[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
forlife wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
I’m wondering how many have you actually studied holy writ, orthodox writ, or anything of that nature.
First, God is our Father. Not our all obeying servant. Second, Prayer is not ask God for things time, it’s conversation time. Would you go up to someone you know and just always ask them for stuff? No, now the relationship with God, there is a time to ask him for things you need, or want. Yet, you still need to pray for God, for his Kingdom to rule, for his forgiveness, for lively hood, for him to lead you, and other stuff like prayer, etc.
You would be surprised at how extensively some of the people posting here have studied “holy writ”, as former believers or otherwise.
We’re not talking about praying to your god for intangible results, like forgiveness of sins. We’re specifically addressing prayers that ask for material blessings, i.e., that have a result in the real world.
There is plenty of examples. Yet, once again I say, no is an answer. And the OP is lucky he can get a job at all. He should stop and be grateful. As well stop being greedy. He needs to be more humble. It has nothing to do with Him being sinful necessarily, but God is trying to have a closer relationship with the OP. He needs to realise this, and as well accept that relationship.[/quote]
How am I being greedy for wanting a job where I can support myself? If i sold dope to support myself because i couldnt find a job to do it, then everyone would want to get on their high horse and scream that thats no excuse. Well shit, why dont you support me or give me a job.
[quote]forlife wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Who created the laws.
You missed the point of my post, which was that the laws themselves define the nature of the universe, and are far simpler and more parsimonious than the idea of a supernatural, magical man floating in the sky. Gravity doesn’t require a supernatural being to define it, since it is by definition a natural law.[/quote]
I’ll say you have more belief than I do, because what ya’ll say is so far left. I’d put myself in an institute.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
forlife wrote:
Does it not make you a little suspicious that your belief system is, by definition, unconfirmable? You’ve set up the perfect crime for yourself.
Think about it.
You can claim whatever you want about your god, and how your life is blessed in material ways due to your faith and prayers.
However, the moment anyone actually attempts to assess the truthfulness of those claims, you respond that your god refuses to be measured in such a way.
Thus, it is impossible to actually confirm any of your claims.
Given that your claims literally cannot be substantiated, what differentiates them from any fairy tale that someone might concoct?
I have one question, how is our faith uncomfirmable? Which is not a word by the way, but I get your gist. You can very well see if you look at the earth that there has to be some creator.
No, the earth is amazing however everything on it can be explained without the need of recourse to a supreme being. It is lazy to use a supreme being to fill in the gaps in your personal understanding or education.
Statistically speaking it would be impossible for the earth and Universe to be as it is by chance. There has to be something that created it. Second, a cause and effect for you little “God doesn’t existites”, does cause and effect not explain that something one and of itself and separate have to be, to cause a line of effects and causes. Meaning that there has to be an Eternal Causer for all the effects in the world.
You clearly have no understanding of statistics. If there are infinite universes as some posit then our existence on this planet has a probability of 1.
You are also looking at things the wrong way round. Space is big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the drug store, but that’s just peanuts to space. Because it is so big and varied there are parts of it that are condusive to life of the type found on Earth. Now add in a very, very long time and surprise surprise in one of the tiny bits of the universe that is condusive to life we find life. The statistical probability of this is actually pretty high when you look at the universe and time as a whole.
The problem is that our minds have problems coping with quite how big the universe is and quite how much time we are talking about. This is no surprise because we are conditioned to think in terms of a couple of lifetimes at most and spaces not much larger than a small village.
I’m not talking about the probability that we are here on earth, I am not a philosopher who questions if this is reality. I am saying that if randomly the situation we are in was created by random causes, it would be impossible to be here.
OK, try reading what I wrote again, take your time, ask questions, look up words that are unfamiliar.
I am not talking about the philosophical question of whether we are really here or not. I am saying that given that our being here is actually a statistical inevitability given a large enough universe and enough time.
Alright, let me see if I can explain. Say there is a thousand categories that have to be within a narrow margin for life to be possible. Let’s say a few are distance from heat source, tilt of satellite, speed of revolution, speed of orbit, atmosphere, environment, etc. Now there are thousands and millions of possibilities of these thousands conditions. You’re saying that all these things happened by chance.
