Don't Run From the Cops!

Off Topic
103

[quote]toki123 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
lixy wrote:
Seattle cop shoots 13-year-old

[i]Published on Monday, October 15, 2007.

Source: Seattle Times

A 13-year-old was taken to the hospital with leg wounds early this morning after a confrontation with a Seattle police officer during which the officer mistook a cellphone for a weapon.[/i]

http://www.blacklistednews.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=4516

Real simple proposition: if I think you’re pulling a weapon on me, I will shoot you. Not a thing wrong with that.

mike

no. no. NO.

Fuck man. Seriously. Are you an officer? I sure as hell hope not.

If you THINK someone is going to pull a weapon on you, you are willing to shoot them? People like you are truly dangerous to this society.

You need to spend some time reflecting on what human life means to you, and how easily you are willing to take it.
[/quote]

Toki, that is very easy to say with the benefit of hindsight.

People who are quick to criticize cops seem to forget that they have a split second to make that kind of decision. Taking the time to “reflect on human life” is what gets a cop killed.

Lesson: Don’t be stupid enough to pull anything out with your hands when a cop is pointing a gun.

104

[quote]Stelman wrote:
The cop is obviously an idiot. If he wasn’t an idiot, he wouldn’t have been a cop in the first place. UBO7 has a point there. Cops are just a cog in a huge governmental machine they simply can’t understand.[/quote]

Ah yes, all cops are “idiots”. How simplistic. Where do you come up with this? Do you get pulled over for speeding regularily?

I feel the same way about cops as I do soldiers. They deserve our respect for putting themselves in harm’s way.

105

[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Chewie wrote:
rainjack wrote:
All we have to go on is the portions of the video we could watch.

I saw an attempt to ram and flee. You saw at attempt to avoid and flee.

As for the shooting - I don’t know, nor can anyone just from the video, what caused the shooting. Was the driver armed? Was the officer’s life in danger?

How do you know from a video how many shots are sufficient?

You are absolutely correct about what we saw in the video.

We can’t tell from the video. What I saw was the officer fire more than one shot at point blank range. That, to me, is excessive. One shot at that range would probably stop anyone, except Rasputin. Unloading your clip on someone is unnecessary.

It’s easy to say that right now, at a computer, relaxing in the office. But when you’re the guy on the hood of the car making a split second decision to use lethal force, I think we can understand how the adrenaline of the situation might make you pull the trigger a few more times to make sure.

And once the decision is made to pull use lethal force, I don’t see what differnce one bullet or four makes. It’s all performed with the same intent. Probably every major police force in the country has a story of a guy on PCP who eats 13 bullets to the torso and keeps on going.[/quote]

Donut…one of the best posts on this topic. Good words!

106

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
toki123 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
lixy wrote:
Seattle cop shoots 13-year-old

[i]Published on Monday, October 15, 2007.

Source: Seattle Times

A 13-year-old was taken to the hospital with leg wounds early this morning after a confrontation with a Seattle police officer during which the officer mistook a cellphone for a weapon.[/i]

http://www.blacklistednews.com/iNP/view.asp?ID=4516

Real simple proposition: if I think you’re pulling a weapon on me, I will shoot you. Not a thing wrong with that.

mike

no. no. NO.

Fuck man. Seriously. Are you an officer? I sure as hell hope not.

If you THINK someone is going to pull a weapon on you, you are willing to shoot them? People like you are truly dangerous to this society.

You need to spend some time reflecting on what human life means to you, and how easily you are willing to take it.

Toki, that is very easy to say with the benefit of hindsight.

People who are quick to criticize cops seem to forget that they have a split second to make that kind of decision. Taking the time to “reflect on human life” is what gets a cop killed.

Lesson: Don’t be stupid enough to pull anything out with your hands when a cop is pointing a gun.
[/quote]

Well since police are never wrong, your right he should’ve shot up the 13 year old. Or maybe he was just giving the standard speech they all give when they shoot somebody. He was pulling out a black object. Are police officers trained to say this?

