DOJ Operation Choke Point Behind Porn Star Bank Account Closings

[system]

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I try and stay (mostly) apolitical, but I can only imagine the cognitive dissonance this is creating in some liberals right now.

A quick Google search shows a dearth of articles coming from traditionally left wing media organizations.

[/quote]

The media is largely just an appendage of the State.

I also can’t stand the “liberal” and “conservative” labels. You are either a “statist” or not. Obama, Clinton, Bush (both of them), Kerry, Boehner, Pelosi, and the RINOs are statists.

Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Dennis Kucinich, and others outside the establishment are not.

[Dr_Pangloss]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

it is just my opinion , Pay Day loans are exploiting the most vulnerable of our society . That is the reason for my loathing
[/quote]

OK, I accept your premise for the moment. But why do the most vulnerable of society avail themselves of these services? It’s not because they love getting charged %20 interest. It’s because traditional banking services are not available to them. So, by shutting down payday lenders you haven’t helped this vulnerable demographic, you’ve completely isolated them from any type of banking whatsoever.

[Jewbacca]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

I agree , but loaning money has a boat load of regulations (AND SHOULD)have so
[/quote]

Then pass a bill banning those type loans, if you can.

[/quote]

Such laws technically exist — “usury statutes” — but they were gutted by federal laws permitting nationally chartered banks to charge the interest rate permitted by their home state — laws championed by, Senator MasterCard aka Joe Biden.

You know, man of the people, Joe Biden. Senator from Delaware.

Delaware: the only state with no usury laws.

And Delaware is home to basically all nationally-chartered banks for this reason.

So, instead of fixing the monster (pay day loan companies) the Democrats created by their corruption, they do more corruption.

Joe Biden, Man of the People.

[countingbeans]

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

it is just my opinion , Pay Day loans are exploiting the most vulnerable of our society . That is the reason for my loathing
[/quote]

OK, I accept your premise for the moment. But why do the most vulnerable of society avail themselves of these services? It’s not because they love getting charged %20 interest. It’s because traditional banking services are not available to them. So, by shutting down payday lenders you haven’t helped this vulnerable demographic, you’ve completely isolated them from any type of banking whatsoever.

[/quote]

But it feels good. Feeling has long since replaced thought.

[countingbeans]

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Such laws technically exist — “usury statutes” —[/quote]

knew this, but didn’t connect the dots. Good point

[quote]

Delaware: the only state with no usury laws. [/quote]

Did not know this, however.

Interesting.

[Jewbacca]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

Such laws technically exist — “usury statutes” —[/quote]

knew this, but didn’t connect the dots. Good point

Delaware: the only state with no usury laws. [/quote]

Did not know this, however.

Interesting.

To be completely correct, DE technically has usury laws, but then has exceptions that cover basically any possible sort of loan (except I guess whatever industry was not politically connected to get an exemption).

[Apoklyps]

Wow. Just wow.

It’s definitely a dick move that goes against pretty much all the principles America was founded upon, but I doubt they care too much about that.

The practicality of such a move is what really surprises me. I mean we’re not exactly talking about small industries here, so I think it’s safe to say there will be economic consequences. And what if the DOJ is successful and starts eradicating these undesirable business on a large scale? Well, seems like a great time for foreign businesses to pick up a greater market share of the North American porn industry. It’s also entirely possible that black markets emerge/grow in scale. Both situations are not exactly great for the economy. Plus, a lot of the people who will likely be affected most are marginalized populations (e.g. drug users, the poor, sex workers). If this means more people on welfare/incarcerated, then that means the regular American is paying for it too. Just who exactly is such an operation supposed to benefit, aside from the DOJ?

Better the devil you know…

[SexMachine]

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
I try and stay (mostly) apolitical, but I can only imagine the cognitive dissonance this is creating in some liberals right now.

A quick Google search shows a dearth of articles coming from traditionally left wing media organizations.

[/quote]

The media is largely just an appendage of the State.

I also can’t stand the “liberal” and “conservative” labels. You are either a “statist” or not. Obama, Clinton, Bush (both of them), Kerry, Boehner, Pelosi, and the RINOs are statists.

Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, Dennis Kucinich, and others outside the establishment are not. [/quote]

You do know that(amongst other things) Kucinich is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, tried to ban handguns and voted yes to Obamacare right?

[pittbulll]

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

it is just my opinion , Pay Day loans are exploiting the most vulnerable of our society . That is the reason for my loathing
[/quote]

OK, I accept your premise for the moment. But why do the most vulnerable of society avail themselves of these services? It’s not because they love getting charged %20 interest. It’s because traditional banking services are not available to them. So, by shutting down payday lenders you haven’t helped this vulnerable demographic, you’ve completely isolated them from any type of banking whatsoever.

