2 injections per week every 84 hours, i just could not take it, the very next day i was just feeling too bloated, at least the first step was done right lower the dose, more is not better using this that is for sure, also my SHBG is low never had over 25.
I mean if i block 5AR is just more than obvious that more T is gonna be converted into E2.
One other thing Jay is also saying now that one should also not use HCG, What???
Totally 100% agreed, you only need T+HCG+AI as former KSman used to say, seems like he was not that off at all
Also SERMS, DHEA and Preg do raise SHBG
So 1 day? You came off of a hormone disrupting prescription drug, used for cancer patients, for 1 day and went back on because you felt bloated? With all due respect give it 6 months.
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I jumped ship on my AI 3 weeks ago. Heres what happened.
Bloat - i steadied my diet. Zero salt and sugar. 7 days later im fine
Eye sight- vision close up repaired its self. No more blurry. Wtf???
Fatigue- gone. No more naps.
Aches - joint aches gone
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Who ever doupts the cessation of an AI should buy jays books. Also buy crislers book. Perspective and personal choce is vital. Also google AI studies. They may suprise you.
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The videos posted here were extremely interesting and informative.
Here are my own thoughts and sharing some personal experiences from the conversation about TRT, Estrogen and depression.
There appears to be a lot of things going on in his life (divorce, dropping AI, incorrect views on the role or E2, etc) but any one alone would likely not push someone over the edge who was otherwise healthy / happy. We donāt know about his emotional state - but - have you checked out his FB site and looked at the pics of him flexing. I can tell you as a former bodybuilder myself - you donāt get that jacked at 60 years old just taking a normal TRT dose. It appears as if he was taking some additional anabolics or at least pushing his testosterone dose way up. I can also tell you from experience that doing either or both of these causes massive depression when you come off - some of it is physiological (the hormone swings) plus deeply psychological (seeing yourself āwasteā away compared to when you were on. Given his recent heart attack last year - and IF he was in fact on supplemental gear (i.e. juicing)- I could see a situation where his lipids or other panels had to have him come off quickly - which would have altered his psyche significantly, believe me. That combined with other factors, divorce, etc. could have pushed him over the edge. Iām only extrapolating and trying to come up with answers (which may be too complex to even surmise) so I hope you all take this with the good intension that it was intended.
Regarding Estradiol - The evidence posted in one of the videos suggested that it should not be treated with an AI. This depends on the individuals response. Iāve seen guys taking TRT at 150mg/week that need none. Personally, when Iām on 100 mg - my Estradiol shoots to 60 and I feel a little puffy - so I try to keep it in the 25-40 range. I have had no degradation of lipids. Everyoneās mileage may vary - but just like Testosterone - very high or very low levels of Estradiol are not good for men.
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Good god let the guy Rest In Peace without all these accusations. He was a Provider who helped thousands, and possibly 10s of thousands more due to his sharing of knowledge on boards videos and etc.
He was on TRT for god knows how many decades. I know 2 or 3 guys on normal dosages of T and thatās re bloody ripped. Gtfo here.
Is that moving to 100mg a week or what are you saying here? Any change in protocol will cause T to incite some bloat that eventually goes away. Again, not clear on what youāre stating.
You will have to qualify the first part of that statement because there appears to be no scientific research to support very high levels of E2 are harmful.
I was on 100mg Testosterone per week (my starting dose and what I do currently) with .5 mg Arimidex (AI) / week - and my E2 was 60 - too high for me. Incidentally, when I increased the AI to 1 MG / week my E2 crashed to 6 - also not good. my spreading the .5 mg dose to .25 mg twice per week instead of taking the .5 all at once - I was able to lower E2 to the low 30s.
regarding the effects of high E2 - there are a number of studies which showed that it was harmful. Iāve listed an article by Life Extension below which summarizes some of these. Note that these are dated a bit and are about 10 years old. One of the videos above actually indicated it was protective for all forms of mortality - the doctor stated that he prescribes Estrogen for men with prostate cancer. Personally, I could not imagine how taking supplemental Estrogen could be beneficial - everything Iāve ever read here, on other forums, in other studies - all showed it was bad. But - as time goes on - we find out more information.
One thing Iām very grateful for in this thread - was the video I mentioned above which still concludes that High Normal testosterone is the way to go and lowers all forms of mortality. Whenever I hear of someone on TRT having a heart attack (as I recently learned about Dr Crisler) - I think 'oh cr@p - maybe all these assumptions about T being beneficial are BS." Itās not - his data, the data in the video and many others from the medical community (Urology, Anti-Aging and Cardiology) all say the same thing - High Normal T is best.
Hereās the link on estradiol I mentioned -
Yeah Dr. Rouzier has already torn this site apart.
Again, based on what exactly? I donāt mean to beat a dead horse here but AIs are poison and lead to tons of complications. High is E2 is protective and only dangerous with accompanying low testosterone.
it was subjective - I was getting some water retention and nipple sensitivity (this was when I first starting TRT so the effects may have subsided as you suggested). Iāll have to do a bit more research on the AI. I was told that as long as the lipid panel was good - (which is one of the areas AIs are notorious for affecting) - we should be good to go.
Check these videos out:
Also check out this other forum topic which has a lot of good information started by our in forum endocrinologist:
This is great info. Thanks for posting. I would still contend that estradiol needs to be managed to a certain degree ā for example I have been on this forum and others long enough to observe that when estradiol is creeping up above the 75 to 90 range ā is when most men start experiencing anxiety and poor libido, regardless of what their testosterone is. Also, if the goal of hormone replacement is to achieve the hormone levels of a healthy 25-year-old ā I have read studies that show the upper E2 limit in this age group to be 35. Either way - youāve pointed me to some grest research and I am reviewing that and other ones.
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I live under a rock and had not seen this thread that Crisler had passed.
Today, I received an email from his office that many of you probably received as well.
In it, they are suggested Defy Medical ā¦ as well as Dr David Nebbeling (Osteopatchic Health & Hormones) for those looking for a referral. All of Dr Crislerās staff (and website, online consultation program, etc.) will now be part of Dr Nebbelingās office.
Dr David Nebbeling
3918 W St Joseph Hwy
Lansing, MI 48917
517-323-1833
If this was already posted, sorry.
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You know what Iām thinking. I think the best kind of āsuicideā is Tony Hugeās way, a social/career suicide. Step 1) Be a successful albeit apparently unhappy man in the west. Step 2) Peace out and spend your time enjoying life at the gym + beach + eating local fresh exotic fruits + in the sun + away from stress, 5G and pollution. Leaving the hamster wheel behind.
Easier said than done. Mourning Crisler, he improved so many lives even tho some of his ideas I didnāt agree with.
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Iām very sorry for that, Iāve watched many of his videos and he seemed like a constantly seeking man.
I do not want to be rude here but it brings me to the point what part has TRT it his heart attack? Many people used to claim TRT can cause that, then this was said to be disolved, but at the end a prominent TRT doctor passes away from that?
I know he used to advocate AI and according to latest data high estradiol is not a bad thing, and it keeps you precisely from heart attacks. So it turns out too much modulation and messing with things is bad and the process should be left as natural as possible. This is what also makes sense to me from a logical point of view.
John criser used AAS back in the day, I believe heās talked about it. also from looking at some of his tutorial vids Iād say he was on a hefty ātrtā dose + low dose GH and potentially some other pharmaceuticals. Just my speculation though, his heart attack had nothing to do with TRT (did the ai cause it? Mightāve played a role in premature arterial stiffening, I do believe it was said his heart was free of atherosclerosis, so elevated lipids/low HDL probs had very little to do with it
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Dr. Crisler took his own life dude. He did not die of a heart attack. He did have a heart attack a few years back though.
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Someone like crissler lived a long life. He was close to 70s I believe and he commited suicide
You do realize that Trt isnāt going to negate any genetic defects. It might lower the chance. At his age the chance of heart attack is high .
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Dr. Crisler did not die from a heart attack.
TRT did not cause his previous heart attack. Testosterone is highly heart protective, etc.
If I had to guess, I would say it was the decades of a stressful position; and 5 years of a very ugly divorce (I am not going to give details but as a friend of his, I can tell you unequivocally that he was royally shafted); plus his personality (super intense) - may have contributed to many other factors we donāt know about that lead to his heart attack.
But he DID NOT DIE of a heart attack.
He was found hanging in his garage.
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