I’m not convinced… I believe that it will work for strength increases which may possibly lead to hypertrophy. However as a stand alone technique for hypertrophy as Waterbury purports it; no way.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
Only HIT works
You are correct, HIT works; for about 5 minutes. Then you have to do something else.
The basic problem is that HIT is too hard on your CNS. So your muscles recover very quickly and are ready to increase in load, but your CNS does not recover that quickly and will hold back your muscles by not activating them or reaching failure sooner. So you basically have not way to progress in load using HIT once you CNS is fatigued. And if you can’t progress in load you can’t build.
The only way to use HIT is by cycling it or it is worthless.
Thats why HIT has you working out once every 4-7 days…so that your CNS can recover. The idea is to fatigue both your muscles and your CNS simultaneously, and then rest for an unreal amount of time before the next workout.
[/quote]
Yes, that is what they say. However, while your CNS may need 4-7 days recovery your muscles may not. So your muscles will not receive the frequency of load required to make progress. Remember, HIT only uses a few sets to failure and that is not enough to require 4-7 days recovery for the muscles. Muscles always recover more quickly than the CNS.
So IMO, the only way to use HIT would be to use it for a few weeks and then drop back to a multi-set regimen, not going to failure, which allows the CNS to recover while challenging the muscles.
[quote]Joaquin wrote:
I’m not convinced… I believe that it will work for strength increases which may possibly lead to hypertrophy. However as a stand alone technique for hypertrophy as Waterbury purports it; no way. [/quote]
If that is all you do it may not deliver the hypertrophy you are wanting. IMO, hypertrophy follows strength. So doing heavy low rep sets followed by high rep sets (called back-off sets by Ian King) is the best way to go.
You activate the type II muscle fibers with the heavy weights and then using lighter weight with higher reps will continue to use more of the type II fibers than if you just did high rep sets. Charles Poliquin uses a similar principle in his 1 to 6 principle. He does a heavy single then does a 6-rep max, then repeats.
To me it works perfect. First week (while being the lightest) feels the heavyest… Made good gains during the 10x3 method.
Everything works…for a while. For someone who has been using mainly more hypertrophy specific training, then switching to a low rep, high set, high weight type program will show benefits in terms of increased strength, which will in turn result in more hypertrophy down the road. The problem is when an author begins touting one form of training as being the ONLY or BEST way to make gains in both strength and size ALL of the time.
[quote]Lorisco wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
detazathoth wrote:
Only HIT works
You are correct, HIT works; for about 5 minutes. Then you have to do something else.
The basic problem is that HIT is too hard on your CNS. So your muscles recover very quickly and are ready to increase in load, but your CNS does not recover that quickly and will hold back your muscles by not activating them or reaching failure sooner. So you basically have not way to progress in load using HIT once you CNS is fatigued. And if you can’t progress in load you can’t build.
The only way to use HIT is by cycling it or it is worthless.
Thats why HIT has you working out once every 4-7 days…so that your CNS can recover. The idea is to fatigue both your muscles and your CNS simultaneously, and then rest for an unreal amount of time before the next workout.
Yes, that is what they say. However, while your CNS may need 4-7 days recovery your muscles may not. So your muscles will not receive the frequency of load required to make progress. Remember, HIT only uses a few sets to failure and that is not enough to require 4-7 days recovery for the muscles. Muscles always recover more quickly than the CNS.
So IMO, the only way to use HIT would be to use it for a few weeks and then drop back to a multi-set regimen, not going to failure, which allows the CNS to recover while challenging the muscles.
[/quote]
HIT does work and has has worked for many. Splits like Doggcrapp, Push/pull, and half/half heavy/light splits are pretty good in this area.
little muscles don’t lift big weights. You’ll get stronger and you’ll get bigger. 10x3 put 60 pounds on my bench in 8 weeks. I wasn’t too concerned with what I weighed then but you better believe I got bigger.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
Kal-El wrote:
Joaquin wrote:
I have used this method before and got very strong and eventually stagnated. I should have done some periodization. Regardless, if 10x3 was the way to go why don’t any top bodybuilders (juiced and naturals)use this method? I like heavy weight, low reps and high sets… but the top guys don’t use it.
