Driver Responsibility Fees

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]clip11 wrote:
Its a choice, but not a free choice. A free choice means I can make a decision without having to be threatened with consequence or penalty.

If a robber puts a gun in your face and tells you to empty your pockets, you have a choice…but not a free choice. The choice you make is based out of fear for your life.

If it was a free choice then the robber wouldnt need a gun, he would just walk up to you and ask you to empty your pockets and if you refuse, no harm done, he would just walk away and go ask someone else.

Now this situation is not as extreme, but there is still severe consequence. If you cant afford to pay (because most people would if they had the money unless they were trying to make a point) then your license is suspended. But you still have to go to work, no reasonable person is going to quit their job.

You still have 1000 things to do. So most people will drive. And then if they are stopped and found they owe money they can be arrested.

My ex was in jail for almost a week over $300. So if owing the government $300 (only because they say you do, its not like they loaned it to you or you bought something) is an excuse they can use to take away your freedom, I dont think this is the vision the Founding Fathers of this country had in mine when they wrote the constitution.
[/quote]

The constitution doesn’t grant the right to operate a motor vehicle. To portray otherwise is disgraceful. You seem to have confused your priviledge to operate a vehicle on publicly funded roads for a right.

You want to drive, you obey by the rules. It is pretty simple. These rules in no way infringe on the rights that you do have, but are there to keep those of us driving alongside you safe.

22

[quote]tedro wrote:
clip11 wrote:
Tedro you said insurance companies exist to profit, but state government is not a company. It is not meant to profit itself, but the people. And if its a law thats hurting the people more than helping it should be abolished.

Let me give you a history lesson: What did the american revolution, the french revolution have in common? Taxes! Thats right, the government taking all they could get until people said to hell with this.

We pay sales tax, excessive vehicle registration fees (why should I have to pay $100 for someone to push a few buttons on a keyboard I can do that myself)property taxes, and income taxes.

And let me tell you how the state does people dirty around here. As you know, with the housing crisis, homes are losing value.

The state is charging people the same property taxes as they did when the houses had more value and they refuse to come reassess the property because it would lower taxes and the government wouldnt be able to steal as much money.

And I could go on…

If you have a complaint that taxes in general are too high, then I would agree with you. However, unless you want to live in anarchy taxes are necessary. Many discussions can be had on how these taxes can be collected. Some are unfair and counterintuitive. As a whole, taxes should definitely be lowered from their current state, nationwide.

If you go back to my first post I mentioned one positive to the driver responsibility program is that it can be used to lower taxes in other areas. Like income or capital gains. I would definitely agree that these are too high, and many times can be compared to theft.

I think this program is a fair way to tax as it not only provides revenue, but it also makes the roads a safer place. [/quote]

Thtas bullshit it doesnt make the roads any safer! Ill give you an exception for drunk driving. But other than that how is anyone endangering me or anyone else on the road by having no proof of insurance, driving on an expired license (as far as basic driving is concerned it doesnt make you a better or worse driver either way, I could drive before I had a license), or driving with expired tags?

Thats not making the roads safer, they just want to rob you deaf, dumb, and blind!

23

[quote]tedro wrote:
clip11 wrote:
Its a choice, but not a free choice. A free choice means I can make a decision without having to be threatened with consequence or penalty.

If a robber puts a gun in your face and tells you to empty your pockets, you have a choice…but not a free choice. The choice you make is based out of fear for your life.

If it was a free choice then the robber wouldnt need a gun, he would just walk up to you and ask you to empty your pockets and if you refuse, no harm done, he would just walk away and go ask someone else.

Now this situation is not as extreme, but there is still severe consequence. If you cant afford to pay (because most people would if they had the money unless they were trying to make a point) then your license is suspended. But you still have to go to work, no reasonable person is going to quit their job.

You still have 1000 things to do. So most people will drive. And then if they are stopped and found they owe money they can be arrested.

My ex was in jail for almost a week over $300. So if owing the government $300 (only because they say you do, its not like they loaned it to you or you bought something) is an excuse they can use to take away your freedom, I dont think this is the vision the Founding Fathers of this country had in mine when they wrote the constitution.

The constitution doesn’t grant the right to operate a motor vehicle. To portray otherwise is disgraceful. You seem to have confused your priviledge to operate a vehicle on publicly funded roads for a right.

You want to drive, you obey by the rules. It is pretty simple. These rules in no way infringe on the rights that you do have, but are there to keep those of us driving alongside you safe.[/quote]

What is unconstitutional is the government locking someone up over $300. Or in fact locking someone up because they dont have any money. Since when was being low income a crime? You need to get off your high horse!

24

Lowering a tax in one area shouldnt mean a raised tax in another area.

25

Things like the driver responsibility fee is why people my age are leaving the state in droves. Im 22 so it would be nothing for me to pick up and leave I dont have any kids that I know of. And I watched the news and it was reporting that Michigan was experiencing a steep drop in population.

There are virtually no well paying jobs, and as the older workforce retires (or is laid off nowadays) those jobs are being cut by companies. Detroit was the auto capital of the world, but thats nothing to brag about now.

I grew up in Detroit, born and raised, but this city is nothing more than one big giant ghetto! Violent crime is the order of the day. If I go to a club or an after hour joint, I have to keep weapons in the car, because you never know what might jump off.

Thats why I really dont be bothered with those places, but I go sometime.

The only reason im not afraid to be over here is because i grew up over here so im used to it. But if I was from the suburbs I would be scared to step foot inside the toilet bowl.

But anyway back to my original point. People are leaving this state because of no opportunity. Things like driver responsibility fees arent making it any better. The state of Michigan is broke but they want to put the burden on the people with fees and taxes and more fees and taxes! How can you pay all these fees and taxes if you dont have a job? And Michigan has the highest unemployment rate in the nation.

Thats why people are leaving. A lot of people who used to be in my neighborhood moved out of state. Most moved to Atlanta and a guy across the street moved to Dallas.

The only thing keeping me in Michigan is my family is here. I dont care about the state being broke, I need to use money I work for to the benefit of me and my family and if I have to move to do that so be it.

26

[quote]tedro wrote:

If this was a case where you simply made an honest mistake and accidentally ventured 5-10 mph over, I may agree with you. However, if you really have had a clean record for 10 years, then a little searching tells me you were going at least 21 mph over the limit, which is extremely excessive and dangerous to those drivers around you.

http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/drp.htm
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/license.htm#points

I bet you will think twice before you speed again, and if you do, then the punishment worked.
[/quote]

Wow- you’re really pious, aren’t you?

First of all, I wasn’t doing more than 70 or so - I know what my speed was. Of course, mr. officer tells me his gun clocked me at 82 - total bullshit. I was not doing 82, that’s for sure. I would have gone to court to fight it had I known about the additional 300 dollars in fines - which of course, I was not informed of by the officer, nor was it anywhere on the ticket. So, I figured I made the mistake, I deserve the ticket, I paid it and planned to forget about it - but lo and behold here comes another 300 bucks in fines that was a total surprise.

Also, I was going as fast as anyone else, and I’m in no way, shape or form a “dangerous driver”. Must be nice to never, ever go over the speed limit or possibly just pass a yellow light as it turns red - I’m assuming you’re a perfect driver, seeing how you feel perfectly justified judging my actions - when you weren’t even there.

BTW, I see you live in Kansas. Come drive in metro New York for even 1 fucking week - we’ll see how you do.

Happy motoring…

27

Skynett, I dont see how you drive in New York. I thought traffic was bad here in Detroit, but I hear its nothing compared to New York. I have been to Chicago and being stuck on the Dan Ryan freeway almost drove me insane. If I lived there I would have to use public transportation to stop from killing someone.

28

http://www.ridelust.com/michigan-police-chiefs-admit-speeding-tickets-are-about-money/

29

It’s terrible. Everyone speeds, cuts you off - there isn’t a single day that I drive that some asshole doesn’t do something extremely dangerous right in front of me.

Which is why it’s pissing me off to be tarred with the same brush as dipshits like that, when in my case, that’s just not how it was.

Anyway, bottom-line is I’m all for punishing aggresive, dangerous driving. I’m just against unfair, excessive fees that punish otherwise excellent drivers. In my case I got ONE ticket, first in 10 yrs, and I get hit with this ridiculous fee. It should not be based on points, but instead on how many traffic violations you’ve had in the past - I don’t know - say 5 years…

Edit: That’s a good article, shows a different side of the issue, from a police chief’s POV. Revenue production indeed…

30

And for tedro who is holier than thou why dont you read this

31

And if they didnt have driver responsibility fees they would find another way to steal large amounts of money from you…like making you pay a fee for wearing white after labor day…jaywalking…something mre ridiculous, most likely in the name of “safety”

32

[quote]tedro wrote:
clip11 wrote:
It has nothing to do with being a bad driver and everything with the state wanting to drain the life out of people. Maybe you love to hand over free money to the state just because they ask for it, if you love it that much send me some.

Read these informative articles tedro:

Grits for Breakfast: Bad TX law fills roads with unlicensed drivers, county jails with non-crooks (this one is in Texas)

http://blogpublic.lib.msu.edu/index.php/2008/07/09/michigan-s-driver-responsibility-fee-a-h?blog=5

Encouraging good driving habits drains the lift out of people? Pitiful.

This has everything to do with bad driving, and for the love of God you get 7 points before the fee is even assessed. It has nothing to do with handing over free money. The rules of the road are very clear.

If you don’t want to follow them then don’t drive. If you choose to drive then you must accept the fact that there are repercussions for breaking the laws, and just because you are in a hurry or your gf is unemployed with a kid does not put you above them.

The rules of the road aren’t arbitrary. They truly are their for the safety of all. If a simple ticket does not do enough to deter bad driving then apparently the punishment is not working and needs to be harsher.[/quote]

Er…they already got a ticket which probably came with a fine…so why are they paying another fee? Do you really believe that its to save lives? Its a stealth tax