I’m supposed to believe some kid was running from the cops got cornered had a gun held up to him, and he decided to make a phone call?

107

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
Lesson: Don’t be stupid enough to pull anything out with your hands when a cop is pointing a gun.
[/quote]

A wise rule to live by. A rule most semi-intelliegent people SHOULD be able to figure out. The sad thing is in this case we are talking a bout a 13 year old boy who doesn’t know shit about the “real” world yet. Who was he gonna call?

This goes back to a previous poster’s comment about lack of knowledge about how authority really works. Also, kids that age who don’t know the gravity of a simple action like that are too young to be running the streets. Possibly thinking a phone call to Mom and Pop would straighten things out got him shot. I personally place most of the blame on the parents in this case.

The article said the officer shot him in the legs because he probably pulled the trigger to fast? In this case I think the cop realized in the few seconds he had that this was just a kid and decided NOT to aim at the chest as instructed and imobilized him instead. At least that’s how I would prefer to view this, giving this particular officer the benefit of the doubt. Using just enough force to contain the situation without the loss of life.

I see this officer’s actions in complete contrast with the other officer in question in this thread.

cueball

108

[quote]mapwhap wrote:

The law doesn’t serve the criminal who violates that very same law…nor do I.
[/quote]

Mapwhap,

Out of curiosity would you say that you apply this to those who you suspect have committed an offence?

The reason I was wondering is that when on several occasions when I’ve been stopped by the police, they’ve been rude and aggressive and seem to have made up their mind that I’ve committed some offence. On the other hand, when I’ve been the victim of crim they’ve generally been quite pleasant.

Just wondering…

109

[quote]cueball wrote:
A wise rule to live by. A rule most semi-intelliegent people SHOULD be able to figure out. The sad thing is in this case we are talking a bout a 13 year old boy who doesn’t know shit about the “real” world yet.
[/quote]

But, but…I was told that in the land of the free and home of the brave, “there are enough cops show on tv that any 13 year old should know that”.

In all seriousness, If that tragic event happened anywhere else, you’ll have riots across the country for weeks.

110

[quote]lixy wrote:
cueball wrote:
A wise rule to live by. A rule most semi-intelliegent people SHOULD be able to figure out. The sad thing is in this case we are talking a bout a 13 year old boy who doesn’t know shit about the “real” world yet.

But, but…I was told that in the land of the free and home of the brave, “there are enough cops show on tv that any 13 year old should know that”.

In all seriousness, If that tragic event happened anywhere else, you’ll have riots across the country for weeks.[/quote]

You are right. Nobody in this country cares what happens in Seattle. C’mon, dude. What does the location have to do it?

cueball

111

[quote]cueball wrote:
You are right. Nobody in this country cares what happens in Seattle. C’mon, dude. What does the location have to do it? [/quote]

I firmly believe that if a cop shot an unarmed 13 years old in Europe/Asia/Africa/LatinAmerica/Canada/Mexico violent riots will ensue.

112

[quote]lixy wrote:
cueball wrote:
You are right. Nobody in this country cares what happens in Seattle. C’mon, dude. What does the location have to do it?

I firmly believe that if a cop shot an unarmed 13 years old in Europe/Asia/Africa/LatinAmerica/Canada/Mexico violent riots will ensue.[/quote]

Are you joking?

Asia? Africa? Mexico? These things and much, much worse happen ALL the time.

You have no idea how easy your life is in comparison.

113

Man… I don’t about all of you, arguing the officer/s should’ve, would’ve, could’ve done this and that… but that cop had some balls dude!!! Thats straight out of T2. And he ain’t in no movie and he ain’t no Terminator. That was creasy!

Now… I think he had an “Arnie moment” after the other cop shot at the car.

ok enough joking…
-the guy was ramming his way out, he injured fellow officers, he had it a’coming.

