[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
…
And yes I am elitest, yes I consider myself to be more intelligent than the average person in the UK. Yes I consider myself to be more succesful than the average person in the UK.
…[/quote]
This is completely off-topic, but I’ve heard countless people tell me, often explicitly, that they considered themselves as possessing above-average intelligence. A great many of them were not particularly bright, in my opinion.
On the contrary, only two people have ever told me that they seriously considered themselves to be of below-average intelligence. And perhaps not surprisingly, I found both of them to very thoughtful, insightful people.
I know plenty of people that are way more clever than me, I also have a reasonable idea where I sit compared to the average. Just because someone disagrees with you on a fundemental point doesn’t make them stupid. But that is an easier argument for you to make of course.
For you guys that are saying arguing that you should be carrying assault rifles around just because the President has armed guards just to ensure that its fair, do you have any idea how dumb an argument that is?
Push, please note that I fully support your wifes right to carry a gun on her trip, she is not breaking any laws and if you and her feel that is a way for you both to feel more safe then fine, that is your right and your decision. I have said that all along.
My point is and has been all along that I feel that if your country as a whole had a different attitude to guns then your wife would be safer with or without her sp101.
But as you don’t seem to be able to get that and want to argue everything but that point then there really is no point continuing to flog the dead horse.
Sifu, I have repeatedly stated that I am not a labour supporter. I don’t care that the mail is the second highest read paper, that means nothing. The sun has the highest readership and it is equally crap. The only difference is that the mail takes itself seriously whereas the Sun knows that it is a comic.
The problem I have with the mail is that it is badly written, badly researched, alarmist, xenophobic rubbish.
But as we have seen, you also refer to BNP literature so perhaps we shouldn’t be suprised that a hateful racist newspaper is to your taste.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I know plenty of people that are way more clever than me, I also have a reasonable idea where I sit compared to the average. Just because someone disagrees with you on a fundemental point doesn’t make them stupid. But that is an easier argument for you to make of course. [/quote]
Why not. Anytime someone disagrees with you liberals on the issues of immigration, religion or trailer parks you call them a racist or a xenophobe.
[quote]
For you guys that are saying arguing that you should be carrying assault rifles around just because the President has armed guards just to ensure that its fair, do you have any idea how dumb an argument that is? [/quote]
We are not allowed to have true assault rifles now. But that isn’t good enough for people like Joe Biden, he doesn’t want people to be able to own weapons that look like assault rifles.
It is not about being fair because the President’s bodyguards have them. The issue is they have them because they want to be able to fight off armed attackers. Which is the same reason why we need them. The law isn’t stopping gangsters from getting and using them, but it puts civilians at a serious disadvantage when they do.
Here watch this. It’s about Los Zetas the most powerful gang in Mexico. A gang which has sent armed hit teams across the border to attack Americans. This is the kind of threat ordinary civilians face here and in Mexico.
Here is the part about two American girls who were kidnapped by the Mexican police and given to Los Zetas. If I had a daughter I would never allow her south of the border.
[quote]
Push, please note that I fully support your wifes right to carry a gun on her trip, she is not breaking any laws and if you and her feel that is a way for you both to feel more safe then fine, that is your right and your decision. I have said that all along.
My point is and has been all along that I feel that if your country as a whole had a different attitude to guns then your wife would be safer with or without her sp101.
But as you don’t seem to be able to get that and want to argue everything but that point then there really is no point continuing to flog the dead horse. [/quote]
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu, I have repeatedly stated that I am not a labour supporter. I don’t care that the mail is the second highest read paper, that means nothing. The sun has the highest readership and it is equally crap. The only difference is that the mail takes itself seriously whereas the Sun knows that it is a comic. [/quote]
Come on now, the Sun’s page three uncovers a very serious subject everyday.
[quote]
The problem I have with the mail is that it is badly written, badly researched, alarmist, xenophobic rubbish. [/quote]
Coming from a British liberal that accusation means nothing. You bitches will call anyone disagree with you a racist.
