Dog Fighting = Good Workout

[quote]MikeShank wrote:
Hey Zap,

Mike Cruickshank here. I had a couple questions about your response.

  1. While I am familiar that there are several third world societies that still have organized dog fights (i.e. Afghanistan sp?) I am not aware of any developed country which in the last 100 years or so has viewed the practice as acceptable.

  2. I am not familiar what the state of dog fighting is in your area, I can only speak about where I am from (Trenton, Philly, Camden area). Dog fighting was a serious problem in Trenton about 10 years ago before a huge public outcry let to a massive police crackdown. To show how public involvement can affect this issue, dog fighting has gone down tremendously in our area.

Regardless, I have never heard of one case in which the breeders actually care for these dogs. In our area, the practice is to let the dogs fight for some time, up to an hour in some cases.

The end result is that one dog will and is expected to die. I am not sure what, if any medical care could help the animals given the often extreme extent of the injuries.

In all, I don’t know how any civilized culture could find a way to rationalize this as being acceptable.

One of my clients, who was a trenton cop for some time, told me that he was doing undercover work on a local trenton gang. Often times, drugs, weapons, and gang crime are tied intimately with dog fighting contests. He told me of a story of a man who dragged he child to one of these events.

My client told me that the only time he almost lost it in his entire undercover career was when he turned around and saw the child crying while all the other people in the room were laughing because one of the dogs was killed and was leaking piss and shit out after he died.

It’s a true story which should put this practice and the people who engage in it within a proper perspective.

Zap Branigan wrote:
I am not going to defend dog fighting but it is a popular sport that has been practiced by many cultures throughout the ages.

The point is not to maim the dogs but to create competition and place bets.

The dog owners do not want to see their animals badly hurt or killed.

Laws against it have driven it underground and probably prevented many dogs from getting the post fight care they need.

Not that I want to legalize it this is something to think about.

Regarding Vick, I have had enough of this jackass. Between giving women herpes under his alias Ron Mexico, his stupid water bottle incident and the dog fighting he looks like a bad apple. His brother Marcus is also a jerk.

Under the NFL’s new conduct policies he should probably be suspended if he can be tied to the dog fighting.

[/quote]

Wow that’s funny last i checked it was still legal in the Yukrain. And it was outlawed inthe U.S. like whate 40 years ago with the animal welfare act.

Being a fighter I completely respect the American Pit Bull Terrier and what it was breed for. I would not by one unless it was gametested. Heck that would be like buying a retriever that doesn’t retrieve

I know plenty of owners that love their dogs and know their dogs. most of them good ol’ boys not gang members. To them they are like part of the family. Maybe that’s the problem gangsters and drug dealers can take anything and turn it into shit.

I have had 3 pits in my life and valued them more then I do most people. And if I wouldn’t go to jail for it would defintely train my dog for an atheletic event.

And as far as the guy who likes to kick dogs. Trust me it wasn’t a pit. Because in breeding gameness into a pit you breed out the human aggression at least the good breeders do. And if it was a pit and it did want to hurt you the owner would be finding you an eternal resting place in the swamp down the road at least I would have to.

And further whoever says fighting is barbaric is an imbicile. It is way of showing dominance and establishing a hierarchy through social cues. I think our society today is dominated by loud sociopaths.

Ones who tell us we are wrong for defending our family and loved ones. Ones who make it possible for a criminal to break into your house rape your wife and steal your shit then sue you for spraining their ankle. Or what’s worse you catch him before he can do what he set out to do and shoot him and you go to jail. I’ll stop moving off subject.

A dog fight is like a wreslting match but they don’t have apposable thumbs so they need something to hold on with. At least “from what I hear”. I even believe during the civil war President lincoln used to stage one of these events the night before a tough battle to show his troops true perserverance and to give them inspiration.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
it is a popular sport that has been practiced by many cultures throughout the ages.[/quote]

So was pederasty.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Mousse wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I don’t condone dog fighting but I believe it is not the same type of animal abuse that is normally found in sociopaths.

we’ll just call them social deviants then; that work for ya?

Not even. Just callous to that method of dying, like a person who becomes callous to killing chickens for food. The average american can’t imagine doing that. What do you suggest the people that do are social deviants?
[/quote]

Yeh, that is exactly what I am saying. To put it mildly they are at a minimum social deviants. Just because they are callous to the brutality of it does not make it excusable. I might also argue that “underground” = not socially acceptable behavior; ie. deviants.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
As I said I am not condoning it merey pointing out that it is not the type of animal abuse normal associated with sociopaths. [/quote]

For someone who it not “condoning” it, you seem to be going out of your way to defend and justify it.

