Right Side Up,
I think Kerry has projected more spending than Bush (incidentally, not covered by the upper income tax repeals), and is planning to cut the deficit more slowly. Can you direct me to an article that compares the two?
Rightsideup,
Bush did in fact locate Bin Ladens headquarters (Afghanistan). And, under his leadership rooted the terrorists out of that country, killing thousands! If you think that Al Quida is as powerful a network as it once was, I have a piece of property in Flordia I would like to sell you—Sight unseen of course.
The fact that we have not yet captured or killed Bin Laden, (He is actually in a holding cell deep under the White Hose-You nutty conspiracy theory junkies are a riot), is nothing out of the ordinary. Hitler and Mussolini were not actually killed until late in world war two. It is actually quite rare that the opposing side in a military confrontation is captured or killed early on. The fact that we actually captured Saddam is a tribute to the fine operation that we are running in Iraq. The liberal media will not tell you that GI deaths are considerably lower since the capture of Saddam. They just ratified the new constitution bringing together the various factions in that country. I just wanted to mention since Dan would “Rather” leave it out of his news cast.
As to your other erroneus statements: Bush does in fact have a bigger war chest than Kerry. And that will not change regardless of how hard that you and he try. (Glad you stated that all you are doing is voting for him-as that will not help either). The reason however is not because of “fat cats.” In reality Bush has received more smaller donations (under $100) than Kerry! (he also beat Gore in small donations-and Gore beat him in larger ones!) Surprise! You have to stop believing the liberal propaganda. Grab a hold of your head with both hands and pull it out of your ass. (don’t get mad I couldn’t resist).
It is now known that the new political limits on donations have negatively effected the democrats far more than the republicans. Do you know why? Because the Labor unions (AFL CIO, NEA etc), were donating large sums of money to the democrats! The republicans (even with all of their corporate “fat cats”) could not keep up with the amount of large checks(over $2000 each) contributed to the democratic party! I am applauding the election reform laws! As is President Bush.
Finally, the reason that we are discussing this is simple. We can only talk about Squatting and Deadlifting for so long without a break!
P.S.
Liberal Definition of a dumb guy:
- Yale and Harvard graduate
- Successful Entreprenuer
- Two term Governor of the largest state
- Elected President of the United States
brianb,
Great post! I am still waiting for these liberal whiners to show me how President Bush is making money because of the Iraq invasion-If liberals were not so pathetically gullible they would be funny.
“He was in oil there is oil in Iraq. HE MUST BE MAKING MONEY WAAAAAA”
Brian B,
I’m not sure your post is worth cutting and pasting to pick apart piece by piece. You took my points and twisted them into weird arguments that I hardly made.
Like I said before, I know little about economics, but I do know that the deficit/surplus story has less to do with the .com bust as you seem to have stated. The internet boom and subsequent bust did have much to do with the economic success under Clinton, I’m sure, but so did the job creation developed by his administration. I also understand that government spending has to do with federal budgets/surpluses. I don’t know that Bush spends as wisely as he could. I’ll be the first to accept it if I’ve misunderstood these ideas.
I didn’t say Bush knew of 9/11…at all. So don’t be a dickhead. I do find the Bush-Bin Laden relationship troubling, and I think it’s a testament to the notion that there are an elite few who have tremendous influence in the world.
While George Bush was head of the CIA, we did funnel arms to OSAMA BIN LADEN and fund training for he and his to fight the Soviets, though. Will you ignore this too?
BTW, Bush raised $3 million today for his campaign. Hooray.
Not at the moment B. Smith.
Right Side Up,
Keep me posted. I’m looking for this information.
…I think you may want to consider that our MILITARY aid went to ONE group, the Mujahadeen. Later, many of their members joined the Taliban. On the other hand we gave major HUMANITARIAN aid (mostly food) to Afghanistan when they fought the Soviets. So the dollar figure cited by the people you are reading is likely from that.
I think our aid to the Mujahadeen was a very minor gaffe compared to our support of certain parties in the Reagan era. Also, remember the Senate proposals (Lieberman, McCain and others) to arm the Bosian Muslims (who admittedly are more moderate) for their self-defense? One argument was that it would help avoid the necessity for mass casualities in bombings. I believe the arms embargo was eventually lifted, after many bombing deaths, despite the opposition of Kerry.
