Based on what I’ve read, this is what some guys recommend:
Wendler: work up to heavy set (5/3/1/) and then back off with 5x10 at 50-70% (Boring but Big)
Paul Carter: Work up to a heavy single and then do 1 all out rep max back off set. I feel that this could be pretty stressful. I think he has also said just to do 2-3 back off sets.
Jason Ferruggia also recommends back offs.
“135 for 100 reps as a warmup”
Seems a bit excessive.
100 does seem like a lot.
Those links didn’t come through very clearly.
The first one was “Doug Young” by Terry Todd. Young’s routine, from this article, was heavy singles up to nearly 100%, then 2 back off sets.
In a different article about Doug Young, by Josh Bryant, Young’s benching was the same. Heavy, heavy singles 5 or 6 over 90%, the 2 back off sets. In the Bryant article, the 2 back-offs were as many reps as possible. He listed weights, not percentages. I used some of Young’s benches and divided and came up with 8 singles, between 80 and 97.5%. Then back off with 90% xAMRAP and 50% xAMRAP.
Then 6x6 for six assistance exercises.
And Young did the 3 times per week. The story was like 60 pounds of bodyweight and over 200 on his bench in 5 months or something outrageous. I saw a picture of Doug sitting on the end of a bench, and he looked like it was all true.
The Second piece was from"The Single Repetition Principle" by Anthony Ditillo. He’s got a lot to say on this sort of training.
The third was just something I found on google, in reference to Doug Hepburn. I read a bunch of Hepburn’s stuff on The Tight Tan Slacks, and that paragraph kinda summed it up.
How long have you guys been able to go forward, routinely going over around 90% ? Or pushing sets to failure?
AFter 3 or 4 weeks of pushing it, my technique really falls apart, shoulders hurt, the regular stuff.
I can switch lifts, or vary the reps and do another 4 weeks or so.
But after 2 or 3 cycles this way, i really start to feel it. Trouble sleeping, trouble with little man, tingly in finger tips, cramps all over, etc.
It takes me 2 or 3 weeks to recover from this state.
Poundstone talks about hitting a heavy set for low reps then backing off for volume at 7:00 min.
I personally don’t go below 5 reps with DB presses but who am I to tell DP what to do!
Rabid water buffalo, thanks so much for posting great vid! So much great info in there.
Did you see denim dan grab those 225s? That was pretty impressive too.
How about the rubber bench? I saw in one of Ramsay’s videos he had flex bands wrapped around the bench pad for better upper back grip.
There are a lot of things that effect strength. Heavy singles develop some components of strength better than others. It is good for technique, motor pattern, and most importantly nervous system improvements. Muscle building (the other big strength component) is generally not great doing just the near max singles/triples because it?s hard to get the volume necessary using that sort of weight. So, yes it develops strength but at a point, to get stronger you just plane have to build muscle, and that normally means adding volume with lighter weights and or on other exercises.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
How long have you guys been able to go forward, routinely going over around 90% ? Or pushing sets to failure?
AFter 3 or 4 weeks of pushing it, my technique really falls apart, shoulders hurt, the regular stuff.
I can switch lifts, or vary the reps and do another 4 weeks or so.
But after 2 or 3 cycles this way, i really start to feel it. Trouble sleeping, trouble with little man, tingly in finger tips, cramps all over, etc.
It takes me 2 or 3 weeks to recover from this state.[/quote]
I’m about the same as you.
I’ve been able to throw some electrolytes at the problem (mainly potassium and magnesium), fish oil and zinc, but I haven’t found a way has really been sustainable.
I once did a month-long bulgarian-ish experiment, plus overloaded partials twice a week, and it left me in pretty rough shape. Muscles were achy, and they’d actually start cramping up while lifting. I’d start out warming up, feel pretty loose, and as soon as I started hitting a point where there was any real mechanical tension, the tightness and cramping would just ratchet up.
It was basically the same idea as a pump, but instead it was cramping and stiffness.
In the end, after a couple stints in that direction, I’ve realized that when training regularly in the 90%+ range, the side effects are just too much to handle while juggling a relationship and a thinking-based job.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
The more you make the ramp ups “count” the less energy you will have for the true, heavy lifts.
If you do lots of work in the 75-85% range, you are starting to just duplicate the effort you will shoot for on “speed” day. Westside has two days that are like TOTALLY opposite. One is heavy and slow, one is light and fast. One is low volume, one is high. The frequency is high (twice a week) so they days have to be radically different. Heavy day is supposed to be like 50% of the volume of fast day. If you just do a bunch of work around 80-85% both days you are kinda muddying up the 2 days.
-In my personal experience, if I am gonna combine heavy/light in the same workout, the light weights are much more effective after the heavy weights, not before. They just move different after the heavy stuff. [/quote]
I agree with that, but that’s not really where I was going with my post.