I always thought you were just a sarcastic dude. Now I realize you’ve got some problems.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

And as far as the guy who likes to kick dogs. Trust me it wasn’t a pit. Because in breeding gameness into a pit you breed out the human aggression at least the good breeders do. And if it was a pit and it did want to hurt you the owner would be finding you an eternal resting place in the swamp down the road at least I would have to.

[/quote]

If you are referring to me – I don’t “like” to kick dogs. I would rather go for a run, mind my own business, and make it home without being accosted by some useless animal. As far as the last breed that attacked me, it was one of those kind, nice, never would hurt anybody, chocolate labs.

Anyway, these days most of the time I run armed – so Pit bull or not, the dog will die.

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
it is a popular sport that has been practiced by many cultures throughout the ages.

So was pederasty. [/quote]

As a sport?

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
As I said I am not condoning it merey pointing out that it is not the type of animal abuse normal associated with sociopaths.

For someone who it not “condoning” it, you seem to be going out of your way to defend and justify it.

I always thought you were just a sarcastic dude. Now I realize you’ve got some problems. [/quote]

We all have problems. Dog fighting is not one of mine. Yours are self evident.

[quote]mmllcc wrote:
apbt55 wrote:

And as far as the guy who likes to kick dogs. Trust me it wasn’t a pit. Because in breeding gameness into a pit you breed out the human aggression at least the good breeders do. And if it was a pit and it did want to hurt you the owner would be finding you an eternal resting place in the swamp down the road at least I would have to.

If you are referring to me – I don’t “like” to kick dogs. I would rather go for a run, mind my own business, and make it home without being accosted by some useless animal. As far as the last breed that attacked me, it was one of those kind, nice, never would hurt anybody, chocolate labs.

Anyway, these days most of the time I run armed – so Pit bull or not, the dog will die.[/quote]

How many dogs have you killed?

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
mmllcc wrote:
apbt55 wrote:

And as far as the guy who likes to kick dogs. Trust me it wasn’t a pit. Because in breeding gameness into a pit you breed out the human aggression at least the good breeders do. And if it was a pit and it did want to hurt you the owner would be finding you an eternal resting place in the swamp down the road at least I would have to.

If you are referring to me – I don’t “like” to kick dogs. I would rather go for a run, mind my own business, and make it home without being accosted by some useless animal. As far as the last breed that attacked me, it was one of those kind, nice, never would hurt anybody, chocolate labs.

Anyway, these days most of the time I run armed – so Pit bull or not, the dog will die.

How many dogs have you killed?[/quote]

If you are refering to me then none. I have let my dogs go after a bob cat once, it was killing a neigbors calves as they were being born in the pasture. Some coyotes and racoons, but I would probably kill someone if they killed one of my dogs.

mmllcc

As far the the dog that attacks you. That is the owners fault. I have had plenty of times Running my dogs where neighbors dogs were allowed to rome free constantly and I would have to pick up my pit and keep the other dogs away. I would hate to have to tell the neighbor girl that her 100+ lb rottie had it’s throat torn out by my 34 lb pit because her father didn’t realize he should keep his dog under control.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:

How many dogs have you killed?[/quote]

How many breaths have I taken? Who knows. You stop counting after a while. I can tell you the last dog I killed was last week. It pulled a slat out of my fence and started eating my cat’s food. (Yes I have cats – at least they don’t eat children).

This was the third time it has done this, and yes I am a civilized person so I talked to the neighbors about it and they did nothing. Anyway I go outside to chase it off and it turns and stands it’s ground. I walk back inside, get my gun and plugged it. End of story.

By the way – I don’t live in city limits so yes, I can fire off a gun in my yard.

Sorry I should have included I have not seen anything on this story. I saw the title and thought they were training dog fighting and got a good workout. Dog Fighting being a scramble in an MMA BJJ or wrestling match.

I also do not condone the brutal massacre of animals. I do not see letting an animal doing what it’s genetics are telling it to do as that.

I fight because I like it. I could tell my pits wanted to go at other dogs. And I hate the constraints society puts on us so understand my dogs frustration.

But I would not let him kill the neighbors dog for fun and would not let him chase my neighbor.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Sorry I should have included I have not seen anything on this story. I saw the title and thought they were training dog fighting and got a good workout. Dog Fighting being a scramble in an MMA BJJ or wrestling match.