Let me ask a question, what is the most complex of the following three:
A. Gun
B. Truck
C. Worm
No you dumb arse, I am saying that the Universe is vast which means that you have a huge range of variations of conditions not surprisingly in the part that just so happens to have conditions condusive to life like ours we find life like ours. That is quite clearly not something that happened by chance. It happened because of the local conditions. This is not proof of God. If anything it is proof that there is no God. Why would God have been so wasteful as to have used less of a fraction of a percent of the universe and less than a fraction of a percent of time to put his chosen people in?[/quote]
I’ll have to say your probably one of the biggest narcissist, I have met. You think because you do not understand it, there is no reason. Interesting, you probably still throw tantrums when your mom says no.
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Pat,
I wouldn’t waste too much time with those two, they each have a lifestyle agenda and God deosn’t exactly fit in. I wonder if they’d believe if the Bible encouraged homosexuality, and a host of other “fun” things that they like?
I bet we’d not be having this debate huh? Some people are easy to figure out, they want what they want and anything that tells them the can’t just can’t be real.
Anyone who has studied Christianity knows that the Bible is one of the most well researched ancient documents of all time. More accurate than all the works of Socrates, Plato and many other well respected ancient writers. One only has to use google, it’s not a hidden secret.
The Bible is true and It’s the word of God.
I’ve had many prayers answered in my life and I know many others who have as well. Some very amazing things have happened just from prayer alone. We don’t need a scientist to stand by measuring the perceived accuracy to know that prayers are indeed answered.
However, it is all about faith and you cannot argue science to confirm faith.
One last thing, many if not most of the “atheists” on this site are between the ages of about 21 and 30’s. When they grow up and stop playing “know it all” they just might come around. For those who don’t maybe a life changing event or two will bring them around, maybe not.
As my grandfather used to say " I never saw an atheist in a foxhole."
Take care Pat and God Bless!
So your grandfather was unoriginal as well?
You are more deluded than I thought if you really believe that the Bible is a historically accurate document. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Just a short list of inacuracies.
The Jews were from Judea area originally, they didn’t come in from Egypt.
The Jews were never enslaved.
Herod never masacred any babies.
Solomon and David never existed as powerful kings.
Daniel 5:1-2 says Belshazzar was king of the Chaldean Empire (Babylon), and son and successor of Nebuchadnezzar. In reality, Nebuchadnezzar’s son and successor was Amel-Marduk. He was assassinated by his Brother-in-law Nergal-Ashur-Usur, who took the throne. His reign was followed by his son Labashi-Marduk, who was opposed by a faction that overthrew him and placed Nabu-naido on the throne. Belshazzar (who’s name was actually Bel-shar-utsur) was the son of Nabu-naido. He was NEVER king, but crown prince, and was no relation at all to Nebuchadnezzar.
Hosea 5:13 tells us the Assyrian King at that time was named Jareb. There was never an Assyrian king by that name, and the name of the king who did rule at that time was Tiglath-Pileser the third.
Esther 1:9 tells us Vashti was queen of Persia at the time the story occures, but the queen at this time was actually Amestris, and there never was a queen of Persia named Vashti. Vashti was the name of an Elamite goddess. Most probably that is the origin of the name in this story.
If Jesus even existed, he certainly wasn’t born in Nazareth as it didn’t exist at the time.
You base your life around a badly translated, badly cobbled together, contradictive set of books that were written 1,500 years ago to try to bring together various fables about totally unrelated people in order to control the masses in an area several thousand miles away from where you live and I am the kook?
I have a very happy life. I am happily married, I have a beautiful daughter, I have a succesful career and a group of close and supportive friends. I also have no need to ask someone else how to live my life. I don’t need a priest or a vicar to interpret a book for me and tell me what is right and wrong. I am also a tad older than 25.
Good for you, seems like you should be happy then, but not unlike forlife you seem to spew hate toward Christians. That’s not being happy is it? That’s internal turmoil. Now tell me why is it there?