Well I was only partially responding to your post.
The surplus evaporation and deficits are due to 3 things in about equal amount (I think). A recession, tax cuts (made when surpluses were projected), and increased spending.
My main point is that you can’t blame Bush for the recession. Recessions are part of the business cycle. Any economist will tell you that cutting taxes during a recession is standard procedure.
As for the great jobs during Clinton, that was part of my point. Clinton had no specific “jobs program”…no president does, even though they act like they do. They take the credit when the economy is good and creating jobs and take the blame when the economy isn’t good. To a large extent it has nothing to do with them.
Jobs are part of the private sector…when the Nasdaq collapsed it took down 500,000 jobs with it. Now government can actually literally CREATE jobs by starting new programs, hiring federal workers etc. But most of the job growth is done in the private sector by thousands of different companies and agents. So I think it’s silly (although everyone does it) to blame Bush for a jobless recovery.
You may not have said Bush was in with bin Laden but a previous poster asked if someone was aware of their “mysterious connections in the 1980s”. I’ve heard people refer to this before…another is that we invaded Afghanistan b/c “we” wanted to put an oil pipeline through it and the Taliban wouldn’t let us. Pretty absurd and slanderous stuff…but it’s difficult to “disprove a negative”.
About the CIA and OBL; yeah it’s true we worked with him some getting the Soviets out of Afghanistan. But so what? Why does that make us guilty in our own attack? Or imply even more sinisterly that we somehow ordered it? (“WE TRAINED HIM!!” I’ve heard some people say).
Usually when you help someone they are grateful. In this case he was such a spiteful dickhead he turned on us and attacked us. Doesn’t make it our fault though. If we hadn’t helped him then liberals would say “he wanted our help and we didn’t help him…so of couse he attacked us!! It’s our own fault”. In reality we did help him and he attacked us anyway, the ingrate, …and somehow it’s our fault (not saying you’re saying this but it’s a standard part of the “America is Always in the Wrong” crowds’ ideas).
ZEB, Brian B, and Brian Smith,
I’ll no longer go through each post and reply to every statement I take issue with. It is useless. Zeb O’Reilly has spoiled my enthusiasm.
I prefer to instead blame you all for exclusively defending a doctrine. Perhaps I blame myself as well, but not likely. Are you unwilling to acknowledge that these debates are largely futile because we’re all so deeply indebted to our belief system? This argument has sadly become stupid…Blame me for believing the liberal media, I blame you back for believing the media’s liberal (You must have seen Bill O Reilly’s little monologue on the elite media–available for download!). Are press releases not spun how they must be to protect various interests??? Of course they are.
Did you not see my comment about OBL and Bush’s relationship bothering me b/c of how it demonstrates the elite handful with great power? Do you not agree??
Brianb, that pipeline story is very, very real. Again, I never pointed to their relationship in the 80’s as evidence that Bush had in on 9/11. But remember the ex-cabinet member who announced that the Bush admin had an agenda to move in on Iraq from day one?
Have any of you responded to my concern that the attention to Iraq came from nowhere? We switched to a war with them from where? WMD’s? Evidently not. Terrorists? No, the Saudi ties were greater…hmmm…
Zeb, ever think that there are ways around political contributions??? ie, all of my 1000 employees can contribute $100. Yes, seems as though they’re only $100 contributions, but when my company actually paid the money in the name of my employees, it’s still a $100,000 contribution. My head is anywhere but in my ass. I am very open to changing my mind, especially in the face of sound reasoning. Judging by your posts, you’re too deep in the Elephant shit to say the same.
Brian Smith, do your own HW. I am impressed by the number of articles the BB and yourself produce, but I haven’t the time…sorry.
Ahem, are they no Dems on here any longer to fight the good fight with me?
How can anyone think Bush is strong on defense?
Wasn’t he president when America suffered it’s worst attack on the homeland ever?
Wasn’t he against forming a Department of Homeland Security?
Hasn’t he underfunded firefighters and other first resonders?
Isn’t he stonewalling the 9-11 commission?
Didn’t he appoint one of his friends to investigate the failure of intelligence leading up to the illegal Iraq invasion?
Hasn’t he seriously overextended the US military without an exit plan for Iraq?
Aren’t we on the brink of financial disaster here in the US, with the runaway GOP spending and massive deficits, spending more than any Democratic president for the last 35 years?
The answer is YES to all of the above.
How can anyone think Bush is strong on defense?
-YEs
Wasn’t he president when America suffered it’s worst attack on the homeland ever?
—Yes, and FDR was a great wartime president and yet we had Pearl Harbor. Ponderous I know. You cant logically blame a President for a massive intelligence and security failure that was endemic for at least 15 years.
Wasn’t he against forming a Department of Homeland Security?
-But he did
Hasn’t he underfunded firefighters and other first resonders?
—Nope, check your numbers. Just because he funds them less than liberals would and instead chooses to use some of the finite amount of money we have to cut them off at the pass (i.e defense spending) does not mean they are underfunded.
Isn’t he stonewalling the 9-11 commission?
—Palast anyone?
Didn’t he appoint one of his friends to investigate the failure of intelligence leading up to the illegal Iraq invasion?
Who would that be? McCain? Are you on crack. If thats who you are talking about you are insane. Those two hate each other more than you hate logic.
Hasn’t he seriously overextended the US military without an exit plan for Iraq?
—No.
Did Lumpy’s nickname come from his parents dropping him on his head as a kid?
YES
Right Side Up,
I thought it was obvious that I was simply asking for you to forward/post such an article if you come upon it, in good time, as a courtesy. I will do the same.
I’m not sure you know where I stand politically, but not everybody has to think our President is the most evil or incompetent man on the planet. There’s a lot of actual news and thought in between the punditry of Al Franken and Bill O’Reilly. I can’t speak for anyone else on this board, but I don’t read either of them. I don’t know who you read, but maybe you should study more articles that support particular decisions by President Bush so you can compare their POVs to the hyperemotional criticism that’s out there. You can start with the ones written by Democrats if you don’t believe that there are any smart and good-willed conservative thinkers, at least among those who support Bush. Just an idea, but as I said, I don’t know what you read now.
Lumpy,
Why do you think that Bush was against the Homeland Security Department? And by “his friend,” you mean John McCain correct?
This is very amusing.
I started this thread with a simple question: Does anyone actually like Kerry.
All the responses thus far (quick perusal – sorry if I have missed anything) have been about Bush. All the vitriol about how awful Bush is, and how people hate Bush. And here I thought the Democrats wanted a positive campaign? =-)
No good words about Kerry. No one extolling his virtues as a leader or a President.
If the focus is solely on Bush, Kerry has lost already. Not that it was looking particularly rosy, with the economy and foreign policy trending positively. Of course, I don’t mind this at all, as I enjoy my new lower tax rate – just an observation.
Has anyone mentioned this yet:“The head of a civil rights and legal services advocacy group wants Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry (news - web sites) to apologize for saying he wouldn’t be upset if he could be known as the second black president.” This is from MSN.
Me Solomon Grundy
Dear republicans but mostly the narrow minded left
some news about your “leaders”
Bush/Kerry both members of "skulls and bones’ an organization that has only had 15 members NOT become president in its over 200 year old history… When a member of Skulls and bones dies, their body is left in the Yale tomb ( their meeting place) to decompose and to be worshiped. G.H.W Bush ( bush Sr.) father Prescott Bush’s skull is considered to be holy to the Skull and Bones members. ( thusly john kerry finds Prescott Bush to be holy as well)
Here are but a few Skull and Bones members that you might have heard about
William F. Buckley, Jr. (Bones Class of 1950):
Founder of National Review, the leading conservative magazine in the United States. Brother James (Skull & Bones l944) is now a member of the U.S. Court of Appeals. William F. Buckley, Jr., former CIA officer in Mexico, also built the political grassroots conservative movement in the U.S. in the 1960s. President Bush and Buckley have recently split over Buckley’s strong pro-lsraelism.
McGeorge Bundy (Skull & Bones initiate of 1940):
Scion of the Skull & Bones Bundy family. Father Harvey H. Bundy was Skull & Bones, as was brother William P. Bundy. McGeorge served in the War Department during World War II as Henry Stimson’s assistant and later became the National Security Adviser to President Kennedy. William Bundy became a CIA official and later served in key positions at the Departments of State and Defense. McGeorge headed the Ford Foundation (1968-1980) and William chaired the Council on Foreign Relations (1972-1983).