I also do not condone the brutal massacre of animals. I do not see letting an animal doing what it’s genetics are telling it to do as that.

I fight because I like it. I could tell my pits wanted to go at other dogs. And I hate the constraints society puts on us so understand my dogs frustration.

But I would not let him kill the neighbors dog for fun and would not let him chase my neighbor.[/quote]

I understand exactly. This type of dog fighting is barbaric. Not all dog fighting has been that way.

I think that most people that condone dog fighting are hypocrites. If you support or watch the kentucky derby, you’ll see horse racing is getting a free pass.

They shoot the horses up with a ton of drugs, run them into the ground and then sell them for horsemeat by the lb. when they are done.

Plus, like others have said, dog fighting is done all over the world. So what if you stop it in the US, you’re not stopping it.

[quote]mmllcc wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:

How many dogs have you killed?

How many breath’s have I taken? Who knows. You stop counting after a while. I can tell you the last dog I killed was last week. It pulled a slat out of my fence and started eating my cat’s food. (Yes I have cats – at least they don’t eat children). This was the third time it has done this, and yes I am a civilized person so I talked to the neighbors about it and they did nothing. Anyway I go outside to chase it off and it turns and stands it’s ground. I walk back inside, get my gun and plugged it. End of story.

By the way – I don’t live in city limits so yes, I can fire off a gun in my yard.[/quote]

You, are an asshole.

[quote]apbt55 wrote:
Wow that’s funny last i checked it was still legal in the Yukrain. And it was outlawed inthe U.S. like whate 40 years ago with the animal welfare act.

Being a fighter I completely respect the American Pit Bull Terrier and what it was breed for. I would not by one unless it was gametested. Heck that would be like buying a retriever that doesn’t retrieve

I know plenty of owners that love their dogs and know their dogs. most of them good ol’ boys not gang members. To them they are like part of the family. Maybe that’s the problem gangsters and drug dealers can take anything and turn it into shit.

I have had 3 pits in my life and valued them more then I do most people. And if I wouldn’t go to jail for it would defintely train my dog for an atheletic event.

And as far as the guy who likes to kick dogs. Trust me it wasn’t a pit. Because in breeding gameness into a pit you breed out the human aggression at least the good breeders do. And if it was a pit and it did want to hurt you the owner would be finding you an eternal resting place in the swamp down the road at least I would have to.

And further whoever says fighting is barbaric is an imbicile. It is way of showing dominance and establishing a hierarchy through social cues. I think our society today is dominated by loud sociopaths.

Ones who tell us we are wrong for defending our family and loved ones. Ones who make it possible for a criminal to break into your house rape your wife and steal your shit then sue you for spraining their ankle. Or what’s worse you catch him before he can do what he set out to do and shoot him and you go to jail. I’ll stop moving off subject.

A dog fight is like a wreslting match but they don’t have apposable thumbs so they need something to hold on with. At least “from what I hear”. I even believe during the civil war President lincoln used to stage one of these events the night before a tough battle to show his troops true perserverance and to give them inspiration.
[/quote]

Athletic event??? Are you seriously this stupid?

A way of establishing hierarchy through dominance? If they are running in packs. Not in a pit, to the death.

A dog fight is like a wrestling match? I can only hope a pit takes a crotch shot on you so you can’t breed.

You claim you’re a fighter so next time you roll with someone, I hope they take their hands, with opposable thumbs, and crush your trachea. It’s only establishing social dominance in an athletic event after all.

[quote]mmllcc wrote:
I find that dog owners are some of the most inconsiderate people I know next to smokers.

They let dogs out to poop on your lawn, crap in the park, tear your garbage up, and terrorize the local populace. While running I have been attacked 4 times in the last 4 years and my wife was attacked once while riding her bike. Dogs are one of the top killers of people in the U.S.

Those that do not let out to roam free bark all day and all night long, dig under your fence and continue to be a nuisance.

Then if you visit somebody’s house that owns a dog, many times the dog will jump on you or nip at you (depending on size) and the owner will do nothing, or very little, to stop it.

[/quote]

Good post! But it is not the dog’s fault. Irresponsible dog owners deserve a good beating! I hate those fucking assholes!

[quote]mmllcc wrote:
I find that dog owners are some of the most inconsiderate people I know next to smokers.

They let dogs out to poop on your lawn, crap in the park, tear your garbage up, and terrorize the local populace. While running I have been attacked 4 times in the last 4 years and my wife was attacked once while riding her bike. Dogs are one of the top killers of people in the U.S.[/quote]

Could you cite a source for this statistic, please?