More pity than hate. I have no inner turmoil about religion.[/quote]
When Christians post about God they do so because they love the Lord and enjoy being Christians. When you post what’s your motivation? In reading your posts it’s obviously not love. You are mad about God being worshiped, you’re mad about religion. You’re somehow upset, hurt, ticked off call it what you will, but you’re not at peace.
Pretty sure? Hmmm.
As do gyms, health food stores, WalMart, Toys R Us, McDonalds The Boy Scouts Of America and just about every other business and organization in existence. Tell me, who poisoned you? You are using tired old talking points. There are weak and gullible people every where, they need to eat, buy things join organizations and of course find God.
Every facet? Such as?
Hate mongers such as Hitler? Stalin? Saddam and most of the other monsters who have killed thousands and in fact millions of people? Oh wait, not one of them were Christians.
You have to stop toeing the atheist line on this stuff and think for yourself. Your “facts” are just opinions.
[quote]Buff HardBack wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
pat wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Buff HardBack wrote:
ZEB wrote:
forlife wrote:
Nice try, but I have quite a few gay friends that believe in god. Call me crazy, but I choose not to believe in things for which there is no evidence.
Or in things that interfere with your lifestyle.
Hmmm…nope. Doesnt interfere with my lifestyle. Guess that only applies to certain people huh. Whats my reason for not being among the faithful?
I already addressed your situation, you’ll have to pay better attention.
Actually no you didnt. Here is a question. Why is it that so many people who were born and raised christians, catholics, or whatever, end up turning into aeithiests or agnostics? Simple question.
You should ask them…How the hell are we supposed to know? I guess the same reason people feel like it is still a good idea to go streaking at a baseball game.
Actually I have thanks. Ya want to take a stab at what they say? Its usually pretty consistant.
You dumb little bastard…you know all about the mysteries of the universe yet you can’t even spell CONSISTENT.
Really get the fuck off the Internet…go read a book or something.
Good one buddy. Tough guy talk on the internet. We havent seen that before. You must feel so brawny and manly now. BTW thanks for taking the usual route you bible thumpers take and turn agressive, not bothering to answer the simple question I posted and call me a dumb little bastard because I used an a instead of an e. The testosterone must be seeping from your body at this point. Now that you have reinforced a typical stereotype to everyone reading ill ask again if ya feel like answering the question posted or are you too busy looking through my others posts to find any other spelling mistakes, which in your world is obviously a HUGE part of feeling superior to someone.
Says roll on roll off. The reason they probably become atheist is for the fact that some liberal mainline church has spewed a modern fad to the congregation, and the congregation takes it as truth and then becomes inevitably atheist. Which is I put no blame on the members of congregation that have this done to them, except that they should take a little responsibility and try to keep their leaders accountable to orthodox.
Fair enough, but what about the people who simply look at the bible, what it teaches and say to themselves ‘this makes no sense.’ Thats what happened to me. I was brought up to believe all that the bible said, but then when I actually sat back and compared things in the bible to everyday life it suddenly made no sense. Seriously, not to try and tear it down or make light of your beliefs but I suddenly could not see any difference between the bible and fairy tales. They both seemed to be nothing but outlandish stories in a book with no basis in fact. [/quote]
Do you have any specific part of the Bible you can reference regarding your concerns?
I wouldn’t waste too much time with those two, they each have a lifestyle agenda and God deosn’t exactly fit in. I wonder if they’d believe if the Bible encouraged homosexuality, and a host of other “fun” things that they like?
I bet we’d not be having this debate huh? Some people are easy to figure out, they want what they want and anything that tells them the can’t just can’t be real.
Anyone who has studied Christianity knows that the Bible is one of the most well researched ancient documents of all time. More accurate than all the works of Socrates, Plato and many other well respected ancient writers. One only has to use google, it’s not a hidden secret.
The Bible is true and It’s the word of God.
I’ve had many prayers answered in my life and I know many others who have as well. Some very amazing things have happened just from prayer alone. We don’t need a scientist to stand by measuring the perceived accuracy to know that prayers are indeed answered.
However, it is all about faith and you cannot argue science to confirm faith.
