Doing the Math on Bush's War

Doing the math on Bush’s war
by Edward Cone
7-18-04

Are you better off now than you were before the United States invaded Iraq?

Voters will be trying to answer that question until Election Day, with the keys to the White House riding on the result.

The old math asked if you were better off now than you were four years ago. The essence of that equation was economic, and it remains highly relevant to the Bush-Kerry contest. But this year there is a new math, too, which applies to security and the defining strategy of the Bush administration, the war in Iraq.

Iraq was a battle of choice in the larger war on terror that was thrust upon us. Even if it was a good idea, it was not the only thing we could have done at that point. Was it worth the cost, regardless of the flawed case Bush made for war, such as the weapons of mass destruction we have not found and the exaggerated links between Saddam and al-Qaida?

I approach the problem with the assumption that the invasion of Afghanistan after 9/11 was pretty much inevitable. Gore would have done it, Kerry would have done it. Bush deserves credit for his early success there, but he will be judged on what happened next.

The war has had two unqualified successes: the removal of Saddam, a longtime enemy and potential threat; and the demonstration of our extreme military prowess and willingness to use it. Together, these positive results must register a strong message with other governments that might sponsor terrorism.

Other outcomes are less certain. The idea that we can export democracy to the Muslim heartland remains unproved, with the stability of Iraq itself an open question. Establishing an Iraqi base of operations to replace our presence in Saudi Arabia may not be feasible in the long run, and the larger strategy of remaking the region country by country may never pan out. The extermination of foreign fighters in Iraq may be outweighed by the recruitment of new ones sparked by the U.S. occupation.

Among the clear, negative impacts on U.S. security of the war is our reduced capacity to work with other nations in a global fight against terror. And as pro-war writer Andrew Sullivan put it at his weblog, the discredited case for invasion made by Bush “has made future pre-emption based on intelligence close to impossible.” That ties our hands in the face of potential threats to come.

Another crucial measure of the war’s value is the opportunity cost: What else might we have been doing for the past two years if we had not been focused on Iraq? It was never a question of invading or Iraq or doing nothing at all, and much remains undone. Afghanistan is a mess, Osama is at large, nukes are proliferating, and our military is overextended, none of which makes us safer.

Less safe for sure were the hundreds of Americans who have died in the 14 months since major combat operations supposedly ended. Was their sacrifice worth it? Even if the war itself proves worthwhile, did they die in vain because of the way the occupation has been managed by the Bush administration? That’s another core issue raised by the experience in Iraq: the competence of the Bush team to fight this long, strange war, which will continue far beyond combat and reconstruction in Mesopotamia.

Such competence is a critical arbiter of U.S. security, and the “post-war” experience in Iraq has not been encouraging. The litany of mistakes made there is depressingly familiar (disbanding the army, underestimating Iraqi antipathy toward invaders, betting on the scoundrel Chalabi), as is the administration’s susceptibility to ideological solutions over pragmatic ones.

There is not yet a clear answer to the question of Bush’s war. Events continue to unfold, with the outcome very much in the balance, and any tally has to be weighed against a guess at how well John Kerry would have handled the same situation and how well he might handle the next one.

Bush spoke out strongly last week about the success of his Iraq gamble, in response to harsh criticism of his case for war in the Senate. One indication that he lacks some confidence in his own argument may be his recent reinvocation of “values” as a campaign theme, even as his vice president was in the news for dropping an f-bomb on that same Senate floor.

With the dodgy economic recovery making it hard to ask the old campaign question about relative prosperity, and no easy answers on the new campaign question about relative security, issues like gay marriage offer Bush a way to fire up his base. But for the rest of the country, the big equations are yet to be solved.

http://radio.weblogs.com/0107946/stories/2004/07/18/doingTheMathOnBushsWar.html

get a life…go lift some weights or something…

The amount of money this country spends on the military in general could substantially be reduced. Couple that with the ridiculous amount of money spent on the phony “war on drugs” and we could save alot of cash. Maybe even improve some standards of living. Just a thought.

There are reasons why Bush had to increase the defense budget. And the reason being is once again thanks to Bill CLinton. Bill CLinton goal was to cut funds to the military, and spend them on the social progrmas, for his domestic agenda. He opposed Ronald Reagan’s SDI porgram.