What a terrible blanket statement. Some do. It is entirely possible that many of these dogs don’t, but you just don’t realize this because their thoughtful owners take care to train them to not be so intrusive in the lives of others.

[quote]Then if you visit somebody’s house that owns a dog, many times the dog will jump on you or nip at you (depending on size) and the owner will do nothing, or very little, to stop it.

I could care less that dogs are pitted to kill each other. They do that on their own anyway. And when they don’t they pack up to kill people or whatever they happen to run into.[/quote]

Wow.

[quote]I personally kill very dog I have opportunity to kill. The last dog that attacked me did so right in front of the owner. I was jogging down the road and it ran out of the yard and jumped at me to try and bite me. I turned around and kicked the hell out of it till it ran away. The owner didn’t even say sorry. Next time I see the dog around I will kill it.

I get a good work out thinking about how to waste dogs…[/quote]

What a fucking creep. Hey, CaliforniaLaw, I think we found one of those sociopaths you were talking about.

[quote]mmllcc wrote:

How many breath’s have I taken? Who knows. You stop counting after a while. I can tell you the last dog I killed was last week. It pulled a slat out of my fence and started eating my cat’s food. (Yes I have cats – at least they don’t eat children). This was the third time it has done this, and yes I am a civilized person so I talked to the neighbors about it and they did nothing. Anyway I go outside to chase it off and it turns and stands it’s ground. I walk back inside, get my gun and plugged it. End of story.

By the way – I don’t live in city limits so yes, I can fire off a gun in my yard.[/quote]

You killed an animal that was likely being abused and was simply looking for food. Congratulations on such an amazing accomplishment. Have you ever considered contacting your local animal shelter and possibly having them investigate your neighbors for animal neglect?

Civilized? Far from it.

[quote]nikolo wrote:

You claim you’re a fighter so next time you roll with someone, I hope they take their hands, with opposable thumbs, and crush your trachea. It’s only establishing social dominance in an athletic event after all.[/quote]

Oh First off I have never fought my dog in a pit against another dog. I grew up with two uncles that were old dogmen, but got out of it with the animal welfare act of 67. They still breed them so that is where I get my puppies from.

And you obviously have no idea of what a fight is because if you think someone is going to get a chance to crush my trachea with their thumbs you grew up watching the karate kid too much or something. I train in real fighting arts and have exeprience fighting for real. And guess what when I get a chance to step in the cage the pits tattooed on my back wag their tails. They love the fact that they are remembered. They are an honored an noble breed of dog and many people in todays society could take a lesson from them.

In breeding pits they have something called culling. If an animal has an undesirable trait you don’t breed that animal so you don’t pass on that trait. To bad we can’t do that with Patsy little nancy ass prisses found today.

Oh and if still feel the urge to crush my trachia with your apposable thumbs that is your right. But as far as someone I train with doing it I highly doubt that. They love coming over and playing with my dog and most of them own pits themselves.

[quote]Mr. Clean & Jerk wrote:
mmllcc wrote:
I find that dog owners are some of the most inconsiderate people I know next to smokers.

They let dogs out to poop on your lawn, crap in the park, tear your garbage up, and terrorize the local populace. While running I have been attacked 4 times in the last 4 years and my wife was attacked once while riding her bike. Dogs are one of the top killers of people in the U.S.

Could you cite a source for this statistic, please?

Those that do not let out to roam free bark all day and all night long, dig under your fence and continue to be a nuisance.

What a terrible blanket statement. Some do. It is entirely possible that many of these dogs don’t, but you just don’t realize this because their thoughtful owners take care to train them to not be so intrusive in the lives of others.

Then if you visit somebody’s house that owns a dog, many times the dog will jump on you or nip at you (depending on size) and the owner will do nothing, or very little, to stop it.

I could care less that dogs are pitted to kill each other. They do that on their own anyway. And when they don’t they pack up to kill people or whatever they happen to run into.

Wow.

I personally kill very dog I have opportunity to kill. The last dog that attacked me did so right in front of the owner. I was jogging down the road and it ran out of the yard and jumped at me to try and bite me. I turned around and kicked the hell out of it till it ran away. The owner didn’t even say sorry. Next time I see the dog around I will kill it.

I get a good work out thinking about how to waste dogs…

What a fucking creep. Hey, CaliforniaLaw, I think we found one of those sociopaths you were talking about.[/quote]

Here for a start: