Those men certainly exist, and I would argue many of them are either saying they don’t care about bodycount as a cope for their own mate selection (and lack of options!), or out of sheer ignorance. Some may genuinely not care, but I would question their investment level in their life partners.
A good conversation stopper for these men is “how many men do you want your daughter to have sex with before she marries her husband?”
It’s rather tough to rationalize any answer over “0”.
I like the way you phrased this; it is a two-fold problem.
Men don’t want to be this guy, and I get it.
Opting out of the market is both a cope, and a reasonable reaction, depending individual reasons. But it doesn’t solve any problems.
Reducing promiscuity (for both men and women) is the ideal way to solve this… but how?
Women can have a line of 50 guys before the dude with the flowers shows up, and then she will begrudgingly settle for him. He will feel lucky because he’s finally getting the girl, even though her past bothers him (if she’s honest about it, which is unlikely). Simps cause more societal harm than female promiscuity, but then it becomes a chicken and egg scenario where the more promiscuity there is - the more simps there are.
I can’t blame dudes for going MGTOW honestly - it just doesn’t solve anything.
It’s not even that it all needs to stop. People who can be accountable for the choices they make should have the freedom to do as they please. The problem is making those choices, being upset with the outcome, and then blaming society. When anything approaches or surpasses the majority, public acceptance naturally shifts. This stands with anything.
10% of the world obese - “Unhealthy, disgusting”
30% of the world obese - “You should try to eat better and move more”
50% of the world obese - “Try and be healthier but you do you, hun”
70% of the world is obese - “You’re perfect just the way you are”
90% of the world obese - “Look at those disgusting skinny people”
Something like that could easily be made up for the perception on sleeping around.
It’s recent, but it’s prevalent and spreading. I think porn contributes as well - “what do I want and what’s fun for me to do.” It’s about bringing yourself pleasure, not about filling out a duty toward another person or society.
Plenty of people disagree though.
Eh. You don’t believe in God but I think we all worship something, haha.
Booty?
I think most men will agree with you on this. It can be a triggering topic with women though. It seems common for a lot of women to just view it as a double standard that isn’t fair. That ignores that men and women play completely different games (by this I don’t mean mind games, just that it is completely different) regarding sex.
I will say though that a man having a high body count doesn’t necessarily mean he has value. For that to be true the women he is sleeping with would need to also have to be high quality (feels gross saying that). I’ve known some dudes that are not attractive, that don’t have a lot of money, and are even socially weird that have slept around a lot, but the women aren’t exactly what I’d be looking for.
It is an odd question haha. I don’t have a daughter, but I wouldn’t want her to deal with heartbreak if I did. Meaning, ideally I’d want her to find a perfect guy for her on her first try. That being said, that isn’t the real world. Sometimes things don’t work out. What I’d care about is that she values herself. I wouldn’t care if she had sex with a guy that she thought was good for her, that was taking her seriously. If that doesn’t work out, that’s what happens sometimes.
Does it make sense as a man to be worried about a woman’s body count being higher than 0 if all of those were in committed relationships? If there isn’t hook ups / one night stands, it shows that she doesn’t give herself away without commitment from a man. To me that indicates a low chance of cheating, because cheating for a woman is basically sex without commitment (perhaps hope of a commitment down the road). It shows that she isn’t driven by sexual impulse, and thinks about who she sleeps with. In a transactional sense as a man, it also doesn’t feel like you are getting a bad deal by giving her commitment when other guys also had to. I think this really bothers a lot of guys that commit to women have slept around a lot. They feel of less value because they had to commit to this woman when others didn’t. In a formula it is the guy + his commitment gets sex with this woman, but for the other guy, it was just that guy. Mathematically, this means that since the commitment has value, and that sex is of equal value, that they are less than the other guy. This I believe is also the part that stings the most for a guy when his woman cheats on him. How does he not value himself as less than the other guy? His woman thinks that, or at least her actions indicate that’s what she thinks, since she is getting commitment from him, but not the affair partner.
There are always so many generalizations in these conversations.
We are mammals with a biological drive to reproduce. We call this drive sexuality, and then attempt to define and regulate what a healthy expression looks like via religious and other social constructs.
So body count matters as much as your belief system values it. Do you believe sex is for a marriage to be ordained by God via a guy with a book written by some other guys?
Are you driven by insecurity and a need to control exposure to competition?
Are you echoing what you’ve heard like a cultural lemming?
Do you have a low sex drive and need a partner to match?
I have never heard a truly objective answer around one number being better or healthier than another.
Some guys are insecure. They worry that they aren’t the best or biggest she has had. They can also feel insecure because of this (quoting myself here):
This is especially true if the woman makes that particular man commit before sex, but didn’t with other men.
There also is research (which I am not sure as to the quality, but it seems reasonable) which shows at least a correlation between the number of sexual partners, and likelihood of cheating or divorce. I won’t go as far as saying this is a causal factor, but it is a correlation. Could be that having lots of partners is a symptom of other issues, and those are more the causal factors that lead to cheating or divorce.