Lets also look at the defense budgets, through the CLinton yrs. The WHite House in 1993, slashed spending on new qweapons and equipment to roughly one third of the amt. spent in fiscal 1985." By 1994, Clinton’s budget, reduced defnse spending to $246 billion by fiscal 1997. And from fiscal years 1998 to 2002, Clinton asked for an additional $19 billion more for defense. But, according to the Heritage foundation, it is still inadequte to fund the defesnes of the USA. The new budget falls about 105 billion short of fully funding the forces necessary to defend Americas’ security and freedom.

So what does this all mean? Well, now the troops size had to be reduced. SHrink spending on combat readiness, or reduce the amount of $ spent to modernize our weapons. Before leaving office William Perry admitted that the size of our military, “Is about the minimum required to allow the US to be able to maintain its role as a global power.”

This from former defense policy analyst James Anderson: During the last few weeks of the 105th COngress, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, went before the Senate Armed Services Comm. on the steadily deteriorating state of the armed forces. And the Senators, and the Joint Chiefs, "took to task for starving the armed forces of the resources needed to carry out the unprecendented demands being placed on them, including the open -ended Bosnia
mission that devours approx. $2 billion in scarce dollars each yr. Under verbal fire from worried Senators, the chiefs agreed that their soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines, could NO longer be asked “to do more with less.”

In all, if the proposed Clinton defense cuts, are computed, they would total some $241 billion in cuts over 5 years."

Under Clinton the U.S. troops, were deployed 46X, defense spending had fallen 25%, while other spending had increased by 16%. Becasue of this, the US Troops were being kept overseas in back-to -back deployments. The US troops were forced to wear the UN insignia on their unifroms, vs. the US flag. Aircrafts were being stripped for spare parts to repair other aircraft. Because the morale was so low, the recruitment, numbers were way down. We had the “don’t ask , don’t tell poicy,” in the miltary.

Best quote to sum up Clinton and the military and our nations’ defenses during his 8 yeras as President, is what Bob Livingston said, in 1993, and was still true in 1999. " Clinton has turned on its head the old Teddy Roosevlet maxim to “speak softly and carry a big stick.” Instead Pres. CLinton speaks interminably while brandishing a toothpick."

So this was the state of our US military and defenses, Bush inherited, in Jan 2001. And we cannot blame Bush for any of this. In regards to our US defenses or intelligence. Which so many on the far left, keep telling us.
ANd the wrongs could not be made right, with a snap of the fingers. It would take lots of time. And when that tragic day 9/11/2001 occurred, we were then plunged into a War George Bush, had to fight. This War on Terror.

And for Iraq… Well, what I have to say is just go back, to what CLinton wa trying to do with Iraq. And I found this excellent letter that was written to Pres CLinton, from the New American Century. Written in Jan. 26, 1998…
And I must post …

…".We are writing you because we are convinced that current American policy toward Iraq is not succeeding, and that we may soon face a threat in the Middle East more serious than any we have known since the end of the Cold War. In your upcoming State of the Union Address, you have an opportunity to chart a clear and determined course for meeting this threat. We urge you to seize that opportunity, and to enunciate a new strategy that would secure the interests of the U.S. and our friends and allies around the world. That strategy should aim, above all, at the removal of Saddam Hussein?s regime from power. We stand ready to offer our full support in this difficult but necessary endeavor.

The policy of ?containment? of Saddam Hussein has been steadily eroding over the past several months. As recent events have demonstrated, we can no longer depend on our partners in the Gulf War coalition to continue to uphold the sanctions or to punish Saddam when he blocks or evades UN inspections. Our ability to ensure that Saddam Hussein is not producing weapons of mass destruction, therefore, has substantially diminished. Even if full inspections were eventually to resume, which now seems highly unlikely, experience has shown that it is difficult if not impossible to monitor Iraq?s chemical and biological weapons production. The lengthy period during which the inspectors will have been unable to enter many Iraqi facilities has made it even less likely that they will be able to uncover all of Saddam?s secrets. As a result, in the not-too-distant future we will be unable to determine with any reasonable level of confidence whether Iraq does or does not possess such weapons.

Such uncertainty will, by itself, have a seriously destabilizing effect on the entire Middle East. It hardly needs to be added that if Saddam does acquire the capability to deliver weapons of mass destruction, as he is almost certain to do if we continue along the present course, the safety of American troops in the region, of our friends and allies like Israel and the moderate Arab states, and a significant portion of the world?s supply of oil will all be put at hazard. As you have rightly declared, Mr. President, the security of the world in the first part of the 21st century will be determined largely by how we handle this threat.

