Hello everyone. I’ve been thinking about this topic for quite some time and have not come to any conclusions. I’m sure some of you will have valuable insights.
The problem: Is it possible to eat in an ideal healthy manner and eat to gain mass as well?
From experience and literature, I know that the only way to gain muscle is to consume extreme amounts of calories and especially proteins. Lets not bog the discussion down with exact ratios, but for me the number is at least 3500 calories to gain any muscle (and I am a thin guy). Given the amount of protein in those 3500 calories, I am eating a lot more than most people.
But from nearly everything I have read about ideal diets for those looking to stay healthy, none of them condone a huge-calory diet. In fact, most recommend concentrating on fruits, vegetables, healthy fats, and some select proteins, all in moderation.
It is certainly possible to get one’s carbs from healthy sources recommended by books, but I just find it difficult to eat 3500-4000 calories per day and do it eating the light foods recommended by the health experts.
I do not plan on lowering my calories any time soon, but I would love to hear if anyone here has thought about this and tried to reconcile the bodybuilding attitude of “eat all I can (within reason)” with the “eat carefully/organically for health” attitude.
Thanks. I think we could all benefit from this discussion both in the short term and definitely in the long run.
It’s my opinion, and perhaps only my opinion. that eating healthy involves getting an appropriate amount of fruits and vegetables and so forth.
It doesn’t mean that all of your calories have to come from “healthy” food. You need nutrition… and once you’ve gotten it, calories are okay as well, as long as you avoid trans fats and probably refined carbohydrates.
Particularly if trying to add mass… you simply need energy (after the nutritional needs are met) to support anabolic activity.
[quote]esc wrote:
But what about the concept of too many calories putting too much strain on the digestive system? That has to be part of the equation too.[/quote]
Where do you get these ideas?
The body is meant to handle “stresses” of life… we are digestion monsters… short of blowing up your stomach, or other foolish nonsense, there is a lot of misinformation about what is “healthy”.
Of course, if you have some type of “condition” or “issue” that will change things greatly.
[quote]esc wrote:
But what about the concept of too many calories putting too much strain on the digestive system? That has to be part of the equation too.[/quote]
I might get bashed for this, but you’re absolutely right. Taking in too many clean solid calories is going to tax the digestive system.
One way I’ve found of balancing out clean eating, big eating for gains as well as digestive system rest is the Warrior Diet.
[quote]esc wrote:
But what about the concept of too many calories putting too much strain on the digestive system? That has to be part of the equation too.[/quote]
If you’re referring to “eating for health” in terms of longevity, then, yes, there is some evidence that calorie restriction may lead to an extended, healthier life and vice versa for those who “overeat”.
But the problem with that strict line of reasoning lies in the fact that there are way too many other factors involved in lifespan, such as smoking, lack of physical activity, types of calories consumed when “overeating”, etc. You have to figure that for the last two mentioned, a majority of the general public a) does not exercise, and b) consumes a lot of garbage most of the time.
So, until more research is done, I don’t think it’s possible to answer your question and it may never be. Individuality and genetics play such a large role in health and life span.
[quote]esc wrote:
But what about the concept of too many calories putting too much strain on the digestive system? That has to be part of the equation too.[/quote]
Part of what equation? Your body was designed to digest things. How much strain do you think is involved in it doing what it was meant to do? How do you ignore the concept of adaptation? Your body adapts to handle more food the more you feed it. If this wasn’t the case, there would be no 1,000lbs people laying in bed.
I can’t quote sources but I have heard that the healthiest people in the world (Japanese/Okinawan) limit their caloric intake (~2000 calories or so). I am not saying this is a good idea for gaining mass, but it seems very logical that people who “use” their organs less strenuosly will have those organs hold up longer.
[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
esc wrote:
But what about the concept of too many calories putting too much strain on the digestive system? That has to be part of the equation too.
I might get bashed for this, but you’re absolutely right. Taking in too many clean solid calories is going to tax the digestive system.
The bottom line is if you want to build considerable muscle on your frame you have to leave what is generally considered “healthy” from books marketed towards extremely unhealthy sedentary non exercising middle America behind.
If you follow that advice don’t be surprised when your gains are substandard.
Slowly increase your lean protein and healthy carbs and fat up so your body will adjust. Use products like Flameout and Greens Plus and Probotics such as the ones contained in Metabolic Complete which also brings to mind using Metabolic Drive Complete will alleviate the problem of getting so many calories from whole food straining your gut.
[quote]esc wrote:
I can’t quote sources but I have heard that the healthiest people in the world (Japanese/Okinawan) limit their caloric intake (~2000 calories or so). I am not saying this is a good idea for gaining mass, but it seems very logical that people who “use” their organs less strenuosly will have those organs hold up longer. [/quote]
Then stop eating so much and quit bodybuilding. Bodybuilding can be a part of a healthy lifestyle, but gaining muscle in and of itself is not based on health. No matter what anyone says, health does not require 16"+ arms. It seems you are confused on this issue. There are websites out there based on people eating less than 1,000cals a day. They all look like the walking dead, but hey, at least they don’t “stress their digestive system”. They also don’t have much sex.
[quote]Shoebolt wrote:
esc wrote:
But what about the concept of too many calories putting too much strain on the digestive system? That has to be part of the equation too.
I might get bashed for this, but you’re absolutely right. Taking in too many clean solid calories is going to tax the digestive system.
One way I’ve found of balancing out clean eating, big eating for gains as well as digestive system rest is the Warrior Diet.
[/quote]
[quote]esc wrote:
I can’t quote sources but I have heard that the healthiest people in the world (Japanese/Okinawan) limit their caloric intake (~2000 calories or so). I am not saying this is a good idea for gaining mass, but it seems very logical that people who “use” their organs less strenuosly will have those organs hold up longer. [/quote]
I think an important question to ask yourself is “how do you define health?” Just because someone “looks” healthy doesn’t mean they are. Sometimes bodybuilders are on stage and might look great but feel like garbage because of all the depleting that goes on (water, carb etc). Another example would be boxers who fight better at one weight than another. They might look better at one weight but on the other hand, their performance might suffer.
I think it’s an issue of quality of life vs quantity of life. I have no idea whether it’s true or not but I rather have pizza and work it off, and ice cream and work it off, than worry about stressing my organs. Then again I don’t really have the desire to live to be 100 either. If I want junk food I will have junk food worry free. It’s a balance I guess and damn it, sometimes those evil french fries are just good for the soul.
Of course Professor Im always right wants to believe its not unhealthy to consume enough food to feed a family of 4 everyday since he weighs in at 270 on a 5 11 frame. But hey he is big boned so its alright, you can tell by looking at the gigantic head.
[quote]Eric22 wrote:
Of course Professor Im always right wants to believe its not unhealthy to consume enough food to feed a family of 4 everyday since he weighs in at 270 on a 5 11 frame. But hey he is big boned so its alright, you can tell by looking at the gigantic head.
[/quote]
If you’re going to attempt humor to try and prove the Professor wrong, at least be funny. Having a point usually helps too.
What it all comes down to is what you view as “healthy”. If having good general health and the ability to pursue extra things in life is what you consider healthy, then fine. Most people are going to consider having visible muscle mass and low body fat percentages to be healthy. Neither is wrong, and neither is absolute truth.
There are multiple ways to attain good health, but healthyness as a whole is in the eye of the beholder.