Does This Sound Like Ketosis?

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
You haven’t mentioned how much fat you are getting in daily. It’s only ketosis if you have enough fat in your diet, otherwise, it’s just undereating. [/quote]

around 65g of fat[/quote]

anything under 165g of fat and i feel like utter shit on keto. HOW do you even get out of bed in the morning let alone do 2 workouts a day at those levels?

edit: in another thread you said youre trying to scale back fats. im confused as to what diet youre actually following now?

[quote]wannabebig25 wrote:

[quote]AccipiterQ wrote:

[quote]jskrabac wrote:
You haven’t mentioned how much fat you are getting in daily. It’s only ketosis if you have enough fat in your diet, otherwise, it’s just undereating. [/quote]

around 65g of fat[/quote]

anything under 165g of fat and i feel like utter shit on keto. HOW do you even get out of bed in the morning let alone do 2 workouts a day at those levels?

edit: in another thread you said youre trying to scale back fats. im confused as to what diet youre actually following now?[/quote]

Shit ton of protein, moderate-low carbs, moderate-low fat. Mild carb-up meal as needed, usually one on Saturday, one on Tuesday. Although the last week I skipped the carb ups.

Ketosis typically entails 60-70% of your calorie intake coming from fat. You aren’t giving your body enough fat OR carbs to spuport one-a-days, let alone two-a-days. No wonder you feel like crap.

What you’re doing is sort of a PSMF (protein-sparing modified fast). I wouldn’t keep at it too long.

Yep. One of these 3 things has to change.

  1. Up the carbs.
  2. Up the fats.
  3. Keep doing a PSMF, but scale the volume back big time. Look at a program like Rapid Fat Loss, and he recommends weight training only 2x/wk due to the extreme caloric deficit!

you’re doing a V-Diet essentially.

I kind of based what I was trying off of a Protein Sparing Modified Fast, I wanted to see how it went with 2 a days. Obviously not well. Carbs on the days that I do 2 a days are going up to 110g net or so.

The V-Diet has a ton of supplements you take though as well, correct? I’m taking fish oil at this point.

Dude, why not just up your fats and see how it goes?

If the anabolic diet works for you, do it, you’ll likely lose more on a program that’s been effective for so many people than whatever you’re doing.

just to set the record straight, the anabolic diet isnt intended to put you in ketosis… in the induction phase, sure but not for the remainder of the time. if you are continually in a ketogenic state then it means you havent adapted.

^agreed. Well, you’ll be back in ketosis by Wed/Thurs after a weekend carbup if done properly, IME.

@ Accipter: Yes, on the V-Diet you take fish oil, HOT-ROX, and some superfood. BUT, there are certainly no 2-a-days. In fact, you only train 3 days a week and do one BW session as a ‘metabolic’ boost. I did the V-Diet a while back, and I could barely walk across the street to the gym, let alone lift heavy. Just goes to show that with PSMF’s, you lose a ton of weight, but there are better ways IMO. Look at the people doing the V-Diet…They’re mostly people NOT interested in looking like BBers. Seriously, you should hire a coach. Or just up your fats.

Another thing: I don’t know how much you know about the ‘science’ behind nutrition. I’m certainly no expert myself. But do some basic research about nutrition. For instance, if you choose to up your fats, you should probably avoid certain types of activities. When on a low carb, high fat diet, your body doesn’t have very full glycogen stores. And for intense exercise, like high rep lifting or HIIT, carbs provide energy. So if you’re low-carb, then I’d completely nix high intensity, HIIT type stuff. When you’re high fat, low carb, the body LOVES slow, steady cardio. True. When I was low carb, fat literally melted off with fasted morning cardio. But it took quite a bit to notice the difference.

What I (me) would do, not saying you HAVE to - keep protein high (obviously), up fats like everyone else is saying. I’d stay low carb. By looking at your pics, I’d say, in my limited experience, that you’d benefit from spending some time low carbing it. Cut back workouts to 4 days a week. Change up your program, whatever, but NO MORE than 4 days a week with weights. When you lift, reduce volume slightly. No insane dropsets (fi you’re doing that kind of stuff). No complexes, no HIIT. Lifting should be done in the afternoon. Upon waking up, immediately hit a treadmill/bike/elliptical or whatever. You can pound some BCAA’s if you want. Ramp up. Start with 45 mins, 6X per week. Add 5 min per week. Have 1 (ONE) carb up meal a week, with low fat. Read some stuff by Skip about Skiploading. That shit is AMAZING! Just don’t go too overboard.

