[quote]Cortes wrote:
BONEZ217 wrote:
For those who have done both ratios of test/tren, were there major differences in muscle building effects or just differences in side effects? If someone was to start at point A with a controllled diet and workout plan and the only variable was the ratios of test/tren (lets say 500mg Test + 245mg Tren vs. 250mg Test + 525mg Tren) what would be the likely differences in results.
I think that the difference is primarily one of decreased side effects, but that you aren’t going to get as much anabolism stacking it this way. However, I didn’t really run it this way long enough to be able to comment upon this based upon anything more than a feeling I have.
That said, tren is often touted as a “cutting” drug, but I have (very) successfully used it for bulking. The main reason I think it works as a good anabolic has nothing to do with it’s mechanism of effect. Rather, the fact that (with the right training and diet), strength is so massively increased on tren that the body really doesn’t have much choice but to grow. Like Professor X always says, you just don’t see a lot of guys benching over 400 with 16 inch arms. It has to come from somewhere, and the guys training to bench over 400 are usually not the ones concerned with arm size in the first place.
Either way, all of this is so subjective that I think someone is just going to have to try the stack this way for himself and see how he is affected by it. I mean, I get pretty mild sides from tren no matter how I stack it and no matter how high I dose it. Other guys develop all of tren’s worst offending sides on just 35mg/d. [/quote]
Good stuff. Yeah actual experience isn’t that important to me with this. An educated opinion is quite valuable. I’ll try it for myself eventually I just wanted to get some opinions to make sure I’m not overlooking something.
Considering that Trenbolone has a higher anabolic rating than Testosterone it, in theory would mean that inverting the doses of the two drugs is more than a direct swap.
So if for example you compare 750mg Testosterone and 250mg Trenbolone with 250mg Test’one and 750mg Tren’lone, the raising of the Tren by 500mg and the dropping of the Test by the same volume as is the case in the second of the two, would by way of the anabolic-androgenic rating, make for a more anabolic AND more androgenic cycle…
However, of course the anabolic rating is not an accurate representation of the anabolism expected in human skeletal muscle tissue, but i think only comparable to potency compared to the other steroids using testosterone as a base.
(i call it ‘anabolic rating’ but i cannot think of the actual term, or if that is indeed it and forgot)
I think of it like this… it is fine to weigh yourself of scales that are out by an unknown factor as long as you know they are consistent, but you must simply make sure that the baseline is one set on those same dodgy scales.
The anabolic rating wont tell you how good a steroid is (how much you weigh), but it will tell you how it compares to the other steroids (how much your weight changed)!
Sorry to say that I cannot say. I don’t get blood pressure problems with anything I take, nor do I experience any kind of malaise. Cardio destruction seems to be pretty much par for the course with tren with me. I’ve just learned to deal with it at any dose, and it really only affects me when I try running (like actually running outside, as humans were originally designed to do), which I’ve pretty well stopped doing anyway.
I’ve found that that kind of cardio tends to eat up muscle or impede it’s growth, even on cycle, and that milder cardio (ie lighter bike or treadmill work) provides me all of the benefits I require without misery or muscle loss.
I do think you’ll just have to try for yourself and see what happens, but the main point to take away from this is that you don’t have to worry about the “tren-dick” boogeyman, provided you have a low dose of test in you while running the tren. I’m actually curious where all of those stories came from.
[quote]stillearning wrote:
what is an efffective dose of tren e? I have heard 150 all the way to 300… I am wanting to do a cycle of deca at 400mg wk and test cyp at 400mg wk. what would be a good dose of tren to mix in?[/quote]
Hey guys, can tren or test e be site injected? if so, which muscles and at what part? Tren hurts like a mfk going in. your thoughts please
[quote]stillearning wrote:
what is an efffective dose of tren e? I have heard 150 all the way to 300… I am wanting to do a cycle of deca at 400mg wk and test cyp at 400mg wk. what would be a good dose of tren to mix in?[/quote]
Two Nor-19 substances…keep the caber on-hand!! I am no AAS guru but I believe there are other methods used for muscle-hardening than running Tren and Deca
I will be running TRE for the first time in about a month or so and I have always been told to start with, run a 2:1 ration of Test to Tren…i.e., double your dose of test to whatever amount of tren you’re running. I will be running 600mg/week of TE and 300mg/week of TRE. I will, however, drop the dose of TRE down to 250mg/week if the sides are too much for me to handle. With that being said, I am hoping that the 300mg/week will be just fine as there are some people on the forums that run up to 700mg/week of tren.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Indeed, I believe one of our respected members, Dave_, has has massive, ugly problems with insomnia while running test/tren stacked in the more common manner. Yet when he switched to a low dosage of test and a relatively pretty high one of tren, I seem to recall his saying that this change pretty well took care of all of the previous problems while granting superhuman abilities.
