Eastern Block Reps Per Set

[Thy1]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Heck, at Westside Barbell they have dozens of guys who bench 600-700+ and half of their bench pressing is done with weights of 45-50% for sets of 3 super fast reps. Why would using 80-85% not work for you?
[/quote]

Becuase they probably did twice my bench before even putting some thought into their programs and speed work. I have no doubts it’s effective benching “light” weight for 3 super fast reps when that super light weight is 150 kg…

Anyway, I have faith in what you say and won’t max out for a month to see what happens. Hopefully, I will surpass the 48 year old woman.

[sam21]

coach can you describe how you trained your legs(i mean the method) when you were competitive weightlifter.did You use block periodization or another method?also only squats did you perform or and other exercises (like squat from bottom position?).with respect SAM

[lavi]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Very interesting.

What do you mean by “80-88% is best” - should you not ramp to max weight of the day for the prescribed reps ?

Are you saying it might be better to ramp to say around 88% (still fast weight) for 2 reps and stay there for multiple sets until the speed slows down ?[/quote]

That is one approach to it.[/quote]

Which method - ramp to max weight OR ramp to max force weight (80-88%) should be used most of the time in training ? Should they be used equally or it might be more reasonable to spare yourself of neural fatigue from max weigts too often and use lesser weight more explosively and for more sets most of the time?
[/quote]

Ramp to max force weight. You can then add more sets as long as they remain max force sets (all reps are powerful).

Unless you compete in either powerlifting or olympic lifting there is actually no reason to work up to a true maximum. But if you choose to do so, only do it once a month and only if you feel 100% certain that you will beat a record.[/quote]

Hi CT,

I made a different longer post that for some reason hasn’t gone through for a while now. Here’s the short version:

I’ve been reading your HTH forum recently, and my impression was that you recommended that for a given exercise, you stop the exercise when you can’t add more weight for the prescribed number of reps.

Here, I am getting the impression that you recommend only going up to your max force set. Have your thoughts changed, or have I misunderstood something?

Thank you for your time.

[money24]

STUPIDITY IS DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AND EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS.

Hey thibs,

Another version of this quote and the one i originally heard/like is “insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.”
not quite as bad as calling someone stupid

[Thy1]

[quote]lavi wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Very interesting.

What do you mean by “80-88% is best” - should you not ramp to max weight of the day for the prescribed reps ?

Are you saying it might be better to ramp to say around 88% (still fast weight) for 2 reps and stay there for multiple sets until the speed slows down ?[/quote]

That is one approach to it.[/quote]

Which method - ramp to max weight OR ramp to max force weight (80-88%) should be used most of the time in training ? Should they be used equally or it might be more reasonable to spare yourself of neural fatigue from max weigts too often and use lesser weight more explosively and for more sets most of the time?
[/quote]

Ramp to max force weight. You can then add more sets as long as they remain max force sets (all reps are powerful).

Unless you compete in either powerlifting or olympic lifting there is actually no reason to work up to a true maximum. But if you choose to do so, only do it once a month and only if you feel 100% certain that you will beat a record.[/quote]

Hi CT,

I made a different longer post that for some reason hasn’t gone through for a while now. Here’s the short version:

I’ve been reading your HTH forum recently, and my impression was that you recommended that for a given exercise, you stop the exercise when you can’t add more weight for the prescribed number of reps.

Here, I am getting the impression that you recommend only going up to your max force set. Have your thoughts changed, or have I misunderstood something?

Thank you for your time.[/quote]

That’s what frustated me as well, as original posts on ramping suggested ramping to the highest load (max of the day), and that’s what I’ve been doing for quite some time. Ramping to max force weight was said to be different, lighter type of work and was recommended to use mostly on deload periods.

I understand that Thib develops his training methodology everyday and that’s great, but making me look totally wrong for following his older principle (ramping to max weight and try for a PR if you’re sure about it) and comparing me to a woman was rather uncalled for.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]lavi wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Very interesting.

What do you mean by “80-88% is best” - should you not ramp to max weight of the day for the prescribed reps ?

Are you saying it might be better to ramp to say around 88% (still fast weight) for 2 reps and stay there for multiple sets until the speed slows down ?[/quote]

That is one approach to it.[/quote]

Which method - ramp to max weight OR ramp to max force weight (80-88%) should be used most of the time in training ? Should they be used equally or it might be more reasonable to spare yourself of neural fatigue from max weigts too often and use lesser weight more explosively and for more sets most of the time?
[/quote]

Ramp to max force weight. You can then add more sets as long as they remain max force sets (all reps are powerful).