-The 13 y.o kid. This one is sad, really. But at 13 years old u are in 8th grade about to go to H.S, you know a few things about the world. Especially if you live in the inner cities. I don’t know if he was being suicidal or not, but he knew that he could get shot by either gangs or the Police. (just think back to when u were in 8th Grade or 9th Grade, I am sure u knew very well what the police could do, and what you should do)

-No there would be no rioting in Mexico or any other country. You would get the family crying, some people agreeing, some people disagreeing, but in reality, it won’t even make the news.

114

[quote]Sxio wrote:
Are you joking?

Asia? Africa? Mexico? These things and much, much worse happen ALL the time.

You have no idea how easy your life is in comparison. [/quote]

I’m dead serious.

A cop shooting an unarmed 13 years old is simply not acceptable. The rationalizations put forth by some around here is not something you’ll hear anywhere else.

115

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
taylorsj wrote:
Air Truth,

So say a prisoner is trying to escape from prison and is hauling ass while carrying a knife. Let’s say one of the guards managed to get a handgun and steps between the prisoner and his escape route in an effort to stop him. Is it the officer’s fault if he (the officer) gets stabbed in the process of the prisoner escaping, even if by accident?

In both cases, the real one and my hypothetical one, the officer puts himself in harm’s way in order to prevent the perp’s escape. In both cases the “escapee” has a weapon that can kill (knife, vehicle). Whether the perp intends to kill the officer or not is unclear in both cases, but he still poses a threat to the officer’s life.

In my opinion, if the prisoner kills the corrections officer and is subsequently charged with manslaughter, whether intentionally or accidentally, that is the risk that the prisoner accepted when he decided to try and escape from prison.

In the case of the real scenario, the suspect accepted the risk of possibly killing someone when he decided to evade the police. Furthermore, he accepted the risk of possibly putting a police officer’s life in danger while trying to escape. His intentions matter not. So in my opinion, deadly force was justified in this scenario.

The officer was just doing his job–trying to prevent the suspects escape. Whether he needed to jump on the hood of the vehicle or not is unclear. Either way the vehicle was coming at him and the officer’s presence was not deterring the driver’s acceleration. Whether the driver was just trying to escape or intentionally trying to harm the officer doesn’t matter. The suspect was risking the life of the officer with his actions, and thus had to be met with deadly force.

Wonderful except like others you COMPLETELY missed the point. If you would like to make your story more like the video you would have to say the police officer runs and slides firing 2 guns at the same time trying to kill the prisoner. If he kills the prisoner, great. If he gets killed is it still great? Or was he an idiot for thinking he was jet li? Considering the fact that he is sliding if he accidently shoots one of his own officers what happens then? Gets brushed under the table?

Here we have a tape clearly displaying a foolish action and instead of everybody trying to support improvement we have hey the criminal deserved it. I bet these are all the same people crying over officer Tillman getting shot by friendly fire.

This is not the first incident of a police officer jumping on a hood of a car, and nearly all of them end up with somebody dead. The most notable case an undercover in New york Jumps on the hood holding a gun at the driver. 51 shots fired in that case. I would sure like to see what anybody here would do if somebody in street clothes jumped on the hood of their car holding a gun.

In this case a criminal who may or maynot have deserved it died, what happens when its the cop who jumps in front of the car who dies? Will police procedure change then?

[/quote]

Air Truth,

I don’t think I missed your point at all. I think you just don’t agree with mine, and I don’t agree with yours.

You see a cop re-enacting something out of a John Woo movie. I see a cop climbing on to the hood of a car to avoid being hit or pushed by it, while still not allowing the suspect an avenue of escape.

The final moments of the video are dramatic, indeed. I agree with you on that. But I absolutely DO NOT agree that the officer was trying to perform an acrobatic gun wielding feet for glory. I think you’re being over-dramatic.

The officer did not create that situation. The suspect forced his hand. Even if the officer did not jump on the hood, he still would have shot the suspect, and rightfully so. The car was coming at him, showing no indication that the officer’s presence was acknowledged or respected. The speed could have increased. The officer could have been caught underneath the car had he been knocked over. A number of things could have happened. The officer had established his position before the charge occurred. It is not the officer’s responsibility to dodge the suspect’s vehicle so that he is not forced to shoot him. It’s officer’s responsibility to apprehend or stop the suspect.

116

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sxio wrote:
Are you joking?

Asia? Africa? Mexico? These things and much, much worse happen ALL the time.

You have no idea how easy your life is in comparison.

I’m dead serious.

A cop shooting an unarmed 13 years old is simply not acceptable. The rationalizations put forth by some around here is not something you’ll hear anywhere else.[/quote]

Sweden and all of Scandinavia are beautiful countries, and you should be proud to live there. But I don’t think you’ve traveled much, and if you have you must not go off the beaten tourist path much. Rolling gun battles happen in major Mexican cities all the time between police and gangs, and innocent bystanders die just as much as the participants.

Africa? Are you serious? Asia? How many people have been “disappeared” by the Chinese government alone since the late 40’s? Shit, they build a dam and flood the homes of 2 million people without blinking. How many millions of mandatory abortions have they performed? You want a fucking riot, imagine the FBI strolling into your hospital room and terminating the life of your child as it crowns.

117

The only things that actually bothers me about the car video is that the officer jumped on the hood of the car. I’m pretty sure in training, or using common sense, that they would tell officers not to get in front of vehicles nor to get on top of vehicle. Either of these situations puts the officer in more danger than is necessary.

The officer could have approached from the side or from an angle. I would think that if the guy hadn’t already stopped multiple times in the pursuit so far, and even continued to accelerate the car given that an officer fired multiple rounds, the officer would not put himself in the dangerous situation that he did.

Regardless of the officer’s decision to get on the hood, which I think was poor judgment, he was certainly justified in shooting the criminal as the car was accelerated from a stop AFTER the officer got on the hood.

I really just wanted to say that getting on the hood was a bad decision.

118

So it’s okay because someone else has it worse?

119

Stupid question…I know, but I don’t feel like reading all 117 posts.

Were the shots fatal? It appears he was going for the upper body but I’m still not 100% sure.

120

Lixy if you engage in risk taking behaviour bad things can happen. It isn’t a matter of what one deserves to have happen. It’s a matter of what can happen. In such instances you have to take responsibility for your actions.

Watch this video and tell me who is at fault.
Crocodile Gets Man! - YouTube

121

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:

Sxio wrote:
Are you joking?

Asia? Africa? Mexico? These things and much, much worse happen ALL the time.

You have no idea how easy your life is in comparison.

So it’s okay because someone else has it worse?[/quote]

No, what he’s saying is that there’d be riots if it happened, which is quite frankly laughable because most of the countries he mentioned have appalling human rights records and quite simply couldn’t care less if that happened. Especially in many asian countries. They would see it as the kid’s fault for doing that in front of the officer.

I don’t know where the fuck this kid grew up if he thinks cop should wait for murder to be attempted upon them before they respond. Dude. Have you ever seen a war movie? It only take a fraction of a second for your life to end. Don’t you like living?

If I was the cop, and I thought someone was pulling a weapon on me? It doesn’t matter how old they are. I want to live. What do I get or my family get if I die?

122

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
Regardless of the officer’s decision to get on the hood, which I think was poor judgment, he was certainly justified in shooting the criminal as the car was accelerated from a stop AFTER the officer got on the hood.

I really just wanted to say that getting on the hood was a bad decision.[/quote]

Go back and watch the end again. The car was NOT accelerating. It was meerly rolling from momentum. If the car was accelerating, as you claim, it would have been out of view of the camera and the officer on the ground in about one second.

It was in the frame WAY too long and too much time elapsed for any acceleration. That officer had it in for the guy from the start with the false accusation that he tried to ram him.

Also, there is no way the cop jumped on the hood in RESPONSE to the acceleration. No way he could have hit and maintained that position on the hood if the car was already accelerating. He would have roled right over the top. That cop was on top of the hood while it was near motionless.

cueball

*edit that last paragraph isn’t really in response to you, more so in general to the statements that the cop jumped on the hood cause the guy was gonna hit him.