Drinking and Driving

Off Topic
61

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ Again that is your right not to wear a seatbelt and if you die in a wreck or have to pay a fine that is all you. HOWEVER should a parent be mandated to buckle up a 3 year old?[/quote]

I would say yes due to the lack of logical thought and decision making a 3 year old has.

[/quote]

So a mother driving home from work who gets killed by a drunk driver, the mother has a lack of logical thought and decision making. She didnt decide to drink and drive, she had no say in the situation, she just got killed. [/quote]

haha, I knew that question was a setup! Here is what I would argue that a habitual drunk would drive anyways. So he should be severely punished.

62

Alright men. I’ve got to get some shit done. I’m out.

I will throw this disclaimer out there. I don’t have a wife and kids so my acceptable level of risk is high. Maybe if I did my perspective might be different.

63

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ Again that is your right not to wear a seatbelt and if you die in a wreck or have to pay a fine that is all you. HOWEVER should a parent be mandated to buckle up a 3 year old?[/quote]

I would say yes due to the lack of logical thought and decision making a 3 year old has.

[/quote]

So a mother driving home from work who gets killed by a drunk driver, the mother has a lack of logical thought and decision making. She didnt decide to drink and drive, she had no say in the situation, she just got killed. [/quote]

haha, I knew that question was a setup! Here is what I would argue that a habitual drunk would drive anyways. So he should be severely punished.
[/quote]

:slight_smile: I think that was what DB’s argument was also. Peace and dont work to hard.

64

DJ, care to take a guess how many DUI related injuries you’ve help treat over the years?, lotta zeros I suspect.

I know a few people who drink and drive on a weekly basis, it’s only a matter of time till something bad happens.

65

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
DJ, care to take a guess how many DUI related injuries you’ve help treat over the years?, lotta zeros I suspect.

I know a few people who drink and drive on a weekly basis, it’s only a matter of time till something bad happens. [/quote]

Little story of when I was working ER, EMS brought in a adult son and his mother, drunk driver had basically driven on top of there car. The DD’s front driver side tire was literally on the back of the neck of the son and the mother had the other on her back. Both were barely alive, neck fractures on both. The DD was brought in of course he was basically not injured. The standard panel for trauma’s at this ER was to get toxicology Blood alcohol, urine drug screen etc. The DD had a BAC of over 200 which is basically .2 breath.

I was in the bathroom taking a piss and a DPS trooper who came in for the MVA was standing beside me. I basically just told him what the level was. A little later, I gave the DD his discharge papers and the trooper slapped the cuffs on him right after that in the room.

66

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

I’ve seen a lot of people get DUI’s. I think the punishment often times exacerbates their alcoholism or spurs it on.
[/quote]

You seem to have some fundamental misunderstanding of the cart/horse relationship here.

When a person is alcoholic and drinks Then drives, the trouble begins. See? It has to be there for the trouble to begin. Minus drinking, the driving is fine. Minus the driving, the drinking is still problematic.

Alcoholism = Horse
Problems associated = Cart

Although, as a former drunk, I must admit that it was great to have some kind of excuse like pending legal problems, loss of job or death in the family to get completely saturated for an extended period of time. So if you are simply taking someones word for why they do what they do, I can understand the confusion. The bullshit artistry involved in maintaining the ability to continue behaving like that is at times phenomenal.

67

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ Here is the caveat to your argument, though when the rights of the individual effect the rights of the masses we have a problem.

I really dont care if DB drinks, snorts coke off a hooker, while another one shots heroin in his dick. To me that is his right, HOWEVER the moment he gets in his car to go buy cigarettes he could kill multiple people. This is why we have laws and regulations, it is not a freedom to drive on a road that I also paid for with my taxes. [/quote]

Now that’s a slippery slope. There is an inherent level of risk when living in today’s society. I’m okay with a higher level of risk in some instances.

Maybe we should outlaw lifted trucks due to their high risk for roll over…:smiley: Or maybe handguns, fried food, etc…

Cities and rural american are almost like two different countries. I don’t believe these viewpoints will ever be reconciled. [/quote]

I could see the argument for the lifted truck because technically it could roll over and kill someone besides myself. However most states have regulations and the Govt has regulations on what is considered street legal.

Other arguments again are the fact harming yourself is one thing when you infringe on others is where we need some type of standard.

Now I was born and raised in rural America, and now live in the City. (Beverly Hillbilly’s IRL) Yes there are differences that will never be reconciled, however the fundamental truth of the matter is harm to others not yourself.[/quote]

SUVs and trucks in general have much higher roll over rates.