[/quote]

because they are not as smart as you and I They have little to lose .

They don’t pay %20 interest they pay some times thousands percent interest

Payday loan

they need to be isolated from that type of loan

[pittbulll]

I still say the reason for the spot light is Marijuana . It is a big issue . Wait till some one finds out where all the money is stashed and there is a small battle over it . Innocent people will die then they will get the lead out and do something .

Oh they will blame it on those eveil people Marijuana Dealers

[Apoklyps]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

it is just my opinion , Pay Day loans are exploiting the most vulnerable of our society . That is the reason for my loathing
[/quote]

OK, I accept your premise for the moment. But why do the most vulnerable of society avail themselves of these services? It’s not because they love getting charged %20 interest. It’s because traditional banking services are not available to them. So, by shutting down payday lenders you haven’t helped this vulnerable demographic, you’ve completely isolated them from any type of banking whatsoever.

[/quote]

because they are not as smart as you and I They have little to lose .

They don’t pay %20 interest they pay some times thousands percent interest

Payday loan

they need to be isolated from that type of loan [/quote]

20% compounded every 2 weeks equals several thousand percent per annuum. The point is it’s a payday loan. You don’t use them to buy a house, you use them to get you through until your next payday.

You also have to consider that it’s a high risk loan for the lender too. A lot of the people getting these loans are going to go bankrupt and have no capacity to repay.

What is the alternative? Do we force businesses to give “fair” loans to the poor that are not profitable to the businesses or do we refuse any and all loans to the poor? Pick your poison.

[countingbeans]

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

it is just my opinion , Pay Day loans are exploiting the most vulnerable of our society . That is the reason for my loathing
[/quote]

OK, I accept your premise for the moment. But why do the most vulnerable of society avail themselves of these services? It’s not because they love getting charged %20 interest. It’s because traditional banking services are not available to them. So, by shutting down payday lenders you haven’t helped this vulnerable demographic, you’ve completely isolated them from any type of banking whatsoever.

[/quote]

because they are not as smart as you and I They have little to lose .

They don’t pay %20 interest they pay some times thousands percent interest

Payday loan

they need to be isolated from that type of loan [/quote]

20% compounded every 2 weeks equals several thousand percent per annuum. The point is it’s a payday loan. You don’t use them to buy a house, you use them to get you through until your next payday.

You also have to consider that it’s a high risk loan for the lender too. A lot of the people getting these loans are going to go bankrupt and have no capacity to repay.

What is the alternative? Do we force businesses to give “fair” loans to the poor that are not profitable to the businesses or do we refuse any and all loans to the poor? Pick your poison.[/quote]

lol, don’t mind pitt, he just knows the government is smarter than the people so they have to protect everyone from themselves.

[Aragorn]

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
Wow. Just wow.

It’s definitely a dick move that goes against pretty much all the principles America was founded upon, but I doubt they care too much about that.

The practicality of such a move is what really surprises me. I mean we’re not exactly talking about small industries here, so I think it’s safe to say there will be economic consequences. And what if the DOJ is successful and starts eradicating these undesirable business on a large scale? Well, seems like a great time for foreign businesses to pick up a greater market share of the North American porn industry. It’s also entirely possible that black markets emerge/grow in scale. Both situations are not exactly great for the economy. Plus, a lot of the people who will likely be affected most are marginalized populations (e.g. drug users, the poor, sex workers). If this means more people on welfare/incarcerated, then that means the regular American is paying for it too. Just who exactly is such an operation supposed to benefit, aside from the DOJ?

Better the devil you know…[/quote]

It doesn’t matter. This is illegal. I think the DOJ should be taken to court and the people responsible for this prosecuted in criminal court.

At the very, very least they should be banned from ever doing anything of this sort and be forced to pay back the money taken–or the disruption of banking pathways–with interest to compensate. Then the people running the thing should be fired.

This is unforgivable, no matter how undesirable the industry/people. You cannot and must not make any exceptions.

[Apoklyps]

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
Wow. Just wow.

It’s definitely a dick move that goes against pretty much all the principles America was founded upon, but I doubt they care too much about that.

The practicality of such a move is what really surprises me. I mean we’re not exactly talking about small industries here, so I think it’s safe to say there will be economic consequences. And what if the DOJ is successful and starts eradicating these undesirable business on a large scale? Well, seems like a great time for foreign businesses to pick up a greater market share of the North American porn industry. It’s also entirely possible that black markets emerge/grow in scale. Both situations are not exactly great for the economy. Plus, a lot of the people who will likely be affected most are marginalized populations (e.g. drug users, the poor, sex workers). If this means more people on welfare/incarcerated, then that means the regular American is paying for it too. Just who exactly is such an operation supposed to benefit, aside from the DOJ?