One last thing, many if not most of the “atheists” on this site are between the ages of about 21 and 30’s. When they grow up and stop playing “know it all” they just might come around. For those who don’t maybe a life changing event or two will bring them around, maybe not.
As my grandfather used to say " I never saw an atheist in a foxhole."
Take care Pat and God Bless!
So your grandfather was unoriginal as well?
You are more deluded than I thought if you really believe that the Bible is a historically accurate document. This couldn’t be further from the truth. Just a short list of inacuracies.
The Jews were from Judea area originally, they didn’t come in from Egypt.
The Jews were never enslaved.
Herod never masacred any babies.
Solomon and David never existed as powerful kings.
Daniel 5:1-2 says Belshazzar was king of the Chaldean Empire (Babylon), and son and successor of Nebuchadnezzar. In reality, Nebuchadnezzar’s son and successor was Amel-Marduk. He was assassinated by his Brother-in-law Nergal-Ashur-Usur, who took the throne. His reign was followed by his son Labashi-Marduk, who was opposed by a faction that overthrew him and placed Nabu-naido on the throne. Belshazzar (who’s name was actually Bel-shar-utsur) was the son of Nabu-naido. He was NEVER king, but crown prince, and was no relation at all to Nebuchadnezzar.
Hosea 5:13 tells us the Assyrian King at that time was named Jareb. There was never an Assyrian king by that name, and the name of the king who did rule at that time was Tiglath-Pileser the third.
Esther 1:9 tells us Vashti was queen of Persia at the time the story occures, but the queen at this time was actually Amestris, and there never was a queen of Persia named Vashti. Vashti was the name of an Elamite goddess. Most probably that is the origin of the name in this story.
If Jesus even existed, he certainly wasn’t born in Nazareth as it didn’t exist at the time.
[/quote]
Can I ask where you got these facts from, I would like to research them myself?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
forlife wrote:
Does it not make you a little suspicious that your belief system is, by definition, unconfirmable? You’ve set up the perfect crime for yourself.
Think about it.
You can claim whatever you want about your god, and how your life is blessed in material ways due to your faith and prayers.
However, the moment anyone actually attempts to assess the truthfulness of those claims, you respond that your god refuses to be measured in such a way.
Thus, it is impossible to actually confirm any of your claims.
Given that your claims literally cannot be substantiated, what differentiates them from any fairy tale that someone might concoct?
I have one question, how is our faith uncomfirmable? Which is not a word by the way, but I get your gist. You can very well see if you look at the earth that there has to be some creator.
No, the earth is amazing however everything on it can be explained without the need of recourse to a supreme being. It is lazy to use a supreme being to fill in the gaps in your personal understanding or education.
Statistically speaking it would be impossible for the earth and Universe to be as it is by chance. There has to be something that created it. Second, a cause and effect for you little “God doesn’t existites”, does cause and effect not explain that something one and of itself and separate have to be, to cause a line of effects and causes. Meaning that there has to be an Eternal Causer for all the effects in the world.
You clearly have no understanding of statistics. If there are infinite universes as some posit then our existence on this planet has a probability of 1.
You are also looking at things the wrong way round. Space is big. You just won’t believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it’s a long way down the road to the drug store, but that’s just peanuts to space. Because it is so big and varied there are parts of it that are condusive to life of the type found on Earth. Now add in a very, very long time and surprise surprise in one of the tiny bits of the universe that is condusive to life we find life. The statistical probability of this is actually pretty high when you look at the universe and time as a whole.
The problem is that our minds have problems coping with quite how big the universe is and quite how much time we are talking about. This is no surprise because we are conditioned to think in terms of a couple of lifetimes at most and spaces not much larger than a small village.
I’m not talking about the probability that we are here on earth, I am not a philosopher who questions if this is reality. I am saying that if randomly the situation we are in was created by random causes, it would be impossible to be here.
OK, try reading what I wrote again, take your time, ask questions, look up words that are unfamiliar.
I am not talking about the philosophical question of whether we are really here or not. I am saying that given that our being here is actually a statistical inevitability given a large enough universe and enough time.