Here is a good example of how absurdly easy it is to get the British accusing people of racism or xenophobia.
A gypsy camp is like a poor mans trailer park, yet when a village police force pointed out that building one in the village would cause an increase in crime they were accused of racism.
Here is another one. Where the man calling everyone who doesn’t want a gypsy/travlers camp in their backyard a racist lives in a manor house at the end of a private road.
How the views of 3,100 middle England residents on gipsy camps were rejected… because they were deemed ‘racist’
[quote]
But as we have seen, you also refer to BNP literature so perhaps we shouldn’t be suprised that a hateful racist newspaper is to your taste. [/quote]
Unlike you I follow what is going on in Britain. The BNP has made significant gains in the most recent elections. They might very well put take a seat in the European parliamentary elections this year. So I am following what they are up to. Why not?
Again you have accused the Mail of hateful racism but you have yet to provide one example so we can see for ourselves what it is exactly that has brought this terrible accusation on them.
You liberals would do very well to study the story of the boy who called wolf.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
If you want to know why her life is of less value, then you could look at the fact that your wife being killed would not affect the global stock exchange, or be liable to cause race riots or a war or cost the US tax payer a significant ammount of money.[/quote]
Not the Constitution, but still an important document in the US: the Declaration of Independence -
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Push, please note that I fully support your wifes right to carry a gun on her trip, she is not breaking any laws and if you and her feel that is a way for you both to feel more safe then fine, that is your right and your decision. I have said that all along.
Alright, fair nuf, how 'bout a hypothetical? What if she WAS breaking a law by carrying a gun on her trip but felt that:
a) the law was unjust and violated her Second Amendment rights
and/or
b) her security concerns were greater than her concerns of being arrested for law breaking
Would you still fully support my wife’s right to carry a gun on her trip? Or is your full support somewhat shallow or rather not all that full at all when it comes right down to it?[/quote]
Then I wouldn’t support her decision but at the end of the day it does come down to personal choice.
If a gun is what it takes for you and her to feel comfortable then that is your decision. Everyone has to take decisions like that for themselves.
Given a similar situation with my wife here in Mexico, if she was due to go on a road trip where I felt that it was dangerous, I would go with her or ensure that she had someone with her that I trusted to protect her.
I guess you would see this as a weakness, pandering to the criminals and infringing the freedom of your wife when you could resolve it by giving her a gun. Personally, I would not put my wife in a situation where I would consider that she might need a gun to protect herself.
This is two different approaches to a similar situation brought about by the fact that we have different upbringings.
I am not anti gun per-se. I used to shoot in competitions and I have no problem with people who want to go out hunting. I just don’t see guns for home protection as a viable long term solution to the problems of crime. I also don’t think that keeping guns to protect oneself against the government makes a lot of sense. Maybe this makes me an idealist and you are more realist or pragmatic.
In reality were we to meet I am sure that we would have far more that we agreed on than we disagreed on, particularly when it comes to training, fitness and so on.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Why not. Anytime someone disagrees with you liberals on the issues of immigration, religion or trailer parks you call them a racist or a xenophobe.
[/quote]
Hearing you calling me a liberal is hilarious, I had a girlfriend in the UK who used to refer to me as ‘tory boy’ because my views were so much more right wing than hers.
I call people racist and xenephobic when the use literature from known groups of racists and xenophobics to support their arguments.
I will watch these when I get home (no youtube at work) but it does seem to me that you love the whole sensationalist thing.
You really do seem to live your life convinced that danger lies around every corner.
Reading what you have written, you seem to take pride in how dangerous the area you live in is. Your every post contains links to lurid sensationalist tales of stabbings, glassings and whatnot. You view as sheep people who actually get on with their lives and make the best of their situation without wanting to dig a bunker and fill it with supplies.
I feel sorry for you that you have built your whole viewpoint around the more extreme outputs of the media fear machine. You are likely to miss out on a lot due to these irrational fears.
No, I state that you are unlikely to change your viewpoint and can’t even seem to argue the point in hand, I am unlikely to change my viewpoint therefore continuing to argue is just flogging a dead horse.
[quote]Loose Tool wrote: Not the Constitution, but still an important document in the US: the Declaration of Independence -
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
pushharder wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Push, please note that I fully support your wifes right to carry a gun on her trip, she is not breaking any laws and if you and her feel that is a way for you both to feel more safe then fine, that is your right and your decision. I have said that all along.
Alright, fair nuf, how 'bout a hypothetical? What if she WAS breaking a law by carrying a gun on her trip but felt that:
a) the law was unjust and violated her Second Amendment rights
and/or
b) her security concerns were greater than her concerns of being arrested for law breaking
Would you still fully support my wife’s right to carry a gun on her trip? Or is your full support somewhat shallow or rather not all that full at all when it comes right down to it?
Then I wouldn’t support her decision but at the end of the day it does come down to personal choice. [/quote]
So basically you think it is perfectly alright to criminalize people who merely want to be able to protect themselves from violent crime.
[quote]
If a gun is what it takes for you and her to feel comfortable then that is your decision. Everyone has to take decisions like that for themselves.
Given a similar situation with my wife here in Mexico, if she was due to go on a road trip where I felt that it was dangerous, I would go with her or ensure that she had someone with her that I trusted to protect her. [/quote]
If you come across a bunch of armed bandidos in the middle of nowhere like Baha you won’t be any use in protecting her or yourself without a gun.
[quote]
I guess you would see this as a weakness, pandering to the criminals and infringing the freedom of your wife when you could resolve it by giving her a gun. Personally, I would not put my wife in a situation where I would consider that she might need a gun to protect herself. [/quote]
But you moved her and your daughter to Mexico. Okay. You are clueless homeboy. White girls can be a commodity down there.
I have a friend who when he was in the Marine Corp was stationed at camp Pendleton in San Diego. He told me a lot about how they used to go over to Tijuana on leave and the crazy shit that would happen to them over there.
One thing that always stuck in mind that he said is that camp Pendleton would lose one marine a week. Because every week there would be a marine who went over to Tijuana to party and he was never seen again.
Mexico is not a safe country to live in.
[quote]
This is two different approaches to a similar situation brought about by the fact that we have different upbringings.
I am not anti gun per-se. I used to shoot in competitions and I have no problem with people who want to go out hunting. I just don’t see guns for home protection as a viable long term solution to the problems of crime. I also don’t think that keeping guns to protect oneself against the government makes a lot of sense. Maybe this makes me an idealist and you are more realist or pragmatic. [/quote]
Why on earth would you think that people defending themselves is not a deterrent to crime? I have first hand experience using and watching guns used to deter crime. I know they work.
People not being able to protect themselves from their government makes absolutely no sense. The historical record is full of governments that were once benign but eventually became tyrannies. You are completely in denial of history.
Just look at how much of a police state Britain has become in the last 12 years. Once the 1997 gun ban went into effect there was no stopping the government from increasingly eroding freedoms and long established principles of law. In the last 12 years Britain has become a police state.
[quote]
In reality were we to meet I am sure that we would have far more that we agreed on than we disagreed on, particularly when it comes to training, fitness and so on. [/quote]
Oh we probably do have a lot in common and would get along fine. But you are very closed minded on this issue.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Sifu, I have repeatedly stated that I am not a labour supporter. I don’t care that the mail is the second highest read paper, that means nothing. The sun has the highest readership and it is equally crap. The only difference is that the mail takes itself seriously whereas the Sun knows that it is a comic.
Come on now, the Sun’s page three uncovers a very serious subject everyday.
[/quote]
The girls in the Sun are not even that attractive most days. It did used to brighten up my paper round when I was a kid though.
