I was just thinking about drope snatches (snatch balance) and I remembered what J. DeFranco has said. The faster you get down, quicker and higher you will be able to jump.
So drop snatch would be perfect exercise for practising quick descent.
Am I right with this one?
Here is my uneducated guess. In the drop snatch, you’re actually pushing against the bar to get down in the hole so I’m not sure that you are necessarily training your lower body to lower quickly, which is what you would need in jumping. Jerks might be a better way to teach quick descent followed by rapid upward explosion.
Altitude drops and depth jumps would be even better…
and band propelled altitude drops and depth jumps (aka as AMT) would notch up the eccentric speed even more… 
[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
Altitude drops and depth jumps would be even better…
and band propelled altitude drops and depth jumps (aka as AMT) would notch up the eccentric speed even more… :)[/quote]
my gf read that out loud to me…
that was the sexiest thing i ever heard her say lol
I think power jerks would be the most benificial weightlifting exercise
CCJ are you still training DB Hammer? How is your vert now?
OK, I agree that jerks are a better exercise for vertical. But as far as pushing yourself underneath the bar, I think that it’s more of a jump under a bar, and that your lower body does most of the action.
But then again, it’s very likely that I’m wrong.
Drop snatches would not be as effective as the other lifts mentioned here because in the drop snatch you drop into the hole. You don’t jump from an ass-to-grass squat, you jump from a 1/4-1/8 squat.
Can somebody give me a real dumb description of the drop snatch? I felt like a sloth with polio when I went to the gym and tried it. Is it like a snatch grip jerk initated from bar resting on the traps?
I wanted to write an explanation, but I think this is better:-)
Yes. Ideally the bar (resting on the traps) shouldn’t move up at all. At the USAW certification we practiced while the coach held a stick an inch or so above the bar and we had to try to perform the move without hitting the stick. If the move is difficult, first do a pressing snatch balance where you do a behind neck military press while performing a full squat. After that it becomes easier to adjust to full-on dropping into the bottom (catch) position the same time the arms fully extend.
By the way, triple extension moves would have to be the best exercises for increasing vertical. Snatch balance doesn’t involve this at all, so while it does train the body to initiate movement quickly and stabilize immediately, there isn’t much crossover for a vertical jump. IMO
[quote]knobbers wrote:
CCJ are you still training DB Hammer? How is your vert now?[/quote]
yeah in a conjugate style block sequence
my standing vertical jump has gone up at least 6 inches since the start of year, but I also lost 12lbs or so. I went from 220lbs down to about 205lbs right now. Plus my 100m sprint time went from over 15 secs to around 11secs! I’m heading on down to a lean 180lbs, should be interesting
My goal is still a 42-44 inch standing vert
I can pop my head through the gym ceiling real easy now in a standing VJ. Next goal is the raised ceiling area…
vert clip from a month ago, was 209lbs there, I’m leaner now
right click on link and save first to avoid errors
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/blitzforce/Movies/CCJ_VerticalJumpPR_4Oct05.mpg
[quote]CoolColJ wrote:
knobbers wrote:
CCJ are you still training DB Hammer? How is your vert now?
yeah in a conjugate style block sequence
my standing vertical jump has gone up at least 6 inches since the start of year, but I also lost 12lbs or so. I went from 220lbs down to about 205lbs right now. Plus my 100m sprint time went from over 15 secs to around 11secs! I’m heading on down to a lean 180lbs, should be interesting
My goal is still a 42-44 inch standing vert
I can pop my head through the gym ceiling real easy now in a standing VJ. Next goal is the raised ceiling area…
vert clip from a month ago, was 209lbs there, I’m leaner now
right click on link and save first to avoid errors
http://www.members.optushome.com.au/blitzforce/Movies/CCJ_VerticalJumpPR_4Oct05.mpg
[/quote]
Nice. I’m sure the gym owner loves you 
CCJ
Good looking considering your arm contribution there is minimal. Very slow snap back in the decent, and with the roof there, obviously your follow through is rather restricted.
Also, I always have my athletes do a pre-stretch before the decent…so swing arms up high on the toes, snap down into a quarter squat, and then explode…
At the DB forum I have glanced at recent numbers…
From what I saw (really don’t remember), your Full squat is not 2X BW yet…is this correct? Or, did I miss something… just don’t remember…
I know you are probably a duration dominant athlete already, but with only a 1.5 BW squat, your strength could be much better…
If you are 2X+, I am way off base…
As you approach 180, you will be close…
I know that you need to focus on being more rate dominant, but your base level of strength may also be hindering you…
I am working with a kid from New Hamshire, and like many NE kids, his feet look like they are stapled to the floor… but since August we have gone from 1X BW squat to 1.75X BW squat…
He was very duration dominant, but you know what? He needed the relative strength first…
Now, he has been playing BB 2X / week, and a single plyo session per week, but mostly for the first 8 weeks or so we used DUR and DUR/MAG templates…
He made huge gains…
Obviously he has continued on well with MAG and MAG/Rate templates, but I still think he really made his best gains from the DUR work…
I know this may seem counter intuitive, but without a base level of Strength, all the fancy reactive and rate training won’t add horsepower…
Let’s break it down like Kelly B would:
You can get a fancy suspension (elastic qualities), and throw in a chip (neural qualities), but if your relative strength is still low (HP), you are driving a tricked out 110HP Civic.
Don’t be that guy. Especially since you are so doggone smart…seriously.
I don’t know what your goals are, but the 100m time lowering so much has very much to do with your emphasis… the vertical still has a big relative strength component…like the first 10m… less rate and elastic, more raw power…
Throw some of the baggage overboard and keep pushing some big weight from time to time…
you will see your start and VJ rise quickly…
I promise.
Jumanji
Jumanji -
my reactivity and rate abilities were pretty bad a year ago. I’ve been doing strength and strength speed work (olys, speed squats)for a while previously so that’s not something I lacked relatively speaking
I am a speed/mag dominant person by nature. My main weakness leading into this year were rate, reactivity, excessive bodyfat and weak feet/calves/tibs. And they still are, but getting better off course.
When I was 220+lbs I had a 39 plus inch waist. Right now it’s 35.5inches at 205lbs, but still pretty fat with a BF% of around 17%.
I’m still not really all that reactive, but its better. Well I guess it depends on what type of reactivity. I have good spring and bounce, but I don’t get up a lot higher off a run off one leg etc. Although getting leaner would definitely help
Strength wise I have enough for my goals. Not quite 2xBW, but not that far off either.
Highest recent numbers (haven’t maxed in ages though) all without belt/straps etc - 385lb fullsquat, 315lb frontsquat, 455+lb RDL/oly style clean deadlift, 385lb snatch grip deadlift, 285lb 14inch grip bench (was at 295+ before I started dieting down…) and 195 or so standing military press.
Hardest for me right now is getting lean, but it’s happening slowly.
Not easy gaining strength anyway when your averaging 1400-1900 calories a day
Plymometrics and power cleans is all you need my friend. You overcomplicating the issue. If you can power clean like a beast and you hit them plyo’s like a european soccer stud, I guarantee you will be jumping like a frog in no time.
Velvet Revolver~
There are many collegiate strength coaches who agree with you totally…
In the lower collegiate ranks, I know many, many dopey white guys who clean all the time and do the prescribed plyo program who might disagree with that assessment…
CCJ~
Nice. I thought I must have been wrong about your numbers… you can still get stronger… much.
Ben didn’t snap out of those blocks because he squatted 1.9X his BW…more like 4-5X…
Obviously that is all of our goal…
You are right about the bodyweight… huge factor… all strength is relative.
Keep up the good work.
J
[quote]Jumanji wrote:
Velvet Revolver~
There are many collegiate strength coaches who agree with you totally…
In the lower collegiate ranks, I know many, many dopey white guys who clean all the time and do the prescribed plyo program who might disagree with that assessment…
J[/quote]
The thing about plyo’s though is that you only get results if you go 110 percent. I mean you can NOT half ass it. You have to go balls out, as absolutely intense as you can. You Have to perform every jump as fast and as quick as you can.
ive got a question for Colin and Jumanji cuz i assume you guys know the answer.
should a running one-legged VJ be higher than a standing two-legged VJ?
Yes. Think about olympic high jumpers…
Wuf~
The short answer is yes.
The real answer is that many times it will be much closer if the athlete is strength dominant or power dominant.
A high jumper is a poor example because he is usually a rate dominant athlete who has exceptional elastic qualities.
Unfortunately, not everyone is built the same way… CNS and Elastic Componenets.
Many athletes learn to jump in exactly the same way that was stated above… through squats, deads, and cleans. Well, all of these movements lend themselves to a very high vertical jump… standing vertical.
The standing vertical has a much higher MaxPower and RFD component than a high jump. Think about all of the extra energy you could absorb by bounding along and then jumping…but, you have to be able to efficiently absorb the force, and display it back outward. This is helped by very developed soft and elastic tissues… long achilles, developed plantar flexor muscles throughout feet and ankle, etc.
So, will a high jumper jump higher off a one-leg than off of two? Yes, of course.
Will guys who are good jumpers due to pure raw power be better… probably not.
Someone like Chaz Barkley will probably jump a little higher off of one leg, but most likey jumps similarly off of two feet. Same goes for Shaquille…power.
So, should you jump higher if trained for that? Yes.
But, it isn’t certain. I always jumped almost as high off of to feet… but I am weird…LOL
Hope this helps.
J