Alright, let me see if I can explain. Say there is a thousand categories that have to be within a narrow margin for life to be possible. Let’s say a few are distance from heat source, tilt of satellite, speed of revolution, speed of orbit, atmosphere, environment, etc. Now there are thousands and millions of possibilities of these thousands conditions. You’re saying that all these things happened by chance.
Let me ask a question, what is the most complex of the following three:
A. Gun
B. Truck
C. Worm
No you dumb arse, I am saying that the Universe is vast which means that you have a huge range of variations of conditions not surprisingly in the part that just so happens to have conditions condusive to life like ours we find life like ours. That is quite clearly not something that happened by chance. It happened because of the local conditions. This is not proof of God. If anything it is proof that there is no God. Why would God have been so wasteful as to have used less of a fraction of a percent of the universe and less than a fraction of a percent of time to put his chosen people in?
I’ll have to say your probably one of the biggest narcissist, I have met. You think because you do not understand it, there is no reason. Interesting, you probably still throw tantrums when your mom says no.[/quote]
What? Seriously try writing that again in a way that actually makes sense.
More pity than hate. I have no inner turmoil about religion.
When Christians post about God they do so because they love the Lord and enjoy being Christians. When you post what’s your motivation? In reading your posts it’s obviously not love. You are mad about God being worshiped, you’re mad about religion. You’re somehow upset, hurt, ticked off call it what you will, but you’re not at peace.
I am pretty sure there is no God.
Pretty sure? Hmmm.
[/quote]
Yes, I accept that there is a tiny possability that there is a god. It would have to be a pretty capricious god and there is no way it is the god described in any bible but yes there is a possibility however as the possibility is so tiny and as there is no way of knowing what that god would want then logically you might as well live life as if there were no god.
And I take issue with them as well however none of them are quite as effective at preying on the weak and defensless as Religion. Companies are nolonger allowed to advertise directly to Children in the UK. Churches are. That, to my mind is wrong.
Literally every facet. Programs on television are edited so as not to offend religion. Wars are waged over religion. People are elected to office due to their religion.
Hitler - Religious
Stalin - Raised religious, formed his own cult religion
Saddam - Religious
Your point - Absent
Says the person who bases their life around what an invisible man wants them to think
[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
pat wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
Truth is preferable to falsehood.
People who believe falsehoods, and, based on their false beliefs, do things that are harmful to others, should be persuaded otherwise if possible.
It’s not “hatred towards Christians”, it’s abhorrence for the awful things done in the name of religion and those who deliberately spread it, especially to children who don’t know better.
Atheists still hold the record for “awful things” done to people because of their particular belief system. If you are looking for a blameless group, you will not find one, and further athiests have been the worst of them by a long shot, so that’s a bad group to join.
Nope. I’m assuming you’re making a reference to the USSR, et cetera? They did what they did because of a quasi-religious belief in the need for revolution, and so forth, not out of atheism. Atheism is not a belief but the absence of one - it is compatible with any number of political systems, whether good or bad.
BULLSHIT…Other than the fact that my family actually lived the religious persecution at the hands of the Soviets, the government practiced state atheism whose job was to rid all religions in favor of atheism.
This was not “revolution fever” this was the murdering of MILLIONS of religious people because they were religious, and rejected atheism. Don’t tell me this is some patriotic revolution run amok. This shit is well documented. China, Albania, USSR, Cambodia, etc. All practiced and spread, state sponsored atheism. Their actions were driven by the fervor of their non-belief.
It was more about destroying any rival power centres than killing people for being religious, looking at it dispassionately it is actually a clever way of tapping into religious fervour and using it for your own ends. Kind of like the Christian Church has done over the centruries, subvert the existing beliefs and structures absorbing parts of those beliefs and claiming them as your own original doctorines.[/quote]
That’s not true, though. Look it up. Much of it was driven by fear and hatred of religions…This is verifiable fact. Don’t take my word for it.
More pity than hate. I have no inner turmoil about religion.
When Christians post about God they do so because they love the Lord and enjoy being Christians. When you post what’s your motivation? In reading your posts it’s obviously not love. You are mad about God being worshiped, you’re mad about religion. You’re somehow upset, hurt, ticked off call it what you will, but you’re not at peace.
