[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Why can’t we use the German form of educating, where education to students is free or costs very little? Germany’s students improve at twice the rate as Americans in terms of acedemics.
[/quote]
Source?[/quote]
Finland does not even have tuition.
lol. Wiki is not a source. I still read part of it, and wiki didn’t even source the parts you’re talking about, so if you actually have a source for what you’re claiming I’d like to see it. And, from what I read the trade schools are free but the actual universities are free because only the top students get in…that’s compared to 2/3rds of America that has gone to college.
When those capitalists’ decisions condemn Detroit to 40 years of disastrous decline, what kind of society relieves those capitalists of any responsibility to help rebuild that city?"
So he is advocating that all the people in the city get to decide on what moves a company makes? No thank you. He advocates no real applicable solutions just blames capitalism and evil auto makers. Start your own car manufacturing business then Detroit. No one was stopping you.
The day we give over business decisions to the mass public just because they will be affected by the decisions that company makes… Really?[/quote]
And your solution is to just let be? There are more and more worker-owned businesses and I’m off the thought that those who work in the factories ought to own them. Not a few shareholders and the BOD. The owners were slow to react to the competition and fuel crisis and these are the folks who have done a good job in your opinion?
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Why can’t we use the German form of educating, where education to students is free or costs very little? Germany’s students improve at twice the rate as Americans in terms of acedemics.
[/quote]
Source?[/quote]
Finland does not even have tuition.
lol. Wiki is not a source. I still read part of it, and wiki didn’t even source the parts you’re talking about, so if you actually have a source for what you’re claiming I’d like to see it. And, from what I read the trade schools are free but the actual universities are free because only the top students get in…that’s compared to 2/3rds of America that has gone to college.[/quote]
So what about Finland?
“Change the paradigm” is not a solution, just some vague idea you leeched from a “progressive doctor” website. Yes, I do think that being part of the change involves being involved with medicine or legislation. I get the feeling you don’t know how schools work. There’s these things called textbooks that require time to edit. Dynamic subjects–such as nutrition–are very difficult to write textbooks on, especially books that everyone agrees on. Updated knowledge of nutrition is available at seminars, which are these things that doctors are required to attend every year to keep their licenses. These seminars cost a lot of money so doctors typically choose ones that they can apply to their practices and result in increased profits–an investment of sorts. Doctors have never really been nutritional experts. Just because you think they should be doesn’t make it so. Once again, there are plenty of non-medical options out there.
When those capitalists’ decisions condemn Detroit to 40 years of disastrous decline, what kind of society relieves those capitalists of any responsibility to help rebuild that city?"
So he is advocating that all the people in the city get to decide on what moves a company makes? No thank you. He advocates no real applicable solutions just blames capitalism and evil auto makers. Start your own car manufacturing business then Detroit. No one was stopping you.
The day we give over business decisions to the mass public just because they will be affected by the decisions that company makes… Really?[/quote]
And your solution is to just let be? There are more and more worker-owned businesses and I’m off the thought that those who work in the factories ought to own them. Not a few shareholders and the BOD. The owners were slow to react to the competition and fuel crisis and these are the folks who have done a good job in your opinion?[/quote]
I never said they did a good job, but some do. I just want to know how you would go about taking these companies from the shareholders/ owners and letting the particular workers or people in an area it affects have it. Personally if I own a business and want to run it in the ground with bad decisions that is my prerogative as I own it and started it.
People make bad decisions. It happens. Do I think people who started a business and have experience in that arena are better capable at making good business decisions than your average worker? Yes. Do they always make the right decision? No.
Criticize them all you want. And they may have messed up, but you can’t hang all the blame on them. Not in the slightest. Oh and btw most of Detroit’s debt is owned to government job pensions. So in reality what happened is the auto industry left and without their high paying jobs and revenue the welfare state could no longer be funded on its back.
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
“Change the paradigm” is not a solution, just some vague idea you leeched from a “progressive doctor” website. Yes, I do think that being part of the change involves being involved with medicine or legislation. I get the feeling you don’t know how schools work. There’s these things called textbooks that require time to edit. Dynamic subjects–such as nutrition–are very difficult to write textbooks on, especially books that everyone agrees on. Updated knowledge of nutrition is available at seminars, which are these things that doctors are required to attend every year to keep their licenses. These seminars cost a lot of money so doctors typically choose ones that they can apply to their practices and result in increased profits–an investment of sorts. Doctors have never really been nutritional experts. Just because you think they should be doesn’t make it so. Once again, there are plenty of non-medical options out there.
What is it that you said you do for a living?[/quote]
Your reasons fail. A healthcare system that places profits above health is fundamentally flawed. And a paradigm change has to do with concentrating on things that are results oriented without regards to profit. So the pharmaceutical industry needs to take a backseat as nutrition should be front and center. Plenty of good books written about nutritional issues so to claim that they are dynamic and not everyone agrees is not an excuse for dismissal. Seminars attended for increased profits as a reason goes to show where there heart is. I thought doctors were supposed to help people not make decisions based on how much return they can get.
Changing the paradigm is the solution as our current system pales in comparison to other nations in terms of what we spend vs our results. If you want to defend and protect our current system that is your choice. I believe there is a better way.
And once again I don’t see how my vocation has anything to do with the points I’m making.
When those capitalists’ decisions condemn Detroit to 40 years of disastrous decline, what kind of society relieves those capitalists of any