Unless you compete in either powerlifting or olympic lifting there is actually no reason to work up to a true maximum. But if you choose to do so, only do it once a month and only if you feel 100% certain that you will beat a record.[/quote]

Hi CT,

I made a different longer post that for some reason hasn’t gone through for a while now. Here’s the short version:

I’ve been reading your HTH forum recently, and my impression was that you recommended that for a given exercise, you stop the exercise when you can’t add more weight for the prescribed number of reps.

Here, I am getting the impression that you recommend only going up to your max force set. Have your thoughts changed, or have I misunderstood something?

Thank you for your time.[/quote]

That’s what frustated me as well, as original posts on ramping suggested ramping to the highest load (max of the day), and that’s what I’ve been doing for quite some time. Ramping to max force weight was said to be different, lighter type of work and was recommended to use mostly on deload periods.

I understand that Thib develops his training methodology everyday and that’s great, but making me look totally wrong for following his older principle (ramping to max weight and try for a PR if you’re sure about it) and comparing me to a woman was rather uncalled for.
[/quote]

I didn’t recommend ramping up to your PR. I always said to ramp up until you start grinding (not dominating the weight) at which point you stop.

I always trained this way, all my life, only maxing out once in a while when I feel certain that I can get a significant PR.

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]lavi wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Very interesting.

What do you mean by “80-88% is best” - should you not ramp to max weight of the day for the prescribed reps ?

Are you saying it might be better to ramp to say around 88% (still fast weight) for 2 reps and stay there for multiple sets until the speed slows down ?[/quote]

That is one approach to it.[/quote]

Which method - ramp to max weight OR ramp to max force weight (80-88%) should be used most of the time in training ? Should they be used equally or it might be more reasonable to spare yourself of neural fatigue from max weigts too often and use lesser weight more explosively and for more sets most of the time?
[/quote]

Ramp to max force weight. You can then add more sets as long as they remain max force sets (all reps are powerful).

Unless you compete in either powerlifting or olympic lifting there is actually no reason to work up to a true maximum. But if you choose to do so, only do it once a month and only if you feel 100% certain that you will beat a record.[/quote]

Hi CT,

I made a different longer post that for some reason hasn’t gone through for a while now. Here’s the short version:

I’ve been reading your HTH forum recently, and my impression was that you recommended that for a given exercise, you stop the exercise when you can’t add more weight for the prescribed number of reps.

Here, I am getting the impression that you recommend only going up to your max force set. Have your thoughts changed, or have I misunderstood something?

Thank you for your time.[/quote]

I always mentionned that you should stop when you start to grind a rep. Meaning that you work up to the max weight you can still dominate.

[Thy1]

Thib, here is a quote from your older post describing different types of ramping :

“Truncated ramp: just like a regular ramp as far as the size of the jumps, but stop the exercise at the max force set (the max weight with which you still accelerate the weight for all reps). This is best used during a deloading phase or when doing maintenance work”

Only there you metnioned ramping to max force set. Regular ramp suggested always going further than max force set. Do I miss something ?

I’m not trying to argue, just want to understand.

[octagon]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Very interesting.

What do you mean by “80-88% is best” - should you not ramp to max weight of the day for the prescribed reps ?

Are you saying it might be better to ramp to say around 88% (still fast weight) for 2 reps and stay there for multiple sets until the speed slows down ?[/quote]

That is one approach to it.[/quote]

Which method - ramp to max weight OR ramp to max force weight (80-88%) should be used most of the time in training ? Should they be used equally or it might be more reasonable to spare yourself of neural fatigue from max weigts too often and use lesser weight more explosively and for more sets most of the time?
[/quote]

Ramp to max force weight. You can then add more sets as long as they remain max force sets (all reps are powerful).

Unless you compete in either powerlifting or olympic lifting there is actually no reason to work up to a true maximum. But if you choose to do so, only do it once a month and only if you feel 100% certain that you will beat a record.[/quote]

I don’t understand… How do I make progress if I don’t challenge myself for new records ?

For example, I ramp to a weight of around 88% for 2 reps, that means I should do 2 reps althoguh I could do at least 3, maybe 4-5 with some staggering at the sticking point.

Is it actually effective stopping short of any challenge ?