I am pretty sure there is no God.
Pretty sure? Hmmm.
Yes, I accept that there is a tiny possability that there is a god. It would have to be a pretty capricious god and there is no way it is the god described in any bible but yes there is a possibility however as the possibility is so tiny and as there is no way of knowing what that god would want then logically you might as well live life as if there were no god.
My issue is not with God per se it is with organised religion which preys on the weak and guillible.
As do gyms, health food stores, WalMart, Toys R Us, McDonalds The Boy Scouts Of America and just about every other business and organization in existence. Tell me, who poisoned you? You are using tired old talking points. There are weak and gullible people every where, they need to eat, buy things join organizations and of course find God.
And I take issue with them as well however none of them are quite as effective at preying on the weak and defensless as Religion. Companies are nolonger allowed to advertise directly to Children in the UK. Churches are. That, to my mind is wrong.
I could sit back and say nothing, respecting people’s views on religion and just trying to ignore it however that is exactly what far too many intelligent people have done for far too long, this has allowed religions to pervade every facet of people’s lives.
Every facet? Such as?
Literally every facet. Programs on television are edited so as not to offend religion. Wars are waged over religion. People are elected to office due to their religion.
It has allowed the separation of state from religion in the US to become heavily erroded and it has allowed hate mongerers to wage war accross the globe.
Hate mongers such as Hitler? Stalin? Saddam and most of the other monsters who have killed thousands and in fact millions of people? Oh wait, not one of them were Christians.
Hitler - Religious
Stalin - Raised religious, formed his own cult religion
Saddam - Religious
Your point - Absent
You have to stop toeing the atheist line on this stuff and think for yourself. Your “facts” are just opinions.
Says the person who bases their life around what an invisible man wants them to think[/quote]
What is the rational basis for your belief system? Fair question right?
[quote]pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
EDITED FOR SPACE
More pity than hate. I have no inner turmoil about religion.
When Christians post about God they do so because they love the Lord and enjoy being Christians. When you post what’s your motivation? In reading your posts it’s obviously not love. You are mad about God being worshiped, you’re mad about religion. You’re somehow upset, hurt, ticked off call it what you will, but you’re not at peace.
I am pretty sure there is no God.
Pretty sure? Hmmm.
Yes, I accept that there is a tiny possability that there is a god. It would have to be a pretty capricious god and there is no way it is the god described in any bible but yes there is a possibility however as the possibility is so tiny and as there is no way of knowing what that god would want then logically you might as well live life as if there were no god.
My issue is not with God per se it is with organised religion which preys on the weak and guillible.
As do gyms, health food stores, WalMart, Toys R Us, McDonalds The Boy Scouts Of America and just about every other business and organization in existence. Tell me, who poisoned you? You are using tired old talking points. There are weak and gullible people every where, they need to eat, buy things join organizations and of course find God.
And I take issue with them as well however none of them are quite as effective at preying on the weak and defensless as Religion. Companies are nolonger allowed to advertise directly to Children in the UK. Churches are. That, to my mind is wrong.
I could sit back and say nothing, respecting people’s views on religion and just trying to ignore it however that is exactly what far too many intelligent people have done for far too long, this has allowed religions to pervade every facet of people’s lives.
Every facet? Such as?
Literally every facet. Programs on television are edited so as not to offend religion. Wars are waged over religion. People are elected to office due to their religion.
It has allowed the separation of state from religion in the US to become heavily erroded and it has allowed hate mongerers to wage war accross the globe.
Hate mongers such as Hitler? Stalin? Saddam and most of the other monsters who have killed thousands and in fact millions of people? Oh wait, not one of them were Christians.
Hitler - Religious
Stalin - Raised religious, formed his own cult religion
Saddam - Religious
Your point - Absent
You have to stop toeing the atheist line on this stuff and think for yourself. Your “facts” are just opinions.
Says the person who bases their life around what an invisible man wants them to think
What is the rational basis for your belief system? Fair question right?
[/quote]
Totally fair question. The rational basis is scientifically testable theory.
