Doing Westside Method Naturally

Training Powerlifting
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What’s nice about the box squat (not the squat to a box), is that it does a really good job developing explosive hip power. When I keep box squats in rotation, I just pop right out of the hole so if I do have a sticking point it’s higher up where I have a real chance of grinding it out.

It’s also a great mobility tool. Many people want to accordion squat and the box squat will help with both the moving the hips back and getting the knees out which are missing in the accordion squat. Just start with the lowest box possible to squat properly and just try to go lower and lower as a progression instead of weight or reps and you’ll build the abililty to display hip drive through a greater range of motion.

They really are easier to recover from. An ME comp. squat will burn me out for a couple weeks. But if I box squat, it’s not nearly as bad. They don’t seem to cause as many issues overall compared to a comp squat, but they can bang up your hips and hip flexors if done too much. Louis Simmons says to use PL briefs or a lose suit for box squats. I find keeping the box just a little higher than parallel helps spare the hips a lot.

I do poorly if all I do is box squat. Now, I at least always include front squats and olympic squats to maintain the ability to stay upright enough and build my legs.

I don’t think I’ve actuallly seen a properly done box squat at any gym I’ve gone to. Make sure you do your homework learning how to do it properly if you’re going to do it at all.

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I prefer a pause squat to a box squat and a SSB squat to a front squat, but thats just me. I really went hard hammering my quads in my last training cycle and that came with a lot of SSB squats for reps.

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Another thing - I squat AND deadlift on every “lower” day. It consolidates the stressors and is more realistic for a meet day prep. When I am several weeks out I will hit heavy reps on both for my ME work then use a good morning, pause squat, SSB squat, SLDL or something for my supplemental work after. As meet day gets closer and i need to hit heavy singles, I may just go moderate weight on the squat then work up to my opener on the dead (or vice versa) with no supplemental lift just some hamstring accessory after.

Its a lot to take in. It took me several months of reading and attempting and even working with an online coach to where im now at the point that im comfortable to design my own training cycles around conjugate principles.

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I started Westside Naturally (body ethic) at the age of 43 weighing 173#.

Two years later at age 45 I weighted in at 210# with all lifts going through the roof.

I do though own my own Bigger, Faster, Stronger GHR, 200# of 5/8" chain, Lifting Large Bands.

Also, I paid strict attention to my Psychological state, my breathing, Sleep patterns, Nutrition,

and how my training was going. Nice when you get to work around Olympic and Elite Athletes

who help keep my Consistent and Motivated to do your best.

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It works perfectly fine for both natural and raw lifters. Dave Tate has made plenty of beginner westside programs to get you started, they all seem to work for the average intermediate weaknesses (triceps, back/abs, hamstrings/glutes).You can give one a ride and see how the methods treat you, and go from there.

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Conjugate training is a method, it doesn’t prescribe any particular lifts or volume. Sure, there are templates, but if you feel like those won’t work then make a new one for yourself. The only thing that conjugate tells you to do (loosely quoting Elite FTS here) ME Method - Lifting heavy stuff to build strength, DE Method - Lifting Moderate weights explosively, Repetition Method - Lifting light stuff for a lot of reps to build muscle.

So yes, you can do it naturally.

1 Like
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It’s to be expected to find 531 boring if only following the exact template. 531 is, in my opinion one of the longest strung methods of progression but the nice thing about it is it’s very difficult to plateau on it if you follow it right. Also to be fair, can you really rag on 531 in comparison to texas method given that you earlier mentioned texas method didn’t give you that great of results? 531 isn’t the type of programming to hit for 3 months then retest to jump your maxes 50lbs. It’s the type to run block after block and then a year later you are doing your (now current) max for the 5+ set on week one…if not sooner than then.

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Keep in mind that when you look at percentages for DE work, it’s actually a lot heavier than it looks. Let me explain.

A DE cycle without chains or bands would be about 55% to 60% of a comp max. A comp max for Louie’s guys is a free squat with multiply gear.

Now first off, the box for DE work could shave about 10-15% off your max. Second, Louie recomends squatting in either just briefs or a squat suit with the straps down. This will take more off of that max. I don’t lift with gear so I’m really not sure how much that takes away, but for the sake of argument lets go with 10% if just squatting with briefs. There’s also the intangible of the comp. atmosphere which can give some people a rush that can help and peaking for the meet.

So we’re looking at shaving 20-25% off that max. So lets say someone’s geared squat is 500lb. 55% of that is 275. But because of the box and not as much gear and , the max off of that box is 375-400lb. So the true percentage of the maximum off of the box with less than comp gear is 69-73% of that max. At the end of the cycle with 60%, what comes out to 75% to 80%.

