Does the Leangains Fasting Method Work

Nutrition
101

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

stored or used. storage and use is affected by enzymes and hormones, which are affected by not just quantity, but quality of calorie. capiche?
[/quote]

So storage and use don’t qualify as “out”?[/quote]

How would storage qualify as “out”?[/quote]

Would you qualify fuel in the gas tank as being in the engine?

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]

Hm. I thought you were one of the hard core “Only total calories matter” and “A carb is a carb” guys. Guess I misunderstood some of your former posts. Sorry about that.

102

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

stored or used. storage and use is affected by enzymes and hormones, which are affected by not just quantity, but quality of calorie. capiche?
[/quote]

So storage and use don’t qualify as “out”?[/quote]

How would storage qualify as “out”?[/quote]

Would you qualify fuel in the gas tank as being in the engine?

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]

Hm. I thought you were one of the hard core “Only total calories matter” and “A carb is a carb” guys. Guess I misunderstood some of your former posts. Sorry about that.[/quote]

I think he’s so confused that he confuses himself, ha. he must be one of those strawcharlatanmans

103

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

stored or used. storage and use is affected by enzymes and hormones, which are affected by not just quantity, but quality of calorie. capiche?
[/quote]

So storage and use don’t qualify as “out”?[/quote]

How would storage qualify as “out”?[/quote]

Would you qualify fuel in the gas tank as being in the engine?

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]

Hm. I thought you were one of the hard core “Only total calories matter” and “A carb is a carb” guys. Guess I misunderstood some of your former posts. Sorry about that.[/quote]

I think he’s so confused that he confuses himself, ha. he must be one of those strawcharlatanmans
[/quote]

No, I’m perfectly aware of what I’m talking about. You’re the one who believes that matter and energy magically disappear. You still haven’t explained how “enzymes and hormones” somehow alter the fundamental calories in = calories burned + calories stored equation.

104

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

stored or used. storage and use is affected by enzymes and hormones, which are affected by not just quantity, but quality of calorie. capiche?
[/quote]

So storage and use don’t qualify as “out”?[/quote]

How would storage qualify as “out”?[/quote]

Would you qualify fuel in the gas tank as being in the engine?

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]

Hm. I thought you were one of the hard core “Only total calories matter” and “A carb is a carb” guys. Guess I misunderstood some of your former posts. Sorry about that.[/quote]

I think he’s so confused that he confuses himself, ha. he must be one of those strawcharlatanmans
[/quote]

No, I’m perfectly aware of what I’m talking about. You’re the one who believes that matter and energy magically disappear. You still haven’t explained how “enzymes and hormones” somehow alter the fundamental calories in = calories burned + calories stored equation.[/quote]

Enzmes and hormones determine calories burned vs calories stored, yeah? And isn’t that the main concern?

105

im beginning to sense alot of anger and stress coming from this thread can everybody just calm down maybe a group hug at this point would help to lower cortisol and restore everybodys hormone levels to normal .

106

[quote]lia67 wrote:
im beginning to sense alot of anger and stress coming from this thread can everybody just calm down maybe a group hug at this point would help to lower cortisol and restore everybodys hormone levels to normal .[/quote]

You’ve never been to PWI, have you? :stuck_out_tongue:

107

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]lia67 wrote:
im beginning to sense alot of anger and stress coming from this thread can everybody just calm down maybe a group hug at this point would help to lower cortisol and restore everybodys hormone levels to normal .[/quote]

You’ve never been to PWI, have you? :P[/quote]

no , whats PWI ?

108

[quote]lia67 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]lia67 wrote:
im beginning to sense alot of anger and stress coming from this thread can everybody just calm down maybe a group hug at this point would help to lower cortisol and restore everybodys hormone levels to normal .[/quote]

You’ve never been to PWI, have you? :P[/quote]

no , whats PWI ?[/quote]

lol Politics and world Issues. Stop by sometime. Bring a helmet.

109

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]lia67 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]lia67 wrote:
im beginning to sense alot of anger and stress coming from this thread can everybody just calm down maybe a group hug at this point would help to lower cortisol and restore everybodys hormone levels to normal .[/quote]

You’ve never been to PWI, have you? :P[/quote]

no , whats PWI ?[/quote]

lol Politics and world Issues. Stop by sometime. Bring a helmet.[/quote]

put my name on the guest list

110

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

stored or used. storage and use is affected by enzymes and hormones, which are affected by not just quantity, but quality of calorie. capiche?
[/quote]

So storage and use don’t qualify as “out”?[/quote]

How would storage qualify as “out”?[/quote]

Would you qualify fuel in the gas tank as being in the engine?