Better the devil you know…[/quote]

It doesn’t matter. This is illegal. I think the DOJ should be taken to court and the people responsible for this prosecuted in criminal court.

At the very, very least they should be banned from ever doing anything of this sort and be forced to pay back the money taken–or the disruption of banking pathways–with interest to compensate. Then the people running the thing should be fired.

This is unforgivable, no matter how undesirable the industry/people. You cannot and must not make any exceptions.[/quote]

Oh I don’t disagree with you in the slightest. I was just making the point that I don’t see how anybody has anything to gain off of such a doctrine.

But what should happen and what actually happens aren’t always the same thing. I could see affected businesses putting together a class action lawsuit, but given the DOJ’s resources, it might take awhile for them to make any progress. It would also be hard for industries that are viewed by society as “immoral” to arouse enough sympathy to aid their case.

[pittbulll]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

it is just my opinion , Pay Day loans are exploiting the most vulnerable of our society . That is the reason for my loathing
[/quote]

OK, I accept your premise for the moment. But why do the most vulnerable of society avail themselves of these services? It’s not because they love getting charged %20 interest. It’s because traditional banking services are not available to them. So, by shutting down payday lenders you haven’t helped this vulnerable demographic, you’ve completely isolated them from any type of banking whatsoever.

[/quote]

because they are not as smart as you and I They have little to lose .

They don’t pay %20 interest they pay some times thousands percent interest

Payday loan

they need to be isolated from that type of loan [/quote]

20% compounded every 2 weeks equals several thousand percent per annuum. The point is it’s a payday loan. You don’t use them to buy a house, you use them to get you through until your next payday.

You also have to consider that it’s a high risk loan for the lender too. A lot of the people getting these loans are going to go bankrupt and have no capacity to repay.

What is the alternative? Do we force businesses to give “fair” loans to the poor that are not profitable to the businesses or do we refuse any and all loans to the poor? Pick your poison.[/quote]

lol, don’t mind pitt, he just knows the government is smarter than the people so they have to protect everyone from themselves. [/quote]

I also feel compelled to mention i am for Rules that govern children so they do not beat some one up and take their lunch money . I also am in favor of laws that would jail some one from defrauding money from others .

Besides my original objection of a business that systematically steals , defrauds and assaults the most vulnerable of us

[Aragorn]

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
Wow. Just wow.

It’s definitely a dick move that goes against pretty much all the principles America was founded upon, but I doubt they care too much about that.

The practicality of such a move is what really surprises me. I mean we’re not exactly talking about small industries here, so I think it’s safe to say there will be economic consequences. And what if the DOJ is successful and starts eradicating these undesirable business on a large scale? Well, seems like a great time for foreign businesses to pick up a greater market share of the North American porn industry. It’s also entirely possible that black markets emerge/grow in scale. Both situations are not exactly great for the economy. Plus, a lot of the people who will likely be affected most are marginalized populations (e.g. drug users, the poor, sex workers). If this means more people on welfare/incarcerated, then that means the regular American is paying for it too. Just who exactly is such an operation supposed to benefit, aside from the DOJ?

Better the devil you know…[/quote]

It doesn’t matter. This is illegal. I think the DOJ should be taken to court and the people responsible for this prosecuted in criminal court.

At the very, very least they should be banned from ever doing anything of this sort and be forced to pay back the money taken–or the disruption of banking pathways–with interest to compensate. Then the people running the thing should be fired.

This is unforgivable, no matter how undesirable the industry/people. You cannot and must not make any exceptions.[/quote]

Oh I don’t disagree with you in the slightest. I was just making the point that I don’t see how anybody has anything to gain off of such a doctrine.

But what should happen and what actually happens aren’t always the same thing. I could see affected businesses putting together a class action lawsuit, but given the DOJ’s resources, it might take awhile for them to make any progress. It would also be hard for industries that are viewed by society as “immoral” to arouse enough sympathy to aid their case.[/quote]

“First they came for the Jews…”-- M. Niemoller

The problem with being consistent is it doesn’t matter whether the industry is immoral or not. If you don’t stop it, it WILL eventually reach you and those whose opinions you agree with.

[Dr_Pangloss]

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Besides my original objection of a business that systematically steals , defrauds and assaults the most vulnerable of us
[/quote]

So you’ve said.

Any evidence of payday loan companies that systematically steal, defraud, and assault their (willing) customers?