My point was that the Max Effort day, done properly, shares more than most think with the more Russian influenced 3x3, 5x3 etc. style. Think about it, if in working up to your max triple you end up doing 3 sets at or above 85%, then you’ve got the same volume as the 3x3 day but higher intensity, which goes to “learning to strain” and also learning to hold your technique and adjust under heavy weight.
Same goes for max singles, though quite obviously the weight is lower. Especially if you go up, hit a single, then back off for a couple sets of 3 or 5. Many ways to skin a cat, and a lot of really effective lifters use similar ideas.
I wouldn’t really consider 3x3 or 5x3 high volume, especially when on DE day you’re doing 8-12x3. It still ends up being significantly lower volume on Max Effort than DE.
Also, I don’t consider 2x a week “high frequency” or anywhere close ;). But I understand what you were saying.
A-
Your post last week went right over my head. I’m glad you responded though, because after rereading it a few times, your post really has me thinking.
The idea of RAISING peak intensity while MAINTAINING the volume is something I never got my head around. No wonder I’m always wearing myself out. As i try for higher weights, I don’t usually consider the “warm ups” between 85% and my new max. Just a few “extra” reps here and there can really increase the total volume in a hurry!
Week 1
200x2
210x1
220x1
Week 3
200x2
210x2
220x1
230x1
Doesn’t seem like much difference written out, but the volume increased like 50%!!!
No wonder I’m burning myself out!
Thanks for coming back to check on me.
Many great points, personally dont think westside is a year round template but a 8-9 week run once or twice a year can work wonders
I’m going to ramble on a bit here, so I’ll put my main thought and the TL/DR up front. I think there is something magical about 90%. It’s that number where fatigue can really start to take its toll on the body if not managed well. Just from reading some logs and following a few different successful lifters, I’m in the opinion that -most- people are not “routinely” going over 90% (Let’s say one or more sessions a week – I don’t consider every other week routinely). Here’s why:
Looking at it from an RPE perspective, 90% isn’t usually that tough if you are proficient at heavy low rep work (versus higher rep).
I think “max” is a dangerous term and we get caught up in the linguistics of it more than what the body is actually doing. If you’re doing a daily max type program, unless you’ve peaked and you’re going for a new 1RM the number you are chasing is likely further from your max than you think (most of the days) since you will be worn out. And then there’s always the question of how someone is programming their max – is it a number they hit before, or is it a projected max 3 weeks from now? And you’ve got to consider that people may just be poor at reporting. I even remember reading Chaos and Pain back when he posted a lot of training stuff and then comparing it with meet numbers…most of his stuff was probably 85-90% and not as much over 90%. The “max” work he often did do were things like shrugs and partials.
When people write in 90% it may well mean very different things to the individuals on top of their gauge being different too. And it’s easy enough to say “Well I just mean a hard set, an RPE of 9 or 10, 1 rep left in the tank”, but I think we’ve all been in times when we need to build a base again and weight that felt light BEFORE feels like you’re maxing out NOW but in a week or two is really light again. Does that mean it was your “max” when you started (my thoughts – of course not)?
Look at what people do (or how they do it) and not just what they say. I don’t think there is a ton of max work on the big composite lifts in the literal meaning of max. I also think there are some periods when people can push hard for awhile and see some great gains too but it may not necessarily be just because of the ME work. IE, guy pushes hard for 8 weeks and claims xx program got him 35 lbs on his bench, but maybe it was all the crap that “didn’t work” for the 4 months before that set up his body to reap benefits from the maximal work.
[quote]FlatsFarmer wrote:
How long have you guys been able to go forward, routinely going over around 90% ? Or pushing sets to failure?
[/quote]
The effects take awhile to build up and require me to consistently under-recover or overwork. I have to consistently make mistakes for a month or so I guess 
No matter how long the time it takes I think the important thing to note is (1) you can work yourself until you break (2) you need to find a balance of pushing hard and getting the recovery
(3) Getting a feel for when a lift is definitely ready to be pushed hard and could benefit from max work
Great stuff Sute.
Don’t blame the method for MY mistakes.
Not a fan of doing singles over 90% on a regular basis in training. I think it tests strength rather than builds it.
With the Westside type of Max Effort, you’re learning to strain through movements and muscles that are weak on your comp lift. Say your hips are weak and your low back crumples because of it. Then box squats could be a really good ME exercise choice because the emphasis will be on your hips and glutes and those will have to really strain and that will help enforce doing that on the comp lift too.
So instead of like before where your hips just give up and your low back and quads take over, you strain and grind through that part of the lift helping you maintain good form and lift more.
Of course, without the other methods in the system, it’s only so good in and of itself.