Given the magnitude of the threat, the current policy, which depends for its success upon the steadfastness of our coalition partners and upon the cooperation of Saddam Hussein, is dangerously inadequate. The only acceptable strategy is one that eliminates the possibility that Iraq will be able to use or threaten to use weapons of mass destruction. In the near term, this means a willingness to undertake military action as diplomacy is clearly failing. In the long term, it means removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy.

We urge you to articulate this aim, and to turn your Administration’s attention to implementing a strategy for removing Saddam’s regime from power. This will require a full complement of diplomatic, political and military efforts. Although we are fully aware of the dangers and difficulties in implementing this policy, we believe the dangers of failing to do so are far greater. We believe the U.S. has the authority under existing UN resolutions to take the necessary steps, including military steps, to protect our vital interests in the Gulf. In any case, American policy cannot continue to be crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council.

We urge you to act decisively. If you act now to end the threat of weapons of mass destruction against the U.S. or its allies, you will be acting in the most fundamental national security interests of the country. If we accept a course of weakness and drift, we put our interests and our future at risk.

Joe

Lumpy:

I surprised at you. That article actually attempted to look at the question in a balanced manner.

There are a few positives it left out of course: projecting power in a way that helped cow some other regimes, such as Gaddafi’s; being in a position to pincer Iran from its eastern and western fronts should the need arise; numerous successes against terrorists based in part on intelligence gathered pursuant to the Iraqi campaign; and, while not in place yet, the installation of a stable, democratic ally in the area.

Also, as a nitpick, I think a proper judgment of the Iraqi situation needs to account for the threat everyone believed Saddam posed at the time we decided to go in, not just in light of the fact that we haven’t found stockpiles of WMD, as well as account for Saddam’s obvious intentions to re-start his WMD program, and his actions to do so.

Still, Lumpy, congrats on improving your reading material.

BB
Thanks, I got the link from one of your posts, and I looked around his site a little.

Funny to see other so-called “conservatives” offer a knee jerk reaction to this thread? Did they even read the article? I doubt it!

If I were to listen to PtrDr I should “stop reading and stop thinking”.

Wow what an article.

Would Gore have done something? I think he’s fishing. They didn’t do anything when the embassies were bombed in Saudi, Africa or when the terrorist attacked the USS Cole.

A few missiles don’t count.

One thing we have to realize we are responsible for our own security, other nations in all actuality could give two shits what happens here.

With that being said we should institute the draft just like they do in Isreal. 2 year contract everybody has to go once they graduate from high school.

I like the way people are so critical of what is going on but do nothing about it. Yeah our troops are over there and I bet they don’t whine as much as the people that haven’t done shit for our country.

I don’t agree that the draft is a good thing. There is a distinct value in our military being all-volunteer, and a major aspect of that value is that only people who WANT to be there end up there.

I would be terribly upset with this country if my son were drafted, sent to war, and killed. But if he volunteers, goes to war, and is killed – that’s a whole different story. I’d still be upset, but I’d be upset in general for losing my son, not upset at the country for making him go to war. I’m proud of a volunteer military. A drafted military is just slavery under a different banner.

I think Israel faces a different situation. They’re in the midst of a real conflict in which people get killed every day. In that circumstance, you simply do not get enough volunteers, and if it persists for long enough you have to institute a draft of some sort. Drafting everyone is the only fair way to do it.

[quote]Lumpy wrote:
BB
Thanks, I got the link from one of your posts, and I looked around his site a little.

Funny to see other so-called “conservatives” offer a knee jerk reaction to this thread? Did they even read the article? I doubt it!

If I were to listen to PtrDr I should “stop reading and stop thinking”.[/quote]

Lumpy:

I think this is the type of article that highlights what I would consider “good criticism” versus polemic. It poses questions and gives standards rather than levels charges and makes pronouncements.

No one wants voters and/or citizens to be blind followers of anybody’s ideas – well, maybe politicians do, but you know what I mean. It’s OK to question things – and, on the other hand, it’s OK to support things too. THe main thing is that it be done reasonably – this is the key to debate rather than shouting matches.

Darklock,

You never answered my question were you an officer or enlisted?

Don’t forget the draft has been around for a long time. This is something we can use to preserve our union.

Correct me if I am wrong you didn’t even get an honorable discharge. Did you?

USMC 91-95

Darklock,

Where are you?

Lumpy,

Why don’t you “do the math” on the great potential Sadam had to cause the deaths of innocent American citizens!