You are not a top guy! Those guys used various programs before settling in on a juice split that they use now. Don’t judge a program simply because a pro doesnt use it.
Top naturals dont train this way either. I would be willing to be that there are a lot of top guys who have never trained this way, natural or not. Are you implying that one has to be on in order to make good gains with a bodypart split?
paging Mad Titan, Exile Swede, Caveman, and Prof X…[/quote]
Top guys, top guys, top guys…oh and don’t forget HIT. Seems that every discussion has to involve someone pulling out a “the pros just use 50000 sets of 10-12” or something similar. If everyone knows what ever pro does or has ever done to get to where they I and is convinced - by extension - it’s the most effective method for them…why are we bothering to read articles and examine new training programs on here? Just go do what you “know” is the only or most effective way to train = like the pros do. So…stop reading this post and become a pro…you have a LOT of high rep sets to do!
HIT…yes it’s ONE effective way to train and, sorry to burst your virgin HIT bubble but, that’s all it is! I’ve done DC training MANY times and even exclusively for over a year. Sure, it works fine but it’s also nothing special. A couple years ago after doing several months of DC and GVT (not at the same time) and started stagnating I did a couple months of 5x5 and guess what…I had better results than my last DC cycle. Yup plain old 5x5 worked just as well as HIT if not better. I have a friend so enamored with everything DC/Dante he won’t even consider anything else and hangs on everything he says. It borders on cult worship.
As for Prof X…some of you guys on here seem to have some kind of bromance with him. I’m sure he’s a big strong dude and we’ve all been infinitely aware of the fact that he’s a doctor. In one of his forum discussions however he pointed out that he’s only done one training template for his entire lifting history. Not only had he not tried ANY of the programs on here, he doesn’t even know what 5x5 is and doesn’t care to know. I say good for him he’s been very successful. What I can’t compute, however, is what he’s doing on this website and engaging in discussions at all. No experience in any of these programs and no real interest in learning/experiencing/sharing new ideas. If I wanted advice on how to do things exactly the Prof X way I’d ask him, otherwise I’ll chat with someone both experienced and open-minded to new ideas.
Does 10x3 work? I dunno you might lose 10 pounds of muscle mass doing it for a couple months…never know! Better stick to 3x10, 5x20, 4x8 whatever you think is the only effective hypertrophy method. Play it safe if you’re that worried about it and just do 3x10 forever, question answered. 
fart
[quote]JMAX wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
Kal-El wrote:
Joaquin wrote:
I have used this method before and got very strong and eventually stagnated. I should have done some periodization. Regardless, if 10x3 was the way to go why don’t any top bodybuilders (juiced and naturals)use this method? I like heavy weight, low reps and high sets… but the top guys don’t use it.
You are not a top guy! Those guys used various programs before settling in on a juice split that they use now. Don’t judge a program simply because a pro doesnt use it.
Top naturals dont train this way either. I would be willing to be that there are a lot of top guys who have never trained this way, natural or not. Are you implying that one has to be on in order to make good gains with a bodypart split?
paging Mad Titan, Exile Swede, Caveman, and Prof X…
Top guys, top guys, top guys…oh and don’t forget HIT. Seems that every discussion has to involve someone pulling out a “the pros just use 50000 sets of 10-12” or something similar. If everyone knows what ever pro does or has ever done to get to where they I and is convinced - by extension - it’s the most effective method for them…why are we bothering to read articles and examine new training programs on here? Just go do what you “know” is the only or most effective way to train = like the pros do. So…stop reading this post and become a pro…you have a LOT of high rep sets to do!
