is achieved and what exercises to use because they are not creative enough to understand mechanics on a high level.
How does this work exactly?
It’s too valuable to me to expose in a public forum.
So you can pm me and find out.[/quote]
I’m glad you’re interested in helping people out with this - even if only through a PM.
Do remember though that understanding the mechanics on a high level isn’t really about being creative, even though any effort is probably better than none. One can’t accurately predict what the body will do in a given exercise, but we can of course try. You sound a little too certain to me.
On a related note, which pull-down grip variation in your opinion is the most effective in stimulating the latissimus dorsi as a whole, limitatinfinity?
you deadlift/have deadlifted with a mixed grip, I assume?
[quote]skohcl wrote:
Ok so my right lat is low and my left lat is high… kind of like how I have a nice “inner pec” on my left pec, but my right pec has a divet… am I a freak?
Also my left bicept has no peak, whereas my right kinda does… yah…
So how do I get some symmetry goin’ here? lol[/quote]
[quote]Tero_Physio wrote:
limitatinfinity wrote:
You cannot preferentially target different sections of of a muscle fiber or fibers(like “inner pecs”).
However, you can definitely preferential target a specific group of fibers in the same muscle belly (like “upper pecs” or “lower lats”).
I think people(even highly educated people) don’t understand how this is achieved and what exercises to use because they are not creative enough to understand mechanics on a high level.
How does this work exactly?
It’s too valuable to me to expose in a public forum.
So you can pm me and find out.
I’m glad you’re interested in helping people out with this - even if only through a PM.
Do remember though that understanding the mechanics on a high level isn’t really about being creative, even though any effort is probably better than none. One can’t accurately predict what the body will do in a given exercise, but we can of course try. You sound a little too certain to me.
On a related note, which pull-down grip variation in your opinion is the most effective in stimulating the latissimus dorsi as a whole, limitatinfinity?[/quote]
It’s not the difference in stimulation(recruitment) that changes, it’s the difference in fatigue and, as a result, micro trauma that changes. It’s the direct relationship between fiber length and force production that is the key.
lim@infinity
[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
you deadlift/have deadlifted with a mixed grip, I assume?
skohcl wrote:
Ok so my right lat is low and my left lat is high… kind of like how I have a nice “inner pec” on my left pec, but my right pec has a divet… am I a freak?
Also my left bicept has no peak, whereas my right kinda does… yah…
So how do I get some symmetry goin’ here? lol
[/quote]
No… 
I think its from being young and doing everything with my right arm, like starting the lawn-mower and chopping wood and starting the weed-eater and shiz… so my left lat go no work done at all until I started weightlifting…
But I do deadlift at least every other week
[quote]limitatinfinity wrote:
It’s not the difference in stimulation(recruitment) that changes, it’s the difference in fatigue and, as a result, micro trauma that changes. It’s the direct relationship between fiber length and force production that is the key.
lim@infinity[/quote]
Are we talking about the lower fibers of lats or the efficacy of different grips?
If there was no difference in fiber recruitment, how would you be able to make a difference in which part of the muscle you cause fatigue to with specific exercise selection?
Also, I’m not quite sure what you mean by the direct relationship being the key… The most obvious direct correlation between fiber length and force production to me is that the strength of the sarcomeres is the greatest when its length is around 2 micrometers (being the middle state). Being in this state, the least amount of damage is caused. That would contradict utilizing the fact that most muscle damage is caused in the stretched state.
Could you elaborate on what mechanism your talking about? Calcium leakage, mechanic damage, EC coupling system etc. It would make it easier for me to understand what you really are after.
By the way, I just realized internal rotation of humerus during concentric moevement and external rotation during eccentric movement might, in theory, prioritize the outer fibers by increasing the range of movement relative to the other fibers…
This is actually one of the things ive been focusing on lately as i have a high insertion also.
Supersetting single arm low cable with reverse grip pulldown. Emphasis on stretch throughout the sets.
As Icehawks post stated earlier, maintaining a solid arch is imperative. I still lose a rep or two at times if i lose concentration but there is definitely a very intense pump in the lower lats after.
Whether they have grown significantly in that region is another story so well see
And hello to everyone.
Lock
[quote]Vanilla-Gorilla wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Dennis Wolf, Dante, me etc all have high lats… That’s something you’re stuck with.
[/quote]
[quote]jimmybango wrote:
Scapula rotations…You basically do a chin (OH grip…I’ve always called OH grip ‘chins’) with your grip only about shoulder width and you try and lift up w/o moving your arms. It’s like you try to lift your chest up to the bar, but you’ll only go a few inches because your arms are fixed. Squeeze them bitches at the top and presto…!
They really hit the lower/mid lats really well.
Those and straight-bar pulldowns.
Bango[/quote]
This sounds a lot like scapula depression, which works the lower traps and rhomboids. I used it as a shoulder rehab exercise, and still use it for prehab.