George Bush (initiated in 1948):
President of the United States. Comes from a complete Bones family. Father Prescott, a Bones initiate of the class of 1917. Uncle George Herbert Walker, Bones Class of 1927. U S Federal District Court Judge John Walker is also a relative and a Bonesman.
Alfred Cowles (Class of 1913):
Built the Cowles Communication empire based on the Des Moines (lowa) Register and the Minneapolis (Minnesota) Star and Tribune. These two newspapers play a significant role in shaping the early presidential primaries, especially in Iowa.
Hugh Cunningham (Bones 1934):
CIA man from 1947 to 1973. He served in top positions in the Clandestine Services, the Board of National Estimates and later as Director of Training.
Thomas Daniels (initiated in 1914):
Founder of the largest agro-business and grain cartel company in Minnesota – Archer-Daniels-Midland (ADM). Served in the Foreign Service and later during World War II as head of the Fats and Oils Section of the War Production Board. ADM Corporation’s new head Dwayne Andreas is one of the most powerful figures in U.S.-Soviet trade relations. Daniels’s only son, John (Bones 1943), also works in ADM. The bank which underwrites ADM stock issues is the Morgan Stanley investment bank
Richard Ely Danielson (Skull & Bones 1907):
Past publisher of the Atlantic Monthly magazine, one of the leading magazines for seeing which policy line on a variety of issues is coming out of the Eastern Establishment.
Russell Wheeler Davenport (initiated in 1923):
Fortune magazine writer and editor, made this magazine the leading authority on financial matters in the United States. Davenport created the Fortune 500 companies list.
Henry P. Davison (Bones Class of l920):
Key senior partner in the Morgan banking and financial trust networks. His fellow Bonesman Harold Stanley (1908) founded the investment bank Morgan Stanley. Davison and his family helped set up the Guaranty Trust Corporation which became Morgan Guaranty Thomas Cochran (1904 Bonesman) was one of the most powerful partners in the Morgan bank. The influence of the Morgan banking system can be seen in its relationship with the hierarchy of U.S. intelligence. The head of the Office of Strategic Services, Gen. William Donovan, worked as a Morgan intelligence operative in the 1920s and prepared the intelligence reports for the Morgan banking concerns on developments in Europe. F. Trubee Davison became CIA Director of Personnel in 1951 and placed key Bonesmen in the right positions inside the CIA.
Averell Harriman (1913 initiate):
Scion of the Harriman railroad family. His brother Roland (Skull & Bones 1917) ran the investment bank Brown Brothers Harriman. Averell was one of the most powerful members of the Skull & Bones fraternity, His government posts ranged from Ambassador to Russia during World War II and various State Department positions to chief negotiator on the Vietnam Talks. Confidential adviser to Presidents Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson and later Nixon and Carter. His investment banking firm is virtually a Skull & Bones bank&Mac220;nine senior partners are from Skull & Bones. President Bush’s father worked in Brown Brothers Harriman after helping to merge several companies in the United Rubber Corporation of America.
Winston Lord (Bones Class of 1959):
Chairman of the Council on Foreign Relations (1983-l988). Former State Department official and CIA officer in Asia. China expert. Six members of the Lord family were Skull & Bones, including Charles Edwin Lord, former Comptroller of the Currency, Department of the Treasury. Oswald Bates Lord (Skull & Bones l926) married Mary Pillsbury of the Minnesota based Pillsbury Flour Corporation. Winston Lord is their son.
Robert A. Lovett (1918 initiate):
Put together the Brown Brothers Harriman merger and later organized the aviation industry mobilization for World War II. Became part of the most exclusive power group in World War II under Henry Stimson. Lovett was one of the five or six most powerful men in the United States for nearly 40 years until his death in 1986.
Henry Luce (initiated in 1920):
Built the Time-Life publishing empire. Became the leading publicist of the “American century” doctrine.
Dino Pionzio (Bones Class of 1950):
CIA deputy chief of station in Chile during the overthrow of Chilean President Salvador Allende. Now works at the investment firm Dillion Read.
Alphonso Taft (initiated in 1833):
Secretary of War (1876), Attorney General (1876-1877) and later Minister to Austria and Russia. Co-founder of Skull & Bones.
Robert A. Taft (1910 initiate):
Speaker of the House of Representatives (1921-1926) and Senator (R-Ohio). Leader of the Isolationist movement in the 1930s. His son Robert A. Taft, Jr., also senator from Ohio, led the right-wing of the Republican Party in the 1950s and 1960s. Robert A. Taft, Jr., however, was the only member of the Taft family who was not Skull & Bones.
William H. Taft (Skull & Bones 1878):
President of the United States (1908-1912) and appointed Chief Justice of the Supreme Court (1921-1930). Secretary of War (1904-1908). Trustee, Carnegie Institution. Part of the long line of Tafts who served in the U.S. government.
William Collins Whitney (initiated 1863):
Secretary of the Navy (1885-1889). Promoter of the Naval Shipyards and financier. Part of the Whitney family which sent eight of its members to Yale to become Skull & Bonesmen. Family intermarried with the Payne, Harriman and Vanderbilt clans. The Whitneys became some of Wall Street’s most powerful financiers through the Guaranty and Knickerbocker Trust Companies.
Current U.S. senators who are Skull & Bones members:
Sen. Jonathan Bingham (D-N.M.).
Sen. David Boren (D-Okla.) is chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Sen. John Chafee (R-R.I.); Former Navy Secretary and on the Senate Intelligence Committee.
Sen. John Heinz (R-Pa.): Recently killed in an airplane crash. was a Bonesman as was his father. The Heinz family has one of the largest food-producing companies in the world.KERRY IS ALSO MARRIED TO HEINZ DAUGHTER
Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.): Formerly on the Senate Intelligence Committee, Kerry is now on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Both Bush and Kerry are members of the Tri Lateral Commission- Tri lats are a global political group that dictates a global agenda that keeps a stable environment which also holds the global majority down… it can be likened to Royalty, only certain families are allowed to be in this organization, and it is decided on blood line ( yes war is apart of that stability) Every president from Johnson on has been and is in this organization
The Tri Lateral Commission also made the choice on who won the last presidential election, Gore won, but he is NOT a member of the Commission ( though Clinton is) and thusly was eliminated. His life in politics has also been ended by the commission.
Osama Bin Laden is also a member of the Tri Lateral COUNCIL not the Commission. The council is a larger but weaker group that is the political front for the Commission. Dan Rather and Barbara walters are also members.
In short… if you like/hate bush for X reasons…you are suppose to… if you like/hate kerry for X reasons, that is the plan as well. There is no free will in american/global politics. Don’t believe me? Don’t vote, get every one to stay home and DO NOT VOTE. And nothing will change.
Saddam Hussein IS a member of the C.I.A and was trained and put in power by the Tri Lateral Commission. He did go crazy, he would not step down when he was asked to, so he had to be removed. Keep a watch out. He will never be executed for his war crimes which he did commit.
I have much more But I am sick of typing
SO REMEMBER you keep thinking bush is a bad guy, and that republicans are evil… and you republicans… you keep thinking that the democrats are going to bring the moral down fall of society… that is exactly what you are suppose to do.
So lay your head down my children and go back to sleep. I wont let the boogie man come…
PS. I can’t let the Howard Dean supporters out either. I admit I was impressed by mr. dean. However, here is a bit of some back story information about him and his family… Howard Dean is the son of the “DEAN” in Dean Witter which holds a roughly $77 billion fund business, combined with the assets of VKAC, created one of only six companies in the nation to hold more than $100 billion in mutual fund assets, and is the largest crediter in the world… oh … did I fail to mention… is also in the Tri Lateral Commission. Howard Dean is NOT in the Commission, but family does reap rewards.
Oh, Jesus H. Christ…
Actually, very interesting. Please give some more information concerning the Masons and any tie-ins with Skull & Bones.
This stuff is almost as good as the Halliburton conspiracy theories.
RightSideUp,
Actually, the mehtod that you describe as being one form of political contribution is illegal! You cannot, as an employer, insist that each of your employees donate any amount of money to your favorite candidate.
If you are suggesting that this has occurred in such large numbers to make Bush’s contributions actually look like many small donors support him, then I would only tell you that you are quite wrong!
It is obvious that you have never owned a company (of any size), getting many employees to actually do their work is hard enough, without also complicating the relationship by leaning on them regarding a political donation to your candidate. We can add practacilly impossible to the illegal statement that I began my post with.
Why is it that all of the George Bush haters throw out these inane arguments and then never have any proof to back them up? For that matter why is it that we (I am guilty as well) always demonize our opponents? This is a standard human behavior, I think. Instead of simply disagreeing with them on that specific point, we must attatch other negative connotations to their character.
I’m not going to count, but aren’t there more than 15 members of skull and bones listed above that didn’t become president?
Illuminati!!!
->I made it up, Zeb. The particular “example” I gave wasn’t the point…Are corporate executives not crafty enough to find ways around contribution laws? This was my point.
And no, never owned a company…?
“Why is it that all of the George Bush haters…”
->Well said. See my previous comment about elephant shit.
I have acknowledged my ignorance regarding various particulars–I am not equipped to engage in what I’d consider quality discourse in economics, presidential history, international relations, etc.–I have a general understanding of the issues. I am smart enough to know where I can and where I ought not speak. I try not to overstep these boundaries, but am sometimes drawn in on emotions…and I know you all know how that is!
That said, here are the general reasons I am opposed to the current administration and desire a change in the White House:
-Gore won in 2000. There was some funny business at the Supreme Court level after the election. I believe Scalia was the name, I think I have the name wrong though. You all know this story.
-Bush is not qualified. I have a problem when our democractic election system allows an imbecile to lead the country. He is uneducated in all of the areas he needs to be a near expert in. I’ve never felt as though he has had any say in any of the speeches he’s delivered. He sometimes seems surprised at the things he’s saying, as though he’s reading them for the first time and thinking “Wow, good idea!”
-He’s slimey. Knowing of his broad range of connections, family and otherwise, I always wonder what intentions lie behind the decisions he makes.
-9/11 was horrible. Probably the only time I felt comfortable about Bush was the shot of when he was first told of the disaster. He had a genuine expression, one of the only ones I’ve ever seen from him. But the liberal in me thinks Bush was hasty in moving. Yes, the investigation should have begun immediately, bombing an entire country wasn’t necessary.
-Afghanistan and Osama were replaced by Iraq and Sadaam–out of nowhere. Suddenly, this was the immenent threat and our attention was there. It seemed, and still seems, causeless. He promised WMD’s as a reason to move in, and there are none. This is a bigger lie than “I did not have sex with that woman.”
-I don’t mind paying taxes. What the freak is the big deal? I did not need a tax refund check (and did not get one, as I didn’t earn enough) and I don’t think the $300 check my parents got did much to stimulate the economy. What, I go buy a new DVD player and wallah? It was a political move.
-And what the hell is Dick Cheney doing as the man behind the man. More big business…
These are the general things that I think dictate the smaller things. Argue with me over these, because I hate the arguments that take one sentence here and one sentence there and bitch about details, when the truth is, we’re most likely all unqualified to weigh in on what is REALLY going on.
(Meek–where does one find such information? That’s quite a spoonful to dish out with citing something!)
Right Side Up,
So your contention is that George Bush is not “intellectually qualified” to lead the country?
And you think that the 2000 electoral malfeasance occured at the above-board level of the Supreme Court, not the local level?
And you think that our “bombing” of Afghanistan (although our bombing was part of a full-scale invasion with other Western states) was morally wrong. And we should have done more police work beyond finding out that the Taliban was the training camp and protected hostel for the terrorists who attacked on 9-11?
And you think that the other arguments the administration presented along with WMD threat (material breach, human rights and–more tacitly–catalyzing regional transformation) don’t count at all because significant WMD wasn’t found?
Or perhaps that George Bush knew WMD wouldn’t be found, but disregarded the embarassment that lay ahead when David Kay would discover this and announce it to the world?
FYI–streaming C-Span video of major speech by Tony Blair on his decision-making behind Iraq and the future of multilateralism:
rtsp://video.c-span.org/archive/iraq/iraq030504_blair.rm
Compare it to Bush’s rationale.
Bush is a retard, Kerry sucks. I remember the good ol days with Clinton-Dole.
Ahh… To have two good candidates again.
Now we are stuck picking the lesser of two evils just like the last election.