So, for convenience:

Mon: AM: 45 min FMC, PM: Weights
Tues: AM: 45 min FMC, PM: Weights
Wed: AM: 45 min FMC, PM: rest (TOTAL REST)
Thurs: AM: 45 min FMC, PM: Weights
Fri: AM: 45 min FMC, PM: Weights
SAT: AM: 45 min FMC, PM: carb-up meal
SUN: TOTAL, COMPLETE, BEAUTIFUL REST

Now, if you’re like me, you’ll be damn tired all day, and hungry. I usually pounded romaine leafs straight off the head all day long. Also chowed down up to 2 packs of sugar-free gum a day, and indulged heavily in black coffee. And my miracle was 7-11 Double Gulps. Probably not the most healthy thing, but when you’re balls deep in a cut and starving, a double gulp full of Diet Dr. Pepper is a GODSEND!

Lastly, I wouldn’t recommend that anybody start out a cut like this. BUT, you’ve already made good progress. This was how I ended my last cut, and I saw pretty good success. Now, next time I cut I will hire a coach most likely, b/c I think that using carbs during the cut can lead to better results (muscle retention, looking more like a BBer and not just a meathead)…Think about Stu et al, those dudes have a solid number of carbs up until peak week and they look amazing. But since you said you’re only at this cut for another 8 weeks, I’d suggest doing something like this. And it sucks! By week 8 of this you’ll be doing 80 min fasted morning cardio a day, 6X per week. But if you stick with it, you WILL see results, I guarantee it.

While on a low carb approach you should add as much fat to your diet as you can get away with while still losing.

When starting off I’ll set my fat intake pretty high and then drop it to a level where l begin to get leaner. If I begin to stagnate I will drop my fat intake even further or have a refeed day if it’s been a while since I last carbed up.

Telling you to eat X amount of fat over Y amount is just doing a disservice to you.

[quote]hlss09 wrote:
^agreed. Well, you’ll be back in ketosis by Wed/Thurs after a weekend carbup if done properly, IME.
[/quote]
no… then you were not adapted for one reason or another.

if you hit keto on weds/thurs then you’re using ketones and NOT FAT as your primary fuel source

that is called a CKD (cyclical ketogenic diet) and di pasquale has gone over and over again that, that is not what the anabolic diet is meant to do

hitting keto every week means you’re doing something wrong

[quote]mutayshun wrote:
I’ve noticed that this phase usually only seems to last a week or so with most people though… Eventually you get used to it and stop feeling quite so shitty.[/quote]

x2
Maybe it’s me, but after a couple of days of close to zero carbs I felt completely normal.

Agree with the others here that you need more fat. 65g is too low. That’s just 585 calories.
Add another 80 calories from the 20g of cabs and you’re probably at about 1/4 or less of the calories you need. There is almost no way you could be eating that much protein, so I suspect you’re seriously under-eating and that’s why you feel rotten.

Eat fat, dude! It’s good for you. I saw this Dan John article once where he had his athletes taking tablespoons of extra virgin olive oil. Try that if you have to. Eat a bunch of whole eggs each day. Eat whole chickens. Have some steak.

Great posts guys! I think what I’ll do is this:

On the days I do two a days, stick with 110-120g carbs. As everyone has said repeatedly here, the 20g carb thing on a 2 a day is just plain dumb. On my conditioning days I’ll keep the carbs low, but cut back on the protein a bit, and bump up the fats to about 110-115. Shouldn’t be hard, I like evoo & walnuts.

why dont you do a strategic carb planned diet? makes the most sense for your goals. eat 40-60g before your workouts so you have the energy to do your 2 a days. then rest of your meals eat your protein grams alottment with 15g of fat.

still only getting 80-120g of carbs in a day but theyre right before your workout so you wont rely on gluconeogenesis to fuel your workouts.

[quote]wannabebig25 wrote:
why dont you do a strategic carb planned diet? makes the most sense for your goals. eat 40-60g before your workouts so you have the energy to do your 2 a days. then rest of your meals eat your protein grams alottment with 15g of fat.

still only getting 80-120g of carbs in a day but theyre right before your workout so you wont rely on gluconeogenesis to fuel your workouts. [/quote]

That’s what I meant in my previous post, I should’ve been clearer

@ OP sorry for going off on a tangent but so many butcher the AD and wonder why it doesnt work…

nah it’s fine, I understand :slight_smile: