[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Besides my original objection of a business that systematically steals , defrauds and assaults the most vulnerable of us
[/quote]
So you’ve said.
Any evidence of payday loan companies that systematically steal, defraud, and assault their (willing) customers?
[/quote]
sure it is called observation
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Besides my original objection of a business that systematically steals , defrauds and assaults the most vulnerable of us
[/quote]
So you’ve said.
Any evidence of payday loan companies that systematically steal, defraud, and assault their (willing) customers?
[/quote]
sure it is called observation
[/quote]
Isn’t this just like a cig. smoker complaining they were unaware of their risks? Who doesn’t know what they’re getting into when they conduct business with these organizations?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Besides my original objection of a business that systematically steals , defrauds and assaults the most vulnerable of us
[/quote]
So you’ve said.
Any evidence of payday loan companies that systematically steal, defraud, and assault their (willing) customers?
[/quote]
sure it is called observation
[/quote]
Just an FYI, Payday loan companies and any other banking institution such are subject to the oh so wonderful Patriot Act, Dodd-Frank, and several other Anti-Money Laundering, Sanction, Fair Treatment of Customer, etc, etc, etc.
It is like a smoker in some respects , it is like a drug addict in some respects .
They are terrible ways to get loans and probably a good percentage of people never repay the loans . But it is the ones that are trying to pull out of their funk . They are caught by the balls and may never escape
I know this is off subject , but if I were king of America . All fees would be worked in as part of the interest rate . Interest would be the fee you pay for borrowing the money . Good buy closing costs 
I moved from the Northeast to Texas in the early 70s. At that time there were blue laws & dry counties; payday & title loans were against the law, and people were prohibited from using the equitity in there homes for loan collateral. These laws were based on the conservative/religious views of the Baptists, Assemble of God, and Church of Christ. Over the course of forty years a more progressive approach has become popular and it is much different. I wish I could say better, but if I’m honest I can’t.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I know this is off subject , but if I were king of America . All fees would be worked in as part of the interest rate . Interest would be the fee you pay for borrowing the money . Good buy closing costs :)[/quote]
Except most costs associated with a closing are fixed, not variable.
And I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to pay interest for 30 years on my closing costs, thanks.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
Wow. Just wow.
It’s definitely a dick move that goes against pretty much all the principles America was founded upon, but I doubt they care too much about that.
The practicality of such a move is what really surprises me. I mean we’re not exactly talking about small industries here, so I think it’s safe to say there will be economic consequences. And what if the DOJ is successful and starts eradicating these undesirable business on a large scale? Well, seems like a great time for foreign businesses to pick up a greater market share of the North American porn industry. It’s also entirely possible that black markets emerge/grow in scale. Both situations are not exactly great for the economy. Plus, a lot of the people who will likely be affected most are marginalized populations (e.g. drug users, the poor, sex workers). If this means more people on welfare/incarcerated, then that means the regular American is paying for it too. Just who exactly is such an operation supposed to benefit, aside from the DOJ?
Better the devil you know…[/quote]
It doesn’t matter. This is illegal. I think the DOJ should be taken to court and the people responsible for this prosecuted in criminal court.
At the very, very least they should be banned from ever doing anything of this sort and be forced to pay back the money taken–or the disruption of banking pathways–with interest to compensate. Then the people running the thing should be fired.
This is unforgivable, no matter how undesirable the industry/people. You cannot and must not make any exceptions.[/quote]
Oh I don’t disagree with you in the slightest. I was just making the point that I don’t see how anybody has anything to gain off of such a doctrine.
But what should happen and what actually happens aren’t always the same thing. I could see affected businesses putting together a class action lawsuit, but given the DOJ’s resources, it might take awhile for them to make any progress. It would also be hard for industries that are viewed by society as “immoral” to arouse enough sympathy to aid their case.[/quote]
“First they came for the Jews…”-- M. Niemoller
The problem with being consistent is it doesn’t matter whether the industry is immoral or not. If you don’t stop it, it WILL eventually reach you and those whose opinions you agree with.[/quote]
Once again, I’m not disagreeing with you. The issue of public opinion is more of a practical one. A lot of people who DO believe these industries are immoral are going to be unwilling or less willing to step up and defend them. It may be hard for these industries to capture the public eye or arouse sympathy for jurors in the same way a charity that helps disabled children might. This could be detrimental to their cause.
For example, I don’t think pitt would be terribly willing to defend payday loan services even though they are the victims here and, more importantly, we are allowing a very dangerous precedent to come into place by not opposing these measures. Whether we believe the industry is immoral or not, the DOJ is doing something far more immoral and paternalistic.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Besides my original objection of a business that systematically steals , defrauds and assaults the most vulnerable of us
[/quote]
So, out of curiosity here, just how do you feel about the federal government?
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
it is just my opinion , Pay Day loans are exploiting the most vulnerable of our society . That is the reason for my loathing
[/quote]
OK, I accept your premise for the moment. But why do the most vulnerable of society avail themselves of these services? It’s not because they love getting charged %20 interest. It’s because traditional banking services are not available to them. So, by shutting down payday lenders you haven’t helped this vulnerable demographic, you’ve completely isolated them from any type of banking whatsoever.
[/quote]
because they are not as smart as you and I They have little to lose .
They don’t pay %20 interest they pay some times thousands percent interest
they need to be isolated from that type of loan [/quote]
20% compounded every 2 weeks equals several thousand percent per annuum. The point is it’s a payday loan. You don’t use them to buy a house, you use them to get you through until your next payday.
You also have to consider that it’s a high risk loan for the lender too. A lot of the people getting these loans are going to go bankrupt and have no capacity to repay.
What is the alternative? Do we force businesses to give “fair” loans to the poor that are not profitable to the businesses or do we refuse any and all loans to the poor? Pick your poison.[/quote]
In all honesty , I would think a bottom line in interest rates ???
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Besides my original objection of a business that systematically steals , defrauds and assaults the most vulnerable of us
[/quote]
So, out of curiosity here, just how do you feel about the federal government?[/quote]
I think they are a necessary evil ?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I know this is off subject , but if I were king of America . All fees would be worked in as part of the interest rate . Interest would be the fee you pay for borrowing the money . Good buy closing costs :)[/quote]
Except most costs associated with a closing are fixed, not variable.
And I don’t know about you, but I don’t want to pay interest for 30 years on my closing costs, thanks.[/quote]
but if you average $2000 with $2000 it is !00% but if you average $2000 with $20000 it is 10% and so on , Cost of loan / loan amount = interest
Simple, HEY
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
but if you average $2000 with $2000 it is !00% but if you average $2000 with $20000 it is 10% and so on , Cost of loan / loan amount = interest
Simple, HEY
[/quote]
Running a credit report costs the same whether the loan is for $100K or $1MM
Attorney’s fees are the same.
An inspection costs the same.
An appraisal fee costs the same.
A survey costs the same.
Title search fees cost the same.
A recording fee costs the same.
An underwriting fee costs the same.
Doc fees are the same.
lololololololololol
You got me Pittbull. I can usually tell when I’m being trolled, but not this time.
Nicely done.
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
but if you average $2000 with $2000 it is !00% but if you average $2000 with $20000 it is 10% and so on , Cost of loan / loan amount = interest
Simple, HEY
[/quote]
Running a credit report costs the same whether the loan is for $100K or $1MM
Attorney’s fees are the same.
An inspection costs the same.
An appraisal fee costs the same.
A survey costs the same.
Title search fees cost the same.
A recording fee costs the same.
An underwriting fee costs the same.
Doc fees are the same.
[/quote]
an inspection is a separate issue . It behooves the bank to title search. recording , fees are paid to county. No one surveys unless you are dividing a parcel or there is a dispute .it behooves the bank to appraise .
most of the charges you mentioned go to other entities
I am talking
Processing fees
origination fees
Document prep fees
and the like .
IMO if it behooves the bank , the bank should foot the bill .
and call it interest . it would be a more transparent transaction
Why, if you’re so concerned about the downtrodden, are you suggesting they pay interest on their credit check fee for 30 years?
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Have you ever seen a settlement statement before? Every fee is broken out. It can not get any more transparent than this. What do you want, the bank to break out it’s points and let you know how much goes to pay the electric and how much goes to pay the salaries of the tellers?
Why, if you’re so concerned about the downtrodden, are you suggesting they pay interest on their credit check fee for 30 years?[/quote]
i have not seen a settlement statement , the properties i have bought were cash at auctions , Is that a form for a realtor ?
I do know if you deal with bank 1 there are different charges than if you deal with bank 2 .
really you are going to charge for a credit check for a $200,000 loan ? I can understand running it but the bank has to pay for somethings . I would call it the price of doing business . And besides they already know your credit history with a click of the mouse
it is kind of like if I were selling my house and you wanted to buy it , you would approach me or your realtor would and ask me am I willing to pay your realtors commission . Either I am willing to allow it to cut into my profit or I am not . I do not have a special vehicle that allows me to charge you more than asking price with out your consent
The HUD1 is used in EVERY “transaction involving a federally related mortgage loan, which includes most loans secured by a lien (first or subordinate position) on residential property. This includes: home purchase loans, refinances, lender approved assumptions, property improvement loans, equity lines of credit, and reverse mortgages.”
Why are you commenting on something which you admittedly know nothing about?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
Have you ever seen a settlement statement before? Every fee is broken out. It can not get any more transparent than this. What do you want, the bank to break out it’s points and let you know how much goes to pay the electric and how much goes to pay the salaries of the tellers?
Why, if you’re so concerned about the downtrodden, are you suggesting they pay interest on their credit check fee for 30 years?[/quote]
i have not seen a settlement statement , the properties i have bought were cash at auctions , Is that a form for a realtor ?
I do know if you deal with bank 1 there are different charges than if you deal with bank 2 .
really you are going to charge for a credit check for a $200,000 loan ? I can understand running it but the bank has to pay for somethings . I would call it the price of doing business . And besides they already know your credit history with a click of the mouse
[/quote]
Everyone needs to get paid…think of it as a form of redistribution.