So your only argument is that it is not racist, you have no problem with my criticisms about it being badly written and sensationalist (which is of course what we were talking about.)
The problem is that the letter was racist by the definition of the law.
Just change the word Gypsy to Muslim or Black and you will see why. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t want a travellers camp at the foot of my garden, when I was growing up we had real problems with illegal travellers camps in the area. My views on this are racist because I am stereotyping a whole group of people by the actions of some members of the group.
I have no problem in believing that 3,100 middle England residents do hold extremely racist views. I grew up in Hertfordshire which is right next to Bedfordshire and I spent a fair amount of time in Bedfordshire. I used to compete in one day eventing in Potton which is mentioned in this article. And I am comfortable that were I to sit down with the people quoted in the article and have chat with them, within 5-10 minutes they would be expressing views that everyone on here would see as racist.
[quote]
Unlike you I follow what is going on in Britain. The BNP has made significant gains in the most recent elections. They might very well put take a seat in the European parliamentary elections this year. So I am following what they are up to. Why not?
Again you have accused the Mail of hateful racism but you have yet to provide one example so we can see for ourselves what it is exactly that has brought this terrible accusation on them.
You liberals would do very well to study the story of the boy who called wolf. [/quote]
The BNP has links to extremist racism, they publish literature telling the Darkies to go home, they also have links to football hooliaganism.
On to the Mail
Here’s a nice little story about how the cuddly cosy daily mail decided to ditch a story about the anguishing rape of a 39 year old woman because she was black.
“The piece was shown to another executive whose response was that the victim, 39 and unmarried, must have been desperate for sex anyway and must have fantasised about being raped”.
I’ll give you another example, compare the headlines in the mail and the independent to the release of a government report on migration.
The mail lead with:
“Influx of immigrants costs every UK household £350 a year”.
The independent went with a slightly less inflamatory:
“Home Office: migrants work harder, earn more and pay more taxes than Britons”.
How about a list of 80 headlines written to cast a negative view on the poles?
18-5-06 The New Slave Trade
19-5-06 Are Young Polish Workers Robbing their Country of its Future?
23-8-06 How Many More Immigrants can Britain take?
7-11-06 Britain is Country of Choice for many “Feckless” Poles
8-11-06 Polish Borat claims Groping Women is Normal in Eastern Europe
2-12-06 5000 Polish Babies born in UK every year
12-1-07 Bank to Woo Polish Immigrants with Bilingual Branches
2-2-07 One in Five of UK Home Buyers are Polish
8-2-07 Six Million Immigrants Descend on Britain
12-2-07 The True Number of Poles living in Britain - 600,000
12-2-07 Bosses choosing Committed Foreign Workers over “lazy British”, says CBI
24-2-07 Poles Warn: We’ll deport Brits who fall ill
11-3-07 Pole Chancers: Exclusive Fake Charity from Gdansk make a Fortune Ripping
off Big-Hearted Scots
13-3-07 How Poland is Struggling to Plug the Leaks
13-3-07 Why 10m Britons will be from a Minority by 2027
30-3-07 Heinz means Tripe to Poles pining for Home
31-3-07 British Workers Priced out by Wave of Low-Paid Migrants
8-4-07 Brothers May Face Trial over Polish Con
9-4-07 Poachers Beware! Flak Jacket Squad Rule Riverside (inset picture shows reprimanded Pole)
3-5-07 The Superloo where Polish Migrants are Fighting to Spend the Night for 20p
3-5-07 Revealed: Immigrants Swell Population of British Towns by 10pc
14-5-07 Government stats: Disbelief at the Great Migrant Con
20-5-07 What About the Missing Migrants? (Instigated by Jose Mourinho’s missing dog)
23-5-07 Please Come Home, Poland begs its Builders
28-5-07 1 in 4 Eastern Bloc Migrants wants to stay here for Good
7-6-07 East European Influx could Trigger Race Riots in Villages
14-6-07 Teenagers Could be told to Bond with Immigrants