HIT…yes it’s ONE effective way to train and, sorry to burst your virgin HIT bubble but, that’s all it is! I’ve done DC training MANY times and even exclusively for over a year. Sure, it works fine but it’s also nothing special. A couple years ago after doing several months of DC and GVT (not at the same time) and started stagnating I did a couple months of 5x5 and guess what…I had better results than my last DC cycle. Yup plain old 5x5 worked just as well as HIT if not better. I have a friend so enamored with everything DC/Dante he won’t even consider anything else and hangs on everything he says. It borders on cult worship.
As for Prof X…some of you guys on here seem to have some kind of bromance with him. I’m sure he’s a big strong dude and we’ve all been infinitely aware of the fact that he’s a doctor. In one of his forum discussions however he pointed out that he’s only done one training template for his entire lifting history. Not only had he not tried ANY of the programs on here, he doesn’t even know what 5x5 is and doesn’t care to know. I say good for him he’s been very successful. What I can’t compute, however, is what he’s doing on this website and engaging in discussions at all. No experience in any of these programs and no real interest in learning/experiencing/sharing new ideas. If I wanted advice on how to do things exactly the Prof X way I’d ask him, otherwise I’ll chat with someone both experienced and open-minded to new ideas.
Does 10x3 work? I dunno you might lose 10 pounds of muscle mass doing it for a couple months…never know! Better stick to 3x10, 5x20, 4x8 whatever you think is the only effective hypertrophy method. Play it safe if you’re that worried about it and just do 3x10 forever, question answered.
[/quote]
Thread Necromancer!
burp
[quote]elusive wrote:
Thread Necromancer![/quote]
Lol…maybe I should pay attention once in a while too huh? Forgive me for my ignorance and lack of observation. This thread was freakin OLD!
[quote]JMAX wrote:
elusive wrote:
Thread Necromancer!
Lol…maybe I should pay attention once in a while too huh? Forgive me for my ignorance and lack of observation. This thread was freakin OLD![/quote]
I don’t think anyone cares whether or not old threads are bumped… so long as they get bumped with good (hopefully new) information, as opposed to some generic comment found thirty times in the thread already (e.g., "I lie 10x3 but whatevs lolcopter).
That being said, I’m sure paragraph 3 of your post will have me coming back with popcorn later today.
Nope, wont work. It goes against history.
[quote]anonym wrote:
That being said, I’m sure paragraph 3 of your post will have me coming back with popcorn later today.[/quote]
Effin’ brilliant! lol
Save me a seat!
Sets and reps don’t mean sh!t.
Are we still talking about this?
Really?
The only time I use 10x3 is for my Speed Bench Days…that’s about it.
SQUATS AND MILK!
so the top guys don’t do heavy powerlifting type stuff?
here’s ronnie coleman (the top guy) doing a double at 800 lbs for squats
[quote]JMAX wrote:
As for Prof X…some of you guys on here seem to have some kind of bromance with him. I’m sure he’s a big strong dude and we’ve all been infinitely aware of the fact that he’s a doctor. In one of his forum discussions however he pointed out that he’s only done one training template for his entire lifting history. Not only had he not tried ANY of the programs on here, he doesn’t even know what 5x5 is and doesn’t care to know. I say good for him he’s been very successful. What I can’t compute, however, is what he’s doing on this website and engaging in discussions at all. No experience in any of these programs and no real interest in learning/experiencing/sharing new ideas. If I wanted advice on how to do things exactly the Prof X way I’d ask him, otherwise I’ll chat with someone both experienced and open-minded to new ideas.
[/quote]
First, why is my name coming up in every single thread whether I respond in them or not?
Second, why the hell are you digging up two year old threads that I did NOT respond to while throwing my name into it as if I had?
Further, what the fuck does any of what you wrote have to do with me writing on this forum? I have NOT done the exact same template since I started so why are you lying about it as if I had?
Your specific fucking program isn’t even that damned important in the long run as long as the basics are covered. Only a fool or a complete beginner is unaware of this.
Along with that, I am the one of the few people on this forum, and that includes the AUTHORS, who has daily experience with actually medically treating patients and not just “working with training clients”. Are you saying being educated in biology to that degree makes me incapable of contributing?
One more thing, why do you think you know me when it is clear you don’t?