I hope he will get in here and correct me if I am relating this wrongly.
[/quote]
Just saw this…
During a typical high-test medium-tren cycle (700:350) my insomnia got so bad I just needed to change something. For a long time the tradeoff was worth it in terms of gains and leanness (which kept coming despite the insomnia), but the lack of sleep was starting to effect my cognition somewhat.
Two things led me to trying high-tren low-test;
I remembered running Anadrol/Winstrol with High test, and noting that a lot of the “harsh anadrol sides” were alleviated hugely when I dropped the test down a little.
Our very own Bill Roberts mentioned that HCG + Tren was a perfectly fine way to run tren (paraphrasing), suggesting that the low-test approach I used with anadrol might be worth persuing.
So, starting with a “base” of around 200mg test per week, I’ve worked the tren up to 1g per week…(for experimental purposes only, I didn’t actually find gains any better than with 700mg) NO insomnia.
Gradually I have pushed the test up in the past to get around 500mg per week with 700mg tren. This is usually asking for trouble though. 500mg test is pushing it, and certainly any higher than this and my insomnia comes back. 400mg is probably my sweet spot, with 700mg tren.
Incidentally, I have since found that 700:700 mast:tren with 50mg dbol per day works beautifully, with NO test. Libido issues are of course taken care of with masteron/dbol, and I find I have no insomnia or any other sides to speak of, except slightly increased blood pressure.
This is an interesting thread and it as really caused me to rethink my dosages of Tren and Test on my upcoming 2-weeker. It will be my first experience with Tren so I figured I would keep it a little low. But, then again, it’s only 2 weeks, and thanks to the acetate ester if I had any bad sides I could always drop the dosage down.
Now I’m thinking 30-40mg/day Test Prop + 70mg/day Tren Ace. Even considering what I just said above, does that still seem high for the TA?
I know I’ve been off and on T-ation this year but man is this turning into a thread of the year or what?!
OK time for my 2 cents. In the past I was part of the ratio mentality group. Which necessarily meant I was part of the much more test than tren group as well. My adherence to that mindset was pretty much altered by [once again] Bill Roberts who pointed out that its not about ratios between compounds as much as it is what you can tolerate of an individual compound. In 08 I ran my TE @ 750 and TRE @ 300. In 09 I ran TE @1G and TRE @400. These are relatively the same “ratio” and certainly are part of the old school ‘gotta have lots more test than anything else’ mentality. Now I would say of course I had very successful cycle runs at the above mentioned doses. [I did a cycle log for 08, sadly not for this past year] In my experience sides, gains, etc were relatively the same between the 2 cycles. Admittedly the doses were close, it not like I went from 200mg of tren one year to 800 the next. Now I am also one who gets many of the common tren sides. They were no better or worse at either years dose level. In fact, this is going from memory of course, I might dare to stay I had slightly less breathing/aerobic/sweating/bp issues this year on higher doses of tren and test than last year. Although one could point to adaptation.
I certainly am intrigued though by this talk of low test and high tren dosing. I suppose one never really knows till they try it. At this point I’d very much consider a trial run next time around.
A slightly tangent question is would this work [or would anyone even try this] with the other nor19? For instance 300mg TE and 600-800mg ND. We have several guys in here on record with 700-1000mg weekly tren doses. I’ve only once heard of anyone taking more than 500mg of Deca and he only took 600mg
In the name of science, I have tried npp with test and without. These were only “3 weeker” experiments though, so take them for what they’re worth.
Originally I ran 150mg Test PP with 150mg NPP eod. No problems whatsoever, whilst “on” or during/after PCT.
The second time around, as an experiment (reasoning that I was only using a phenylprop ester, so I could pull out if things went badly) I used simply 150mg NPP eod. I kept all of my gains, and had no physical problems whilst “on” or during/after PCT, but I had some serious mental issues for about 3 months afterwards. Severe depression and anxiety. I used a standard SERM PCT, and based on the fact that I was able to maintain my gains, I would wager that my endogenous test production was fine.
However, the depression issues have made me very cautious of experimenting too wildy with mandrolone, so I’ll be staying in the old-school ratio camp for this particular compound!