I get what your saying, but that comes back to my philosophy of greater punishment for personal injury or damage of property. And I’m not saying their shouldn’t be some type of punishment for people that are all over the place on the road. Our current laws are over the top imo.

I’ve seen a lot of people get DUI’s. I think the punishment often times exacerbates their alcoholism or spurs it on.
[/quote]

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, meaning that it gets worse and worse. The exacerbation of it that you see occurs independent of any outside factors. There are certainly some things that can accelerate it, but it’s something that is already accelerating anyways.

This is probably a totally biased statement, given that most people I know who have received DUIs I have met in a 12-step program and given that I’ve lost 5 friends and one family member to drunk driving, but I think that pretty much anyone who gets a DUI is an alcoholic. Those that aren’t are irresponsible to the point where they are dangerous.

You see, if you drive somewhere you are driving away from that place as well. If you KNOW ahead of time that it is illegal to drive drunk, what else could cause someone to take that risk and drive drunk? What else would explain why someone would drink, knowing that they have to drive later? Why else would they risk death or arrest for a few drinks?

68

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
DJ, care to take a guess how many DUI related injuries you’ve help treat over the years?, lotta zeros I suspect.

I know a few people who drink and drive on a weekly basis, it’s only a matter of time till something bad happens. [/quote]

Little story of when I was working ER, EMS brought in a adult son and his mother, drunk driver had basically driven on top of there car. The DD’s front driver side tire was literally on the back of the neck of the son and the mother had the other on her back. Both were barely alive, neck fractures on both. The DD was brought in of course he was basically not injured. The standard panel for trauma’s at this ER was to get toxicology Blood alcohol, urine drug screen etc. The DD had a BAC of over 200 which is basically .2 breath.

I was in the bathroom taking a piss and a DPS trooper who came in for the MVA was standing beside me. I basically just told him what the level was. A little later, I gave the DD his discharge papers and the trooper slapped the cuffs on him right after that in the room. [/quote]

One that didn’t get away, nice.

I’ve seen a few now. The hardest part is seeing the family show up, different faces, same expression.

69

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ Here is the caveat to your argument, though when the rights of the individual effect the rights of the masses we have a problem.

I really dont care if DB drinks, snorts coke off a hooker, while another one shots heroin in his dick. To me that is his right, HOWEVER the moment he gets in his car to go buy cigarettes he could kill multiple people. This is why we have laws and regulations, it is not a freedom to drive on a road that I also paid for with my taxes. [/quote]

Now that’s a slippery slope. There is an inherent level of risk when living in today’s society. I’m okay with a higher level of risk in some instances.

Maybe we should outlaw lifted trucks due to their high risk for roll over…:smiley: Or maybe handguns, fried food, etc…

Cities and rural american are almost like two different countries. I don’t believe these viewpoints will ever be reconciled. [/quote]

I could see the argument for the lifted truck because technically it could roll over and kill someone besides myself. However most states have regulations and the Govt has regulations on what is considered street legal.

Other arguments again are the fact harming yourself is one thing when you infringe on others is where we need some type of standard.

Now I was born and raised in rural America, and now live in the City. (Beverly Hillbilly’s IRL) Yes there are differences that will never be reconciled, however the fundamental truth of the matter is harm to others not yourself.[/quote]

SUVs and trucks in general have much higher roll over rates.

I get what your saying, but that comes back to my philosophy of greater punishment for personal injury or damage of property. And I’m not saying their shouldn’t be some type of punishment for people that are all over the place on the road. Our current laws are over the top imo.

I’ve seen a lot of people get DUI’s. I think the punishment often times exacerbates their alcoholism or spurs it on.
[/quote]

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, meaning that it gets worse and worse. The exacerbation of it that you see occurs independent of any outside factors. There are certainly some things that can accelerate it, but it’s something that is already accelerating anyways.

This is probably a totally biased statement, given that most people I know who have received DUIs I have met in a 12-step program and given that I’ve lost 5 friends and one family member to drunk driving, but I think that pretty much anyone who gets a DUI is an alcoholic. Those that aren’t are irresponsible to the point where they are dangerous.

You see, if you drive somewhere you are driving away from that place as well. If you KNOW ahead of time that it is illegal to drive drunk, what else could cause someone to take that risk and drive drunk? What else would explain why someone would drink, knowing that they have to drive later? Why else would they risk death or arrest for a few drinks?[/quote]

The guys I mentioned who drive drunk are what I consider weekend-a-holics, different breed of cat don’t you think?

Sometimes I wonder which is more dangerous on the road. The weekend binger or the full blown functioning alcoholic.

70

[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:
Lets face it people drive safely over .08 all the time. Booze cruising is a way of life in rural america. Certain people who drink too much or are just plain stupid are the problem.
[/quote]

I can understand general reluctance to have more numerous and severe government-imposed regulations about what one chooses to put into their body, but the fact is that most Canadians and Americans are too fucking stupid to self-regulate and take any personal responsibility in regards to drinking and driving, and I firmly believe that if we removed any BAC guidelines that we’d see an exponential increase in alcohol-related fatalities.

[/quote]
This has nothing to do with people’s right to put things in their own bodies. People can drink as much as they want.

Drunk driving regulations relate to operating a motor vehicle - which is NOT a right. Drink all you want, just don’t drive afterwards.

There is absolutely no need to drink and drive. Putting the safety of other people at risk for a little buzz is extremely selfish and should be punished severly.

71

I just read through this thread, and was convinced by captainoblivious’s statements (and his avatar picture) that he couldn’t be over 22 years old. I went to his profile at the end of reading and saw that he’s 30. I knew plenty of guys with his perspective when I was around 20 years old, but it’s ridiculous to still think that way at his age (or mine).

I don’t understand how people can read a scientific study, or see relevant statistics, and say “yea, that’s cool and all, but I don’t believe it.” But that’s basically his argument. Numbers are for pussies.

72

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I just read through this thread, and was convinced by captainoblivious’s statements (and his avatar picture) that he couldn’t be over 22 years old. I went to his profile at the end of reading and saw that he’s 30. I knew plenty of guys with his perspective when I was around 20 years old, but it’s ridiculous to still think that way at his age (or mine). I don’t understand how people can read a scientific study, or see relevant statistics, and say “yea, that’s cool and all, but I don’t believe it.” But that’s basically his argument. Numbers are for pussies.[/quote]

He just likes a good discussion and I think he likes to keep the argument going.

73

Cell phone usage is just as/or more dangerous that drunk driving, and FAR more prevalent.

I agree that DUI’s should be punished more severely, but I do not agree that a person who passes a field sobriety test and then blows over .08 should be arrested.

74

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:
One famous “torero” was drunk driving (and over speed limit) last month and killed a guy. He may just face 6 months of jail. Long live Spanish laws.

Want to kill someone? Don’t bother with a gun, that will be 10 years. Just get drunk and crush them with your car.[/quote]

I know a guy who did that. He served 18 months.
[/quote]

Kid I went to highschool with, loose acquaintance, did 1 year for each innocent life he took. 5 people in his car, one in the other, and he was the only one out of the 6 who survived.

The father of one of the girls in the car did time after beating this kid within an inch of his life when he got out I hear. Although this is just rumor to me, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true. I guess he has a droopy eye now from the beating.

[/quote]

The girl’s father should have been rewarded, or at least have had any charges dismissed.

A pharmacist I used to work for did a similar thing. He and his wife and young son were about to cross a street when some drunk driver came careening down the road and swerved within inches of the young boy before crashing into a parked car on the other side of the street. The pharmacist ran over, helped the drunk out from behind the wheel, and gave him a good beat down.

75

[quote]BobParr wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Edevus wrote:
One famous “torero” was drunk driving (and over speed limit) last month and killed a guy. He may just face 6 months of jail. Long live Spanish laws.

Want to kill someone? Don’t bother with a gun, that will be 10 years. Just get drunk and crush them with your car.[/quote]

I know a guy who did that. He served 18 months.
[/quote]

Kid I went to highschool with, loose acquaintance, did 1 year for each innocent life he took. 5 people in his car, one in the other, and he was the only one out of the 6 who survived.

The father of one of the girls in the car did time after beating this kid within an inch of his life when he got out I hear. Although this is just rumor to me, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true. I guess he has a droopy eye now from the beating.

[/quote]

The girl’s father should have been rewarded, or at least have had any charges dismissed.

A pharmacist I used to work for did a similar thing. He and his wife and young son were about to cross a street when some drunk driver came careening down the road and swerved within inches of the young boy before crashing into a parked car on the other side of the street. The pharmacist ran over, helped the drunk out from behind the wheel, and gave him a good beat down.
[/quote]

Hell yes, would have done the same thing.

76

[quote]bond james bond wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]Captnoblivious wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:
^ Here is the caveat to your argument, though when the rights of the individual effect the rights of the masses we have a problem.

I really dont care if DB drinks, snorts coke off a hooker, while another one shots heroin in his dick. To me that is his right, HOWEVER the moment he gets in his car to go buy cigarettes he could kill multiple people. This is why we have laws and regulations, it is not a freedom to drive on a road that I also paid for with my taxes. [/quote]

Now that’s a slippery slope. There is an inherent level of risk when living in today’s society. I’m okay with a higher level of risk in some instances.

Maybe we should outlaw lifted trucks due to their high risk for roll over…:smiley: Or maybe handguns, fried food, etc…

Cities and rural american are almost like two different countries. I don’t believe these viewpoints will ever be reconciled. [/quote]

I could see the argument for the lifted truck because technically it could roll over and kill someone besides myself. However most states have regulations and the Govt has regulations on what is considered street legal.

Other arguments again are the fact harming yourself is one thing when you infringe on others is where we need some type of standard.

Now I was born and raised in rural America, and now live in the City. (Beverly Hillbilly’s IRL) Yes there are differences that will never be reconciled, however the fundamental truth of the matter is harm to others not yourself.[/quote]

SUVs and trucks in general have much higher roll over rates.

I get what your saying, but that comes back to my philosophy of greater punishment for personal injury or damage of property. And I’m not saying their shouldn’t be some type of punishment for people that are all over the place on the road. Our current laws are over the top imo.

I’ve seen a lot of people get DUI’s. I think the punishment often times exacerbates their alcoholism or spurs it on.
[/quote]

Alcoholism is a progressive disease, meaning that it gets worse and worse. The exacerbation of it that you see occurs independent of any outside factors. There are certainly some things that can accelerate it, but it’s something that is already accelerating anyways.

This is probably a totally biased statement, given that most people I know who have received DUIs I have met in a 12-step program and given that I’ve lost 5 friends and one family member to drunk driving, but I think that pretty much anyone who gets a DUI is an alcoholic. Those that aren’t are irresponsible to the point where they are dangerous.

You see, if you drive somewhere you are driving away from that place as well. If you KNOW ahead of time that it is illegal to drive drunk, what else could cause someone to take that risk and drive drunk? What else would explain why someone would drink, knowing that they have to drive later? Why else would they risk death or arrest for a few drinks?[/quote]

The guys I mentioned who drive drunk are what I consider weekend-a-holics, different breed of cat don’t you think?

Sometimes I wonder which is more dangerous on the road. The weekend binger or the full blown functioning alcoholic.
[/quote]
Not all alcoholics are the same. The weekend binger IS your fullblown functioning alcoholic. Look, it’s simple. If you want to know if someone is an alcoholic there’s a test. Have a drink or two, then stop. That’s it for the night. Do it again tomorrow and the next day and so forth. If you can drink this way and be fine with having a drink or two and can continue to drink this way, you are probably not an alcoholic. But if you CANNOT drink successfully in this manner, you probably have a problem. One drink is too much, two isn’t enough.

You don’t have to start every day with a couple of stiff drinks to get you going in order to be an alcoholic.

77

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]flipcollar wrote:
I just read through this thread, and was convinced by captainoblivious’s statements (and his avatar picture) that he couldn’t be over 22 years old. I went to his profile at the end of reading and saw that he’s 30. I knew plenty of guys with his perspective when I was around 20 years old, but it’s ridiculous to still think that way at his age (or mine). I don’t understand how people can read a scientific study, or see relevant statistics, and say “yea, that’s cool and all, but I don’t believe it.” But that’s basically his argument. Numbers are for pussies.[/quote]

He just likes a good discussion and I think he likes to keep the argument going. [/quote]

It’s not a good discussion when one’s stance comes from a position of ignorance.

78

[quote]OBoile wrote:
This has nothing to do with people’s right to put things in their own bodies. People can drink as much as they want.

Drunk driving regulations relate to operating a motor vehicle - which is NOT a right. Drink all you want, just don’t drive afterwards.

There is absolutely no need to drink and drive. Putting the safety of other people at risk for a little buzz is extremely selfish and should be punished severly.[/quote]

Did you even read what I posted there?

79

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

You see, if you drive somewhere you are driving away from that place as well. If you KNOW ahead of time that it is illegal to drive drunk, what else could cause someone to take that risk and drive drunk? What else would explain why someone would drink, knowing that they have to drive later? Why else would they risk death or arrest for a few drinks?[/quote]

I think you are underestimating how big of an asshole some people can be. To many people having a little buzz is more important to other people’s safety.

80

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

You see, if you drive somewhere you are driving away from that place as well. If you KNOW ahead of time that it is illegal to drive drunk, what else could cause someone to take that risk and drive drunk? What else would explain why someone would drink, knowing that they have to drive later? Why else would they risk death or arrest for a few drinks?[/quote]

I think you are underestimating how big of an asshole some people can be. To many people having a little buzz is more important to other people’s safety.[/quote]

When one’s priorities become out of whack to the point where drinking becomes more important than things like the safety of others, well…that’s a clear sign of alcoholism.