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]

Hm. I thought you were one of the hard core “Only total calories matter” and “A carb is a carb” guys. Guess I misunderstood some of your former posts. Sorry about that.[/quote]

I think he’s so confused that he confuses himself, ha. he must be one of those strawcharlatanmans
[/quote]

No, I’m perfectly aware of what I’m talking about. You’re the one who believes that matter and energy magically disappear. You still haven’t explained how “enzymes and hormones” somehow alter the fundamental calories in = calories burned + calories stored equation.[/quote]
Holy fuck you oversimplify the human body, the body can basically waste calories at " nothing " like it can produce adrenalin that only makes heat. There are multiple ways the body can rid itself of calories, how else do you think ectomorphs or whatever its called can eat like a hod and still not gain weigth?

111

[quote]ultralars wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

stored or used. storage and use is affected by enzymes and hormones, which are affected by not just quantity, but quality of calorie. capiche?
[/quote]

So storage and use don’t qualify as “out”?[/quote]

How would storage qualify as “out”?[/quote]

Would you qualify fuel in the gas tank as being in the engine?

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]

Hm. I thought you were one of the hard core “Only total calories matter” and “A carb is a carb” guys. Guess I misunderstood some of your former posts. Sorry about that.[/quote]

I think he’s so confused that he confuses himself, ha. he must be one of those strawcharlatanmans
[/quote]

No, I’m perfectly aware of what I’m talking about. You’re the one who believes that matter and energy magically disappear. You still haven’t explained how “enzymes and hormones” somehow alter the fundamental calories in = calories burned + calories stored equation.[/quote]

Holy fuck you oversimplify the human body, the body can basically waste calories at " nothing " like it can produce adrenalin that only makes heat. There are multiple ways the body can rid itself of calories, how else do you think ectomorphs or whatever its called can eat like a hod and still not gain weigth?[/quote]

LOL.

So the human body is able to ignore basic laws of thermodynamics?

You’re an expert right? You read one fad diet book and you know everything about physiology, but you still can’t wrap your head around the fact that leptin doesn’t increase metabolic rate much beyond normal.

I could simplify this less, but you would only be more confused.

112

[quote]ultralars wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

stored or used. storage and use is affected by enzymes and hormones, which are affected by not just quantity, but quality of calorie. capiche?
[/quote]

So storage and use don’t qualify as “out”?[/quote]

How would storage qualify as “out”?[/quote]

Would you qualify fuel in the gas tank as being in the engine?

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]

Hm. I thought you were one of the hard core “Only total calories matter” and “A carb is a carb” guys. Guess I misunderstood some of your former posts. Sorry about that.[/quote]

I think he’s so confused that he confuses himself, ha. he must be one of those strawcharlatanmans
[/quote]

No, I’m perfectly aware of what I’m talking about. You’re the one who believes that matter and energy magically disappear. You still haven’t explained how “enzymes and hormones” somehow alter the fundamental calories in = calories burned + calories stored equation.[/quote]
Holy fuck you oversimplify the human body, the body can basically waste calories at " nothing " like it can produce adrenalin that only makes heat. There are multiple ways the body can rid itself of calories, how else do you think ectomorphs or whatever its called can eat like a hod and still not gain weigth?[/quote]

Ectomorph=Higher resting metabolic rate

Higher resting metabolic rate=more calories burned

more calories burned=less calories stored

Lawyered.

113

i argued in another thread that there is a certain point where switching carbs for fat doesn’t result in significant differences in fat storage.

This study pretty much proves my point…

http://www.ajcn.org/content/72/2/369.long

CONCLUSION: There was no significant difference in fat balance during controlled overfeeding with fat, fructose, glucose, or sucrose.

burden of proof is on you now…to find something that contradicts this…

114

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]ultralars wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

stored or used. storage and use is affected by enzymes and hormones, which are affected by not just quantity, but quality of calorie. capiche?
[/quote]

So storage and use don’t qualify as “out”?[/quote]

How would storage qualify as “out”?[/quote]

Would you qualify fuel in the gas tank as being in the engine?

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]

Hm. I thought you were one of the hard core “Only total calories matter” and “A carb is a carb” guys. Guess I misunderstood some of your former posts. Sorry about that.[/quote]

I think he’s so confused that he confuses himself, ha. he must be one of those strawcharlatanmans
[/quote]

No, I’m perfectly aware of what I’m talking about. You’re the one who believes that matter and energy magically disappear. You still haven’t explained how “enzymes and hormones” somehow alter the fundamental calories in = calories burned + calories stored equation.[/quote]

Holy fuck you oversimplify the human body, the body can basically waste calories at " nothing " like it can produce adrenalin that only makes heat. There are multiple ways the body can rid itself of calories, how else do you think ectomorphs or whatever its called can eat like a hod and still not gain weigth?[/quote]

LOL.