Now these are the numbers for advanced guys. A beginner would use 5-10% more since the beginner is less efficient and won’t wear themselves out as quick since they can’t put everything they have into the lift. So that might be a cycle in the high 70’s percentage through the low 80’s for 8-12 sets of 2.

When you’re putting everything you have into each and every individual rep to make these weights go fast, this gets really really hard!

So when you look at these percentages, this is not light work at all. It’s actually moderately heavy. So the real idea isn’t to move light weights fast. It’s to move these moderately heavy weights fast.

If you use free squats, you might want to reduce the volume since they’ll wear you down more especially if you’re moving the weight fast.

So basically, this brings us back to Fred Hatfields idea of CAT (compensatory acceleration training) of moving weights as fast as possible for low reps and many sets through the percentage range of 70-85% since that’s the range where the most power can be displayed.

Funny how things have a way of going full circle :slight_smile:

Now with bench, Louie says to use 50% of a raw bench max. But this is with bands.

Let’s say that max is 300lb. 50% of that is 150lbs. But with double mini bands, you add about 40lbs in the bottom position. So it’s more like 60-65% of that max. But the tension at the top will add about 90lbs. That’s about 240lb at top bringing it to about 80% at the top.

So again, we’re back at Fred Hatfield’s idea of CAT in the 70-85% range.

If you don’t get anything else out of this, then just remember to move moderately heavy weights very fast using low reps and many sets for DE work.

1 Like
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@Fletch1986 Now I’ve read the “Standard Template” by Jim Wendler and he says use 50-60% of your 1RM for DE. However DE is done with either doubles for Lower Body or triples for Upper Body. So I guess this brings it more towards the 70% range when you think of your 2RM or 3RM. 85% seems like alot for example 0.85*405(squat) = ~345 for a double. That is a weight that I don’t think I’ll be able to move explosively or fast.

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85% for most people will be about a 5 rep max. Prilepin’s table suggest doing 10-20 reps at this percentage. 8 sets of 2 falls in that. Now in the example I used for suggesting a weight that goes into the 80’s would be the typical beginner who will be able to recover from using that kind of weight a lot better. A more advanced lifter would only flirt with percentages in the 80s if they see it at all.

Not to mention, there is individual variability. Some people might need to use lower weights to get the right training effect. Others will be able to push it a little higher.

But for the most part, you’ll be sticking with 70-80% which is what was in my above post. Typically if you see speed work in any program with ~85%, it’ll be singles. Like EMOM work.

Speaking of which, try that with deadlift. Taking 80-85% and doing EMOM with it using CAT. If you’re doing it within a Westside template and you decide to do that, you might need modify the volume of the squats. Or take something away from assistance. Or lower the percentage at which you train the pull for EMOM. Nothing has enforced good form more and it did great things for my work capacity.

In the box squat example, what I posted there is almost perfectly in line with the standad template. I got my percentages from Dave Tate’s squat manual. In that manual, he suggest using 10% more for raw lifters. This is from that manual:

[quote]Beginner:
Week 1: 63% for 10 sets of 2 reps
Week 2: 65% for 10 sets of 2 reps
Week 3: 68% for 10 sets of 2 reps

You’ll notice the beginner has a couple more sets than the advanced and intermediate lifter. This is to improve the form of the lifter. The main goal of the beginner is to have perfect form, so in many cases ten sets still won’t be enough and should be taken as high as twelve sets.

Intermediate:
Week 1: 60% for 8 sets of 2 reps
Week 2: 63% for 8 sets of 2 reps
Week 3: 65% for 8 sets of 2 reps

Advanced:
Week 1: 55% for 8 sets of 2 reps
Week 2: 58% for 8 sets of 2 reps
Week 3: 60% for 8 sets of 2 reps[/quote]

So if you yourself are intermediate to advanced, you won’t be benching or squatting 85% and that can be seen in my above post.

So if we take these %'s from Dave Tate and add the 10% as recommended for the raw lifter, we end up with 73-78% of a box squat max for 8 sets of 2 moving the bar as fast as possible.

I think you missed the forest for the trees. Trees that didn’t exist in the same way you saw them. It happens to me to at times too :slight_smile:

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I completely agree with you. Reading into it, Jim Wendler said his wife just had a baby around the time he created the program. He also was coming down off much more intense lifting. As a beginner program, I think it would be good. But I just was bored.