It’s also tough mentally because I’d think that I’m not pushing myself to become stronger!

[/quote]

Are you getting stronger now? In 8 weeks of training like this my bench improved from 167.5kg to 200kg… how much did you gain in the past 8 weeks?

You seem to make several mistakes:

1. You shoot for a certain percentage… don’t try to hit 80, 85 or 88%… I just gave you these to give you an idea of what type of weight you should shoot for. In reality you work up to the maximum weight you can still dominate for the prescribed number of reps.

2. In all my years as an olympic lifter I never maxed out more than once a month. Most elite lifters (except for Bulgarians) generally stick to sets of 2-3 reps with 80-85% of their max. Rarely do they go to the max, yet they steadily increase strength.

3. YES you should strive to lift more weight every time you hit the gym. But if last week you lifted 90kg for 3 reps and dominated those 3 reps, and this week you lifted 95kg for 3 reps, still dominating the weight, YOU ARE STRONGER even though you didn’t have to work up to your max.

4. IT IS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH WEIGHT THERE IS ON THE BAR. But rather about HOW MUCH FORCE YOU PRODUCE ON EACH REP. Force = mass x acceleration. The most force is produced by accelerating (dominating) loads of 80-88% of your max, NOT by lifting maximum weights slowly.

5. A 100kg bench press (what you are lifting I believe) is very weak. I train a 52kg, 48 years old woman who lifts close to that. If your way of doing things was so good, you’d be a lot stronger by now. YES challenge yourself… YES try to lift more weight… but only use a weight that you can dominate. Try to INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT THAT YOU CAN DOMINATE. Letting your ego dictate how you train is the best way of getting zero results.[/quote]

Thib how do you get so strong? You and your clients seem to be able to use weights that most average lifters could train their entire lives and still not come close to . Is there ‘‘secrets’’ to super strength, or is it just a combination of workout nutrition, the technqiues you’ve been describing and a solid work ethic? I realize this very broad question but it is something im curious about

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]octagon wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Very interesting.

What do you mean by “80-88% is best” - should you not ramp to max weight of the day for the prescribed reps ?

Are you saying it might be better to ramp to say around 88% (still fast weight) for 2 reps and stay there for multiple sets until the speed slows down ?[/quote]

That is one approach to it.[/quote]

Which method - ramp to max weight OR ramp to max force weight (80-88%) should be used most of the time in training ? Should they be used equally or it might be more reasonable to spare yourself of neural fatigue from max weigts too often and use lesser weight more explosively and for more sets most of the time?
[/quote]

Ramp to max force weight. You can then add more sets as long as they remain max force sets (all reps are powerful).

Unless you compete in either powerlifting or olympic lifting there is actually no reason to work up to a true maximum. But if you choose to do so, only do it once a month and only if you feel 100% certain that you will beat a record.[/quote]

I don’t understand… How do I make progress if I don’t challenge myself for new records ?

For example, I ramp to a weight of around 88% for 2 reps, that means I should do 2 reps althoguh I could do at least 3, maybe 4-5 with some staggering at the sticking point.

Is it actually effective stopping short of any challenge ?

It’s also tough mentally because I’d think that I’m not pushing myself to become stronger!

[/quote]

Are you getting stronger now? In 8 weeks of training like this my bench improved from 167.5kg to 200kg… how much did you gain in the past 8 weeks?

You seem to make several mistakes:

1. You shoot for a certain percentage… don’t try to hit 80, 85 or 88%… I just gave you these to give you an idea of what type of weight you should shoot for. In reality you work up to the maximum weight you can still dominate for the prescribed number of reps.

2. In all my years as an olympic lifter I never maxed out more than once a month. Most elite lifters (except for Bulgarians) generally stick to sets of 2-3 reps with 80-85% of their max. Rarely do they go to the max, yet they steadily increase strength.

3. YES you should strive to lift more weight every time you hit the gym. But if last week you lifted 90kg for 3 reps and dominated those 3 reps, and this week you lifted 95kg for 3 reps, still dominating the weight, YOU ARE STRONGER even though you didn’t have to work up to your max.

4. IT IS NOT ABOUT HOW MUCH WEIGHT THERE IS ON THE BAR. But rather about HOW MUCH FORCE YOU PRODUCE ON EACH REP. Force = mass x acceleration. The most force is produced by accelerating (dominating) loads of 80-88% of your max, NOT by lifting maximum weights slowly.

