@atp_4_me
This is partly a matter of terminology, based on the way some people use the terms High Intensity, Sprints and Intervals. Athletics and other sports based actvities are more precise in the way they differentiate. Using the terms Sprints and Intervals as entirely different categories. They often have further sub divisions such as Accelerations, Max V, Speed Endurance. Cardio is relevant (only) for Intervals and to a lesser extent Speed Endurance.
My point is simply that true sprinting has minimal glycogen/fat usage compared to intervals and long/slow, respectively. I try to avoid using the term high intensity which is generic.
I ignore most studies by companies trying to sell stuff. They lack rigour. Unlike sports training they tend to use terms that sound good, such as High Intensity.
If I may, I do Tabata’s, or try to 1-2 per week. What difference is there, if any, between a 3-5 minute warm-up, 6-10 cycles of best effort 20 second high intensity/10 second lower intensity. I will avoid the term sprint, nor will I claim I am doing an all out or maximum effort. I can’t judge that per se.) and a 3 minute, 20-30 second best effort cycle, and repeat another 2 times. I think Peter Attia has mentioned this, but I cannot hunt down the podcast where he brings this up. I normally do this on an Airdyne.
If it’s done with powerlifter rest periods, that’s a good thing. You’ll avoid cortisol build-up (one of the HIT Trainers addressed this in a recent article). But the statement that there is NO cardio involved (in sprint trainng) may be mistaken. Certainly, it may not adhere to the Rules of Cardio as written by Hoyle, but do you KNOW there’s no cardio improvements occuring? I don’t believe you do…
@Friedrich : The effect of the above sessions on any individual will be personal to their aspirations and levels of fitness.
An illustrative analogy would be to say that running 20second efforts with incomplete recovery would be more applicable for an 800m runner. A 3 minute effort would be more relevant for say a 3,000m runner. I guess you can translate this into max strength lifts versus Walrus type conditioning.
The durations, speeds and recovery times are a massive subject in their own right and are specific to the sport and the level of athlete.
If you are asking about the specific cardio training benefits for sports the most practical approach is to use heart rate zones.
If you are interested in the health implications - I can`t answer that question.
@simon_hecubus If you want to be specific I would say the cardio benfits and use of glycogen are low for anaerobic alactic efforts, by that I mean flat out for 10secs with the required 3mins or so to recover ATP and creatine phosphate. Compared to the cardio benefits of the lower effort longer duration energy systems.
Can I quote a study, no. Have I seen people suffer when stepping up in race distances - yes.
Its pretty pointless splitting hairs, quoting studies etc on this stuff.
Are you saying that 6 x 30 metre accelerations from block starts…with up to 3 to 5 minutes rest between each is going to stress the aerobic system much…if at all?
That is a typical “sprint” session…NOT 3 x 30 seconds with two to four minutes rest between each, as is seen in a typical “sprint interval” session.
If you are doing your Tabatas for health, then I might ask…why?
This is where I disagree with Atp4u. I’m not sure that they are necessary for health and longevity.
One consistent element in the lifestyles of blue zone members is a distinct lack of stress in their lives, or certainly a concerted effort to minimise it. Exercise, as much as we may like it, is stress to the body. The higher the intensity, the more stress there is. Yes some may argue that a little stress, every now and then is a good thing, and our body idea are equipped to handle occasional adrenaline spikes. This may be so…but as part of a year round planned exercise program? Probably not. How many times a year were our ancestors chased by a sabre tooth tiger? Twice a week? Unlikely.
Call it lacking in scientific rigour and highly anecdotal, but I have yet to see a centenarian interviewed, who credits lung busting efforts or PB’s in either weights or cardio efforts for their longevity. Instead a common denominator seems to be activity, not formalised exercise, and lots of it.
I don’t use Tabatas !
I use ReHiT and long slow cardiovascular conditioning.
There is a need to increase the Ventilatory threshold 1 to benefit metabolism and burn a larger percentage of fat . The lungs’ function decreases with aging. Occasionally , a chosen mode of cardiovascular conditioning should elevate the rate of breathing to stress this important aspect of conditioning.
Reduction of muscle glycogen during a typical resistance exercise bout or a single 30-s sprint is likely to be in the range of 25-35% of the total glycogen store in the active muscles, whereas repeated sprints will cause a greater drain on glycogen.
I said that intervals (obviously several efforts) will drain glycogen significantly. I dont need you to put it in in bold type.
If you are unwilling to recognise the difference in energy systems and training rationale between sprints and intervals I am going stop trying to explain any further.
Every time I try to reduce stress those around me decide I need more. I do Tabatas because I like them. But, if there is a better benefit, if any, between 30s all out, and a three minute more leisurely pace, I am willing to give them a spin. But, to be blunt, I have a genetically modified lower back. (Caudal Regression Syndrome). Any long term lower body use, walking included, becomes quite painful, even with pain management. I picked up the Tabata habit because its gets the heart rate up, even if briefly. I would swim, but I live in the desert.
Doddfrank,
Did you ever decide on what mode of cardio to adopt to compliment your sprint training? Did you take up any of the suggestions offered? Just curious…
@sgg I have tried various combinations of bike/row with complexes or even more intense work with tabatas. They move the dial slightly in getting HR to say 110, buts its a lot of effort for what is essentially designed to be low intensity training to increase aerobic work capacity and for longevity. I think my aerobic abilities exceed my strength capabilities.
So mainly stick to 30-40 mins of low intensity non running cardio with bike/row/treadmill walk work. Or extensive tempo for sprinters, eg 8x200m with 1min recovery at about 70% of best speed for the distance.
In order to fit in weights with sprinting and the above I tend to do a short but intense speed session (as per Tony Holler) followed by strength work. Leaving enough time for dedicated cardio sessions.
The other thing is to forget weekly programming. For example schedule 2 speed sessions, 3x strength, 3xcardio as a block that can take 7-10 days according to my availability.
Notice the CAROL bike is mainly a concentric driven bike, with the resistance increased on the concentric pedaling phases. Concentrics utilize more ATP (energy) which is why this bike empties out glycogen stores in the thighs. Eccentrics cause muscle damage thereby increasing energy needed for repair, albeit thereby decreasing exercise volume. This cannot be a good paradigm for conditioning or decreasing bodyfat percentage. Looks like plain vanilla reps win again.
It is nice to see Drew Baye incorporate plenty of cardio exercise with his current contest preparation of short daily walks. His main preparation revolves around cardio (time wise) and high carbohydrate meals. His resistance training is minimal as he has gained very little muscle mass over the last several years. I guess SuperSlow can now be explained as - “SuperSlow “ to change to superior methods.
I’m surprised he’s still doing the Super Slow Protocol. He could very likely be making gains using a more standard tempo and now that he’s on TRT, he could easily push to a slightly higher volume and frequency(not even anything crazy, perhaps an increase to something just shy of competition years Mentzer or Dorian) and also potentially further his gains. It seems almost like he’s trying to prove a point that Super Slow is viable for competitive bodybuilders. That’s fine and dandy, but you’d think he might want to experiment a little bit since he’s competing and more muscle is pretty much always better In that scenario.
