[quote]Sloth wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Say, do you have at least some rudimentary education on how to conduct a civilized discourse in your schools and colleges and if so may I ask how you did in those courses?
[/quote]
Sure, but I don’t waste it on idiots. I’m not interested in pointing out the obvious to Rockwell fangirls. You’ve always flirted with kookiness, but this post takes the cake. Posting quotes from Osama, from a statement for which his audience was dhimmi infidels such as yourself, and taking them at face value? I guess he’s an Eco warrior, too. Or, maybe he knows what to say to Rockwellian idiots AND leftist hippies.
"You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases, more than any other country. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies and industries."–Osama
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They don’t hate us for our freedoms?
“When a group of Muslim scholars wrote to the Americans saying that there should be equality, justice, and freedom, between the West and Islam, bin Ladin had this to say about it:”
[The Muslims’ declaration] came supporting the United Nations and their humanistic articles, which revolve around three principles: equality, freedom, and justice. Nor do they mean equality, freedom, and justice as was revealed by the Prophet Muhammad [Sharia]. No, they mean the West’s despicable notions, which we see today in America and Europe, and which have made the people like cattle."
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What do they say to other muslims, instead of gullible Rothbardians and Leftists?
We also extend our hands to every Muslim zealous over making Islam triumph till they join us in a course of action to save the umma from its painful reality. [This course of action] consists of staying clear of idolatrous tyrants, warfare against infidels, loyalty to the believers, and jihad in the path of Allah. Such is a course of action that all who are vigilant for the triumph of Islam should vie in, giving and sacrificing in the cause of liberating the lands of the Muslims, making Islam supreme in its [own] land, and then spreading it around the world.–Ayman al-Zawahiri
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As to the relationship between Muslims and infidels, this is summarized by the Most High’s Word: You have a good example in Abraham and those with him. They said to their people: ‘We disown you and what you worship besides Allah. We renounce you. Enmity and hate shall forever reign between us–till you believe in Allah alone’ [Koran 60:4]. So there is an enmity, evidenced by fierce hostility, and an internal hate from the heart. And this fierce hostility–that is, battle–ceases only if the infidel submits to the authority of Islam, or if his blood is forbidden from being shed [a dhimmi], 9 or if the Muslims are [at that point in time] weak and incapable [of spreading Sharia law to the world]. But if the hate at any time extinguishes from the hearts, this is great apostasy; the one who does this [extinguishes the hate from his heart] will stand excuseless before Allah. Allah Almighty’s Word to His Prophet recounts in summation the true relationship: ‘Prophet! Wage war against the infidels and hypocrites and be ruthless. Their abode is hell–an evil fate!’ [Koran 9:73]. Such, then, is the basis and foundation of the relationship between the infidel and the Muslim. Battle, animosity, and hatred–directed from the Muslim to the infidel–is the foundation of our religion. And we consider this a justice and kindness to them. The West perceives fighting, enmity, and hatred all for the sake of the religion as unjust, hostile, and evil. But who’s understanding is right–our notions of justice and righteousness, or theirs? [p. 43]–Osama
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As for the word ‘oppression,’ those addressed [Americans] take it to mean being placed under the authority of Islam by the sword, as the Prophet did with the infidels. They think that something that denies them [the freedom] to pursue obscenities, atheism and blasphemy, and idolatry is an ‘oppression.’ They think that an attack launched against their ground, as in an Offensive Jihad, is an ‘injustice.’ And so forth. Then come the [intellectuals] declaring that justice is a right while oppression is forbidden. If they mean justice and oppression, as understood by those addressed then this is a great calamity, and a blasphemous conversation. As for oppression, the only oppression is to forsake them in their infidelity, and not use jihad as a means to make them enter into the faith–as the Prophet did with them. [pp. 45-46]–Osama
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Regarding which shared understandings, exactly, is it possible that we agree with the immoral West?.. What commonalities, if our foundations contradict, rendering useless the shared extremities–if they even exist? For practically everything valued by the immoral West is condemned under sharia law. [T]he issues most prominent in the West revolve around secularism, homosexuality, sexuality, and atheism [p. 37]. As for this atmosphere of shared understandings, what evidence is there for Muslims to strive for this? What did the Prophet, the Companions after him, and the righteous forebears do? Did they wage jihad against the infidels, attacking them all over the earth, in order to place them under the suzerainty of Islam in great humility and submission? Or did they send messages to discover ‘shared understandings’ between themselves and the infidels in order that they may reach an understanding whereby universal peace, security, and natural relations would spread–in such a satanic manner as this? The sharia provides a true and just path, securing Muslims, and providing peace to the world.–Osama to Saudi intellectuals who proposed opening up a conversation with the west.
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When the above referenced intellectuals wrote, “It’s imperative that we bid all to legitimate talks, presented to the world, under the umbrella of justice, morality, and rights, ushering in legislations creating peace and prosperity for the world…”, Osama responded:
Surely there is no power save through Allah alone! We never thought that such words would ever appear from those who consider themselves adherents of this religion. Such expressions, and more like them, would lead the reader to believe that those who wrote them are Western intellectuals, not Muslims! Those previous expressions are true only by tearing down the wall of enmity from the infidels. They are also expressions true only by rejecting jihad–especially Offensive Jihad. The problem, however, is that Offensive Jihad is an established and basic tenet of this religion. It is a religious duty rejected only by the most deluded. So how can they call off this religious obligation [Offensive Jihad], while imploring the West to understandings and talks ‘under the umbrella of justice, morality, and rights’ The essence of all this comes from right inside the halls of the United Nations, instead of the Divine foundations that are built upon hating the infidels, repudiating them with tongue and teeth till they embrace Islam or pay the jizya [tribute] with willing submission and humility. Muslims, and especially the learned among them, should spread sharia law to the world–that and nothing else. Not laws under the ‘umbrella of justice, morality, and rights’ as understood by the masses. No, the sharia of Islam is the foundation.
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And, much, much more besides what I’ve taken the time to quote.
[/quote]
I did not ask whether OBL is seriously deranged, I asked how your derangement differs from his and what makes the US actions fundamentally different from his.
I would assume that there are fundamental underlying differences that I simply do not understand and not just histrionics and pandering to the gut feelings of the unwashed masses.
