Dorian Yates Discussion

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Yates changed BBing. No one had ever displayed the freak physique that he showed up with.

Everyone after him is merely standing on his shoulders.

I give Yates credit, but not that much credit. Freaks like Orville Burke showed up on stage and made it look very easy for a while. What Yates had was the conditioning. He is also who many blame for why “freaks” began winning over those with slightly smaller and more symmetrical physiques.

I’m not the historian you are, so I will defer to your opinion. But he was the first freak I can remember. I’m not just talking size - but his vascularity as well.
[/quote]

Yeah those black and white photos him-- just mind boggling.

22

[quote]dhuge67 wrote:
I never understood this “growth hormone” belly thing. It’s a huge gut of abs. Why would that necessarily be GH-related?[/quote]

GH makes EVERYTHING grow, including the organs and intestines=big belly that is not any fatter.

23

If Yates was only supposed to win 2 Olympias in the 1990’s, who would/should have won instead of him? A torn biceps is a flaw, but not a major flaw, such as lack of width, or (back) thickness

Shawn Ray in 1994? Definitely not, I would say. Although well conditioned and symmetrical he was very narrow, and small.

Levrone, perhaps, but he did not have the width and thickness of Yates from the back. Neither did he have the same conditioning.

Wheeler? He did not have the same thickness and quality as Yates, and I think he skipped like half the Olympias from Yates’ reign.

Nasser El Sonbaty and Paul Dillet both don’t have a back good enough to even think about challnging Yates.

The only bodybuilder who eclipsed Yates was Ronnie Coleman, and this is even up for debate…

24

[quote]francois1 wrote:
If Yates was only supposed to win 2 Olympias in the 1990’s, who would/should have won instead of him? A torn biceps is a flaw, but not a major flaw, such as lack of width, or (back) thickness

Shawn Ray in 1994? Definitely not, I would say. Although well conditioned and symmetrical he was very narrow, and small.

Levrone, perhaps, but he did not have the width and thickness of Yates from the back. Neither did he have the same conditioning.

Wheeler? He did not have the same thickness and quality as Yates, and I think he skipped like half the Olympias from Yates’ reign.

Nasser El Sonbaty and Paul Dillet both don’t have a back good enough to even think about challnging Yates.

The only bodybuilder who eclipsed Yates was Ronnie Coleman, and this is even up for debate…[/quote]

Some of those should have gone to Shawn Ray, ESPECIALLY after he began tearing body parts. I do believe Levrone was due for one as well. I would need to see the line ups again to tell you what specific years.

25

[quote]Rattler wrote:

Well, apparently Markus Ruhl is pissed off at the Olympias (probably because he never won) but he says, “It’s turned into a dehydration contest. Nobody appreciates the mass monsters, the only one really left is Jay Cutler”

[/quote]

I think Ruhl is right. I saw that clip. He didn’t say those exact words unless you read or saw something different. He just thought Bodybuilding should be more about looking freaky than having dialed in conditioning. And it’s not like Ruhl ever came on stage looking smooth.

I think Ruhl is right. The rest of the Bodybuilding world honors good symmetry and the winners in contests outside of the Mr. Olympia usually have desirable physiques. So there should be at least 1 contest that’s more about looking absurdly massive than it is about normal bodybuilding Criteria. Cutler admits that he was happier competing at 240lbs but he had to get absurdly huge in order to Win the Mr. O. If that’s the way it’s going to be, then let’s not beat around the bush. Let’s have most BB shows be for well proportioned, Dexter-Jackson and Frank Zane Types. Then lets have the Mr. Olympia just be about who looks more like the Hulk.

26

[quote]Rattler wrote:
Well, apparently Markus Ruhl is pissed off at the Olympias (probably because he never won) but he says, “It’s turned into a dehydration contest. Nobody appreciates the mass monsters, the only one really left is Jay Cutler”[/quote]

Wait… nobody appreciates the mass monsters, and the only one left is they guy who won? Oh, and the guy who won before him was pretty big, too? So who doesn’t appreciate the mass monsters?

27

[quote]toddthebod wrote:
Rattler wrote:
Well, apparently Markus Ruhl is pissed off at the Olympias (probably because he never won) but he says, “It’s turned into a dehydration contest. Nobody appreciates the mass monsters, the only one really left is Jay Cutler”

Wait… nobody appreciates the mass monsters, and the only one left is they guy who won? Oh, and the guy who won before him was pretty big, too? So who doesn’t appreciate the mass monsters?[/quote]

I dunno, I’m just quoting something he wrote on his website a while ago.
I’m assuming the judges. He said that there was a movement to smaller guys.

shrugs

28

I think people want a move to the smaller guys, but the mass guys keep winning. However, most people have a hard time denying Coleman or Cutler’s wins. They can debate them, but the wins weren’t totally bogus.

29

[quote]Professor X wrote:
francois1 wrote:
If Yates was only supposed to win 2 Olympias in the 1990’s, who would/should have won instead of him? A torn biceps is a flaw, but not a major flaw, such as lack of width, or (back) thickness

Shawn Ray in 1994? Definitely not, I would say. Although well conditioned and symmetrical he was very narrow, and small.

Levrone, perhaps, but he did not have the width and thickness of Yates from the back. Neither did he have the same conditioning.

Wheeler? He did not have the same thickness and quality as Yates, and I think he skipped like half the Olympias from Yates’ reign.

Nasser El Sonbaty and Paul Dillet both don’t have a back good enough to even think about challnging Yates.

The only bodybuilder who eclipsed Yates was Ronnie Coleman, and this is even up for debate…

Some of those should have gone to Shawn Ray, ESPECIALLY after he began tearing body parts. I do believe Levrone was due for one as well. I would need to see the line ups again to tell you what specific years.[/quote]

Perhaps, I am not sure. I always believed that 1997 and not 1994 was his most controversial win. I have seen footage of both, and in 1994 he was just bigger and harder than everyone else. In 1997 his gut was out of control and he had torn both arms, and if I remember correctly, even tore a quadricep. I am not sure who came in second that year, though.

I do believe that Kevin Levrone would have deserved a mr. O more than Shawn Ray though. Levrone had big shoulders, narrow waist, big legs etc. He basically had everything, and could go toe to toe with Yates. Shawn Ray was just too small, as was Lee Labrada a decade before him. Short men have not been mr. O since Chris Dickerson…

I don’t think that we will have a “small” mr. O ever again either. Dexter Jackson, in my opinion, is anoter example of someone who is very very good, but just too small to win the O. Silvio Samuel, IF he can bring up his back is another bodybuilder who can become amazing, but will never win the O because he is too small. But that is just my opinion

30

I am a big Dorian Yates fan, hey my good friend even got to train with him at his gym a few weeks back; but, when the injuries mounted up, it did definetly make his victories a little bit more questionable.

Best thread on this board for a few years btw…

31

When you read an old T-Nation article like this ( http://www.T-Nation.com/article/features/the_steroid_interviews_1 ) it just becomes hard to fathom the day-to-day life that these guys lead in their pursuit of physique perfection.

32

Dorian is the guy that made me want to replace my back with some giant brain-like-muscle-thing.

33

I thought Ruhl deserved it though. He was in a class by himself when it came to pure mass.

34

^that is too the discussion going on at the top of the page.

35

great video thanks for posting it…

watching that video NO ONE can deny the intensity in this guys training…

36

[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
I thought Ruhl deserved it though. He was in a class by himself when it came to pure mass. [/quote]

Ruhl was huge for sure, but I don’t really care for his physique. I don’t think he should have had an olympia against the guys he lost to.

37

I don’t think Ruhl has ever won an olympia.

He is a freak. He is a throw back to the old days when there were people known for just one body part. Tom Platz and his freak legs. Zane and his vacuum pose, and the little italian with the huge back (can’t remember his name if you held a gun to my head right now).

Ruhl’s shoulders make everyone else’s look pathetic.

38

[quote]rainjack wrote:
… and the little italian with the huge back (can’t remember his name if you held a gun to my head right now).[/quote]

Franco Colombu?

39

[quote]rainjack wrote:
I don’t think Ruhl has ever won an olympia.

[/quote]

No, i knwo he didn’t i guess I didn’t word it correctly. what I meant was when triple 10 sets said he deserved a win, the guys who beat Ruhl bea him because they looked better, Ruhl didn’t have the look of an olympian hence he didn’t win. his size however was pure freak.

40

Do you guys have any particular web sites you use to read up on bodybuilders (both old and current)? I know of bodybuilders.com and I have a few picture websites but nothing with comprehensive info… I feel like if I did find a good site with all kinds of stuff I could read for days.