So the human body is able to ignore basic laws of thermodynamics?

You’re an expert right? You read one fad diet book and you know everything about physiology, but you still can’t wrap your head around the fact that leptin doesn’t increase metabolic rate much beyond normal.

I could simplify this less, but you would only be more confused.[/quote]

Why, cause you read one study denying so without mentioning anything about leptin resistance? i am guessing you haven’t heard about the other 16 000 studies on leptin?

lol physiology? you mean biology?

alrigth dickweed, what makes the leptin diet a fad diet book??

The hypothalamus gland of the brain takes input from leptin and then sets the energy spending policy for long-range plans. Leptin level determine if enough food is present for a permisive energy plan, if so, thyroid hormone implements instructions for a higher level idling speed.

This is set at a weekly basis, since thyroid hormones last 6.5 days.

115

sadly only 13961 of those studies are posted in the pubmed journal :frowning:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed

116

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

It’s not so much an argument of calories in vs. calories out but an argument of macronutrient composition. We can’t deny the fact that 100kcal of protein has a much different physiological effect than 100kcal of sugar.

Calories are indeed important—but they are not the whole picture. And for the majority of the public losing fat/gaining muscle doesn’t need to be obsessive compulsive. Eat the right macronutrient ratios at the right times of the day and you’ll influence the proper hormones at the proper times.

The people on the side of “Calories are the be-all and the end-all of nutrition” are the same people who are lean everywhere except for their remaining pot-belly and love handles the same way people on the “Macro ratio is all that matters” typically never put on appreciable size and never get to low single digit body fat.

117

[quote]D Public wrote:
i argued in another thread that there is a certain point where switching carbs for fat doesn’t result in significant differences in fat storage.

This study pretty much proves my point…

http://www.ajcn.org/content/72/2/369.long

CONCLUSION: There was no significant difference in fat balance during controlled overfeeding with fat, fructose, glucose, or sucrose.

burden of proof is on you now…to find something that contradicts this…
[/quote]

That study doesn’t prove your point at all. The authors state in the discussion that:

“Carbohydrate oxidation increased greatly in response to carbohydrate overfeeding (from 15.61 to 21.94, 21.64, and 21.97 MJ for fructose, glucose, and sucrose, respectively; Table 4). Fat oxidation was suppressed (from 13.72 to 9.51, 9.46, and 8.72 MJ, respectively; Table 5) even though total EI was in excess. This is a clear illustration of the now universal finding that carbohydrate always takes precedence over fat in modulating fuel selection.”

Now, I don’t know how you’d go about determining what macronutrient your body sees as “caloric excess” but it’s pretty clear that not limiting carbs makes it easier to store fat, especially if you don’t do anything to deplete glycogen.

.

118

of course macros are important…the issue is some people are claiming carbs = bad and insulin = bad…and that is not true…

Things are not black and white…some people can cut on 400g of carbs…and some have to cut on close to zero carbs…

when I cut calories, I cut carbs by default…my fat and protein stays the same as my bulking amounts…

I just systematically cut out carbs…

that is how almost every pro bodybuilder does it…whether they carb cycle or not…

119

D Pub: I like your statements but im confused by your last one.

"carbs = bad Insulin = bad…NOT true(???)

I just systemactially cut out carbs…that is how almost every pro bodybuilder does it…whether they carb cycle or not."

Why are you cutting carbs if its a bad things and the insulin response is a bad thing.
To note as well there have been more recent articles from authors on this site specifically talking about insulin management.

Also to ultra: you started this :slight_smile: and youre trying to make yourself heard and have trying to make some good points but the name calling isnt helping anyone or making you look good. Lets keep it civil and slightly romantic.

120

[quote]t.bruce wrote:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]

So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?[/quote]

It’s not so much an argument of calories in vs. calories out but an argument of macronutrient composition. We can’t deny the fact that 100kcal of protein has a much different physiological effect than 100kcal of sugar.

Calories are indeed important—but they are not the whole picture. And for the majority of the public losing fat/gaining muscle doesn’t need to be obsessive compulsive. Eat the right macronutrient ratios at the right times of the day and you’ll influence the proper hormones at the proper times.

The people on the side of “Calories are the be-all and the end-all of nutrition” are the same people who are lean everywhere except for their remaining pot-belly and love handles the same way people on the “Macro ratio is all that matters” typically never put on appreciable size and never get to low single digit body fat.
[/quote]

In case you missed it:

[quote]Stronghold wrote:

Anyone trying to argue that macronutrient composition is irrelevant (mostly wrt protein vs. carbs/fat and starch/fiber vs. sugar) is dumb. Anyone trying to construe the argument against low carb/paleo magic into that is knocking down strawmen.[/quote]