19-6-07 Polish Cleaner to be Brilliant Concert Pianist
19-6-07 Polish Workers denied Jobs because they can’t Speak Polish
20-6-07 Polish Homosexuals facing Persecution in Exodus to UK
22-6-07 Poland’s Nazi Taunt inflames EU Summit
23-6-07 Polish Premier’s Attack on Germans show the Wounds still Fester
25-6-07 East Europe Migrants bring Surge in Pickpocketing Crime
28-6-07 Polish Immigrants take £1bn out of the UK economy
05-7-07 We’re never going home…300,000 Polish Migrants Plan to Stay
Permanently in UK
17-7-07 Wanted by Police, Polish Speakers to Answer 999 Calls
29-7-07 Biggest Threat to Britain’s Carp is Eastern European Migrants
02-8-07 Eastern Europeans Cause 15% of Fatal Accidents on Rural Roads
08-8-07 Three Dead as Bus Taking Polish Workers to Britain Crashes
10-8-07 Widow Fills out Husband’s Death Certificate - Because Polish Doctor could
not Speak English
11-8-07 Crack Open the Vodka…It’s a Pub for the Poles
14-8-07 More than 8000 Eastern Europeans arrive in Britain Every Day
14-8-07 Eastern European’s Roads are the Most Dangerous on the Continent
14-8-07 Foreigners Commit 20% of Crime in London, says Police
03-9-07 Eastern European Immigrants with Cancer could Swamp the NHS
16-9-07 Migrants sending more than £1m Child Benefits to Eastern Europe every
Month
19-9-07 If the BBC’s worried about Immigration, can we have an Honest Debate
about it?
20-9-07 Peterborough: A City Crumbling under Pressure from Immigration
29-9-07 Revealed: the Racial Tensions behind Slovak Mother’s Pipe Attack on Boy
30-9-07 MPs fear C4 Documentary on the Cost of Immigrants will fuel Race Hatred
4-10-07 Ring-Road Tramp who’s become a Cult Hero thanks to Facebook
8-10-07 Sainsbury’s says Immigrants have “Better Work Ethic” than Britons
11-10-07 Immigrants here for Good: Half of Poles Plans to Stay in UK
17-10-07 Influx of Immigrants costs Every UK Household £350 a Year
17-10-07 Many Immigrants earning more than their British Counterparts
26-10-07 Top of Class in England - but Polish Boy Goes Home for Better Education
26-10-07 Immigration Influx from Eastern Europe is Driving Down Wages
31-10-07 Migrant Jobs Fiasco: Official Estimate Goes from 800,000 to 1.5m in 24 hrs
1-11-07 Revealed: the Shocking True Cost of Immigration
2-11-07 Pizza Worker taped Boss Sacking Him because “Poles are Cheaper”,
Tribunal hears
16-11-07 Half a Million Migrants pour into Britain in a Year, but 200,000 Leave
20-11-07 Warning Signs go up to stop Poles Stealing River Fish for Christmas Dinner
20-11-07 Revealed: 750,000 Migrants from Eastern Europe have come to work in
Britain in just 3 Years
26-11-07 Waking up to the Reality of Migration
26-11-07 Polish Baby Boom: Fears for NHS & Schools as 1000 Polish children are
born every Month
9-12-07 Bosses pick “Diligent” Poles ahead of British Workers
11-12-07 80% of new Jobs have gone to Migrants since Labour came to Power
11-12-07 Drive-In Dentists: Chain will hire Eastern European Staff to Offer Cut-Price
Treatment
26-12-07 Poland Sends a Private Plane a Month to get back Criminals who have fled
to UK
30-12-07 Skilled and Highly Motivated Poles push British Graduates to back of the
Jobs Queue
4.1.8 Poles Working in Britain send Home Record £1.8bn to their Families
10.1.8 Immigrant Pupil Numbers rise 50% since 2005, with 20,000 joining last year
14.1.8 Britain has to Build 2 Million new Homes - Just to Cope with Growing Numbers of Immigrants
16.1.8 Don’t Blame the Immigrants - It’s British Children who are Trouble in Class
18.1.8 One in Every 4 Poles in Britain plans to Stay, says Survey
20.1.8 As Poles Flood into Britain, the Story of the Family who went in the
Opposite Direction
29.1.8 Polish Migrants Living in Britain claiming £21m. in Child Benefits for
Children left behind
7.2.8 Chief Constables Called to Crisis Summit with Jacqui Smith on Immigrant
Crimewave
13.2.8 More than 860 Immigrants Enter Britain Every Day
16.2.8 Now Poles begin Mass Desertion of Britain as Soaring Prices send them
Home
Of course this is not new, what about a headline from 1938
?The way stateless Jews from Germany are pouring in from every port of this country is becoming an outrage the number of aliens entering the country through back door a problem to which the Daily Mail has repeatedly pointed? Daily Mail,20 August 1938.
Or go back further ?They fought, they jostled to the foremost places at the gangways… When the Relief Committee passed by they hid their gold and fawned and whined in broken English asked for money for their train fare.? This is the Daily Mail, February 3rd writing about Jewish immigrants in 1900.
Or how about the mail’s support for Oswald Mosley ?Hurrah for the Black Shirts?.
Or Lord Rothmere’s regular meetings with Hitler during the 30s?
This one you will really love. A kid who topped himself because he was having problems comming to terms with being gay, how does the Mail report it?
Gifted pupil killed himself ‘after his school sidelined Christianity for alternative religions’
If you want a real laugh, just do a search on the Mail’s website for the word Muslim. Nice example of balanced reporting!
[quote]Sifu wrote:
So basically you think it is perfectly alright to criminalize people who merely want to be able to protect themselves from violent crime.
[/quote]
No, I was asked whether I would support her breaking the law if the law was different. I answered that no I wouldn’t support her breaking the law. I have not criminalised her, in this case, the law would have criminalised her.
Have you ever visited Mexico? It seems like you have based your idea of mexican on a bad movie. By the way, where is Baha?
[quote]But you moved her and your daughter to Mexico. Okay. You are clueless homeboy. White girls can be a commodity down there.
[/quote]
No dumbo, they were both born here.
Tijuana is not a very representative example of Mexico. Most of the problems in Tijuana are due to the gringo tourists (same as the problems in Amsterdam are mainly due to the Brits.)
I would be very suprised if your friends information wasn’t a total exageration, do you not think that if 50 odd Marines were disapearing every year that just maybe there would be an investigation and they would stop them from heading down there?
This just goes to underline the fact that you really do not question what you read or what you are told.
You keep harking back to 1997 but I have repeatedly shown you that this is a total nonsense. You obviously have no concept of what Britain is really like, have you every actually left Detroit?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Loose Tool wrote: Not the Constitution, but still an important document in the US: the Declaration of Independence -
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Historical and important as it was in 1215 when it was sealed, while it limited the absolute powers of the king, it preserved feudal rights, so it isn’t really analogous. I was hoping the brits would have something that stated all men are created equal. But I suppose in a country ruled by a monarch, and governed in part by Lords, that’s wishful thinking.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Cock, you stated this subject especially the American gun culture intrigues/interests you and you certainly spend plenty of time here discussing it.
In light of that I strongly urge you to read “Unintended Consequences” by John Ross. I think it might satisfy a lot of the curiosity you seem to display. It’s a very thick book. Do you like to read books?[/quote]
I love to read, I wish I had more time to but with my work and training comitments coupled with having a young kid it is tough. Seems like it is out of print at the moment and getting the harback to Mexico will be a bit pricy. I will have to look and see if I can find it anywhere as an E-Book.