[quote]pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
pat wrote:
quidnunc wrote:
Truth is preferable to falsehood.
People who believe falsehoods, and, based on their false beliefs, do things that are harmful to others, should be persuaded otherwise if possible.
It’s not “hatred towards Christians”, it’s abhorrence for the awful things done in the name of religion and those who deliberately spread it, especially to children who don’t know better.
Atheists still hold the record for “awful things” done to people because of their particular belief system. If you are looking for a blameless group, you will not find one, and further athiests have been the worst of them by a long shot, so that’s a bad group to join.
Nope. I’m assuming you’re making a reference to the USSR, et cetera? They did what they did because of a quasi-religious belief in the need for revolution, and so forth, not out of atheism. Atheism is not a belief but the absence of one - it is compatible with any number of political systems, whether good or bad.
BULLSHIT…Other than the fact that my family actually lived the religious persecution at the hands of the Soviets, the government practiced state atheism whose job was to rid all religions in favor of atheism.
This was not “revolution fever” this was the murdering of MILLIONS of religious people because they were religious, and rejected atheism. Don’t tell me this is some patriotic revolution run amok. This shit is well documented. China, Albania, USSR, Cambodia, etc. All practiced and spread, state sponsored atheism. Their actions were driven by the fervor of their non-belief.
It was more about destroying any rival power centres than killing people for being religious, looking at it dispassionately it is actually a clever way of tapping into religious fervour and using it for your own ends. Kind of like the Christian Church has done over the centruries, subvert the existing beliefs and structures absorbing parts of those beliefs and claiming them as your own original doctorines.
That’s not true, though. Look it up. Much of it was driven by fear and hatred of religions…This is verifiable fact. Don’t take my word for it.[/quote]
Where are you getting that from, I am genuinely interested. Everything that I have read on the matter points to it being about power and control. Obviously this was directed against religion because religion historically held the power (as it still does in many countries).
Hitler - Occultist
Stalin - Former Seminarian turned atheist. World’s cruelest dictator in history.
Saddam - Religious - but barely.
[/quote]
We could argue back and forth on Stalin, I agree that he was an avowed Atheist but it is pretty obvious to me that a religion built up around him however it is clear that you agree with me that the example the previous poster made was faulty.
[quote]GrandpaButch wrote:
The truth is if we put all the homosexuals on their own planet as simply that homosexuals within 100 years give ,or take you would all be gone,and your planet void of people.[/quote]
You’re setting up a scarecrow argument, because the reality is that heteros are here in abundance, and gays present no risk to world population. In fact, many people are worried about the problems of overpopulation, given the limited non-renewable resources of the planet.
I hear this all the time…all of those other denominations are EVIL (even the ones that call themselves Christians), and only my particular denomination has the real, bonfaide, fair dinkum truth!
My point was that Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Catholics are just as devout in their faith as you are in yours. They deeply, fervently believe that they are doing what god wants them to do. They have prayed, and god has spoken to their hearts, and confirmed that their particular brand of religion is the true religion.
Obviously, praying about something and deeply believing that god has confirmed the truth of it doesn’t correlate with reality. It’s logically impossible for all of these people to be right, because their beliefs inherently contradict.
And if they are not right, don’t you think it is possible that despite your own deep convictions, you may be similarly misguided?
I realize how hard it can be to be objective about the answer to that question. I’ve been there myself. But hopefully you can at least understand where I’m coming from.
[quote]pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
pat wrote:
Cockney Blue wrote:
Totally fair question. The rational basis is scientifically testable theory.
So your comfortable with evidence that is merely correlational.
Yes up to a point. The greater the correlation and the more points it correlates to the more faith I put in it.
As a scientist I am happy to state that pretty much everything we think we know is wrong, but only slightly wrong.
Is there a scientific basis for acting in a moral fashion? Do you consider yourself one who does? Is there a scientific definition for morality?[/quote]
There is a scientific basis for acting in a moral fashion, Dawkins has written at length about it. It comes down to selfishness at a genetic level. You can also model it using game theory.
I believe that I act in a pretty moral way most of the time.