5. A 100kg bench press (what you are lifting I believe) is very weak. I train a 52kg, 48 years old woman who lifts close to that. If your way of doing things was so good, you’d be a lot stronger by now. YES challenge yourself… YES try to lift more weight… but only use a weight that you can dominate. Try to INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT THAT YOU CAN DOMINATE. Letting your ego dictate how you train is the best way of getting zero results.[/quote]

Thib how do you get so strong? You and your clients seem to be able to use weights that most average lifters could train their entire lives and still not come close to . Is there ‘‘secrets’’ to super strength, or is it just a combination of workout nutrition, the technqiues you’ve been describing and a solid work ethic? I realize this very broad question but it is something im curious about

[/quote]

Not all my clients are that strong. Some are lifting average weights. But I do quite a few people who are lifting very impressive numbers.

All strength coaches are like that. Do you honestly think that we would use our weak clients as examples?

Seriously, the higher you become on the ‘trainer reputation scale’ the more you get to work with individuals with a lot of potential. Obviously these guys will progress faster.

All of my personal clients normally gain a lot of strength in a short period of time… but it always sounds better to say that one client went from a 350lbs bench press up to a 400lbs bench press than to say that a guy went from a 150lbs bench press up to a 200lbs bench press!

[Christian_Thibaudeau]

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib, here is a quote from your older post describing different types of ramping :

“Truncated ramp: just like a regular ramp as far as the size of the jumps, but stop the exercise at the max force set (the max weight with which you still accelerate the weight for all reps). This is best used during a deloading phase or when doing maintenance work”

Only there you metnioned ramping to max force set. Regular ramp suggested always going further than max force set. Do I miss something ?

I’m not trying to argue, just want to understand.[/quote]

Ramp up to max force, only go up for a max when you are 100% CERTAIN that you can beat a record. THAT’S IT… nothing complicated there.

Once you reach max force you can either:

1. Perform more sets in that zone, stopping when the weight is not dominated anymore
2. Drop the weight by around 10-15% and perform a max reps set
3. Drop the weight down by around 10-15% and WORK YOUR WAY BACK UP
4. Stop the exercise

[ds1973]

CT, one question to clarify. I’ve read two scenarios:

1. Main lift: Start out with “feel sets”, maybe some twitch reps to activate. Then start at about 50% of 1RM, increasing by about 10% each time. Stop on last set when not dominating the weight - done with the exercise.

2. Start out with “feel sets”, maybe some twitch reps to activate. Then start at about 50% of 5 rep max, increasing by about 10% each time. Stop on last set when not dominating the weight. THEN, DROP the weight about 20 pounds for 5 x 5 straight sets - Stop at 5th set or if reps become grinding (not explosive).

So, in a week where the main lifts might be OHP, Squat, Incline Bench, Would you use # 2 only used during a spec phase for the muscles targeted by that main lift (eg: OHP only) or would you use it for the main lift of EVERY exercise during the week (OHP, Squats AND Incline Bench)?

[TMT]

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Heck, at Westside Barbell they have dozens of guys who bench 600-700+ and half of their bench pressing is done with weights of 45-50% for sets of 3 super fast reps. Why would using 80-85% not work for you?[/quote]

To Thy.

Westsiders do about 80 lifts a month (2 reps x 10/week) with about 50% of max (speed work) and only about 12 lifts a month with 90+% (3 lifts/week). Just like Thib said: just apply as much force as possible to the bar.

…and yes it works, no matter is your best bench 100kg or 300kg. Trust me… I’ve been there. Work hard, but be smart about it!

[TMT]

^EDIT:

[quote]TMT wrote:
Westsiders do about 80 lifts a month (2 reps x 10/week) with about 50% of max (speed work) and only about 12 lifts a month with 90+% (3 lifts/week). Just like Thib said: just apply as much force as possible to the bar.[/quote]

To be more precise…
For DE squat WSB does 10-12 sets of 2 reps, with about 50-60% (of contest max) /week
For DE bench it’s 8-10 sets of 3 reps, with about 50% (of contest max) or 60% of raw max

90+% weights are used only for about 3 lifts on max effort days (ramping the weight up), once a week for some sort of bench exercise + once a week for pull/GM/squat.

On top of that some do about 4-6 lifts/month with 90+% on squat/benchpress on DE-days (dynamic effort).

…I posted this just to give you guys an idea how much elite powerlifters concentrate on max force production and how much for max weights (still emphasizing the force).