This doesn’t address how little non-human copulation for pleasure alone is occurring.
I think this is something passed around religious circles to reinforce sold belief systems.
Sex for pleasure has been noted for some time in advanced animal species. Dolphins, apes et cetera. Apes even routinely masturbate.
Hell, if you’ve ever had an intact dog you’ve seen him aggressively hump anything available when the mood hits.
Animal studies have come a long way in the last few decades. We now know the majority of them are intelligent and emotionally reactive creatures vs walking bags of instincts, they do have sexualities respective to species, and studies are catching up.
You only have to look inside yourself to know that you have a sex drive, and it doesn’t take deep science to realize your decisions around managing it are learned behaviors, not the other way around.
So, how many men do you want your daughter sleeping with before finding a husband?
5?
15?
50?
Most mammalian species reproduce via rape on a reoccurring basis, so we should be fine to do the same, right?
Horse feathers. I never heard anything like that.
If you want to talk Biblically, the sole reason for marriage is to have God approved sexual intercourse. That’s as close as you get religious reinforcement. Maybe, that is what you are stating.
Any secular thinking human clearly sees that mammals aren’t even in the same league as humans when it comes to having sex solely for pleasure.
As soon as you put a number on anything with men it becomes a competition. Greater than, less than, etc.
Cuz we’re freakin nuts.
Me & two buddies went out to check out a creek that has natural brook trout which had just experienced a massive terrain changing flood. We really just wanted to see what was left, if anything.
So we string up the rods and start hiking. I find a nice pool and drop a fly right on target, and a little brook about the size of a mans finger smacks it. Can’t even actually bite the fly.
Wouldn’t you know it, we stood there for at least 45 minutes, all three of us, trying to get that thing to hit again. Cuz I was first! And on that day, the Only one to even get a rise.
Because manhood. 
This is such a tired question.
I want her to live the life that genuinely makes her happy and fulfilled. I suspect this will ultimately lead to a relationship/partnership but not without dating and learning likes/dislikes, needs et cetera and probably sowing some wild oats.
I don’t have a sexual partner quota for my daughter. That would be weird. When and if she is ready to be married, and has met the right man & knows it I hope she has the best marriage possible. I also hope she is able to make as much of an educated decision around marriage as she does emotional.
Rape by whose definition? Just because a deer doesn’t get married in a church doesn’t mean it’s being raped when in heat and bred. Another example of humans projecting belief systems.
In any case, as stated in my earlier post, we package right and wrong around sexuality based on belief systems. Probably safe to say humans have different belief systems than lesser evolved animals. If the question was “how many times is it ok to commit rape” I would say zero, but the question was how many people it’s ok to have sex with.
You tell me. 1 person in a lifelong, religiously ordained spouse? Specifically within a Christian marriage as it’s the one true truth and only legitimate authority, or it ok for Muslims and Buddhists to claim wives and have a single sex partner forever too?
As many wives as can be supported so long as they’re still in a marriage, albeit a polygamist one? Ordained by Mormon Priests?
Serious relationships with emotional involvement only? And how many of these are ok to have in a lifetime?
Maybe an occasional casual fling or even one night stand as long as you regret it a little and move on to a “serious relationship” next?
Open marriage?
Single and playing the field because why not?
What is the universal right answer?
Yet you anthropomorphize them when it comes to sex and “pleasure”? Sex is used much different even when viewed through the lens of “it feels good” it serves other purposes, such as social bonding, stress relief, and diffusing situations. Bonobos found out you can do in 10 seconds what took 1-hour though grooming. Same goes for all “smart” animals.
Even with the gold standard of Bonobos from the free love crowd. From the article.
“Proposed functions of these behaviors, in social primates generally, include practice, paternity confusion, exchange, and communication as well as appeasement.”
“bonobo sexual contact was concentrated most heavily in socially tense situations in adult female”
No. Deer do go in to heat and copulate. This is commonly known as the “rut”. They do not get married in churches. This is observable fact. I asked “by what definition”. No anthropomorphizing here.
“This doesn’t address how little non-human copulation for pleasure alone is occurring.”
"I think this is something passed around religious circles to reinforce sold belief systems.
Sex for pleasure has been noted for some time in advanced animal species. Dolphins, apes et cetera. Apes even routinely masturbate.?"
Yet you anthropomorphize them when it comes to sex and “pleasure”? Sex is used much different even when viewed through the lens of “it feels good” it serves other purposes, such as social bonding, stress relief, and diffusing situations. Bonobos found out you can do in 10 seconds what took 1-hour though grooming. Same goes for all “smart” animals.
Even with the gold standard of Bonobos from the free love crowd. From the article.
“Proposed functions of these behaviors, in social primates generally, include practice, paternity confusion, exchange, and communication as well as appeasement.”
“bonobo sexual contact was concentrated most heavily in socially tense situations in adult female”