This article asks what else might we have been doing for the last two years, but gives no answer. We should do the math on keeping 2.5 millions barrels a day of Iraqi oil production off the market, during a time of war when cheap oil is very important to staving off inflation and keeping the economy strong. Restoring that oil flow was a good move not just for America but for the world. China’s economy is growing at a prodigious rate and is sucking up all the worlds raw materials. Just last year their automobile sales increased by %80. China’s new appetite for oil is going to cause the price at the pump here to go up. We should also consider how much animosity was created by 12 years of sanctions on Iraq. We finished a job we should have finished the first time. Iraq was a lot easier war than North Korea would have been.

Even if Clinton did reduce military spending we’d still have the greatest military in the world so what difference does it really make, unless you’ve got your nose in everyone else’s business and have an imperialistic foreign policy. Oh we do, uhumm…I guess that’s the reason why we need all this military spending.

The Heritage Foundation - which I used to donate money to - is checkered with and celebrates first rate crimminals of the Reagan Administration. It’s sheer propaganda.

The NAC is filled with the war-mongers who are littered throughout the current administration. Another propaganda machine for the neo-cons of the republican party.

I think a great way to save money and substatially reduce terrorism on the U.S. is to adopt a more non-interventionist policy and quit trying to take over the world. In fact alot of people believe this to, not just me. Why don’t we give it a try?

Zeppelin-
Greatest is such difficult word to use. Now I have no doubt that America’s military has the most nukes, the newest technology and a lot of pretty well trained recruits. It also takes the concept of Blitzkreig to a whole new level- we saw its use of air, mechanised and man power working together to deadly effect in Iraq just a year ago. The problem is the smart bombs aren’t that smart, the BBC questioned the Red Cross during April 2003 and was told around 100 casualties and hour were coming into hospital in Baghdad, but it was hard to say. By April 6th an independant group set up to moniter civilian deaths stated there had been a maximum of 1049, a minimum of 876. The war ended around May 1st, 3 weeks after that body count so who knows how many more people died then and have died since. The US military prides itself on not causing civilian casualties, hence the idea of smart bombs. I contend it failed in this respect. Something many armys have learnt over mans history is there is always more to war than killing the enemy. A good army follows it up. For instance, the Romans took most of Europe, and as soon as an area was captured they brought roads, clean water etc. ie they were rebuilding the conquored as soon as possible, why? Because they knew that occupation was a situation frought with instability. The British army also knew this and have tried with varying levels of success to ‘help’ countrys they invaded. The US army hasn’t shown the greatest ability to follow through, however. A good example is the current situation in Afganistan, the US army gave weapons to warlords who were disgruntled at the Taliban, they then went on to defeat the Taliban, aided by US air strikes. This system minimised US deaths and led to a quick victory, of course now Kabul is the only area actually controlled, the rest having been taken back by well armed war lords (and people wonder why Bin Laden never turned up). In Iraq the military is doing its best to follow through, for instance the oild fields were running within weeks of May 1st. The civilians, however, have been less lucky and still have fluctuating power, food and water supplies. Abusing prisoners has also not been the army’s finest hour. Now the thing is none of this suprises me (well the prisoner thing did) because America is in ‘imperial denial’ and the sooner the military realises theres more to war than bombing the hell out of things the greater they will be. As for the greatest army right now? I really don’t know, so many people have nukes it doesn’t even matter.

Sifu
We didn’t invade Iraq for their oil, just ask any Republican.

We did it because of WMDs (OOPS no scratch that)
We did it because Saddam was linked to Al Qadea (OOPS no scratch that)
We did it because Dubya CARES SO DEEPLY about bringing democracy to the Iraqi people, even though there are 30 other dictators we could have deposed instead.

Oil had nothing to do with it!!!

Actually, we invaded Iraq because Bush is a reptile-being from another planet out to cause chaos; then the reptile-beings can take over. Just joking – there’s a website call Ask Sollog where the guy actually says this.

What I wonder about is (1) Why doesn’t anyone go after Clinton? We spend twice as much in the Federal Budget on Education than on Defense, and Clinton cut us to the bone on D. No F’in wonder we were attacked! (2) Lumpy, you’ve got the top 3 posts on this forum. There ARE other things in life.

Lumpy,

Well tell me how are we currently taking advantage of all of the oil in Iraq?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Lumpy,
Well tell me how are we currently taking advantage of all of the oil in Iraq?[/quote]

By bringing DEMOCRACY to Iraq!

Don’t tell me you’ve forgotten the GOP Talking Points!

We’re teaching them how to bake apple pie!

Zeppelin795:

In Kerry’s last speech his statment was that he was going to increase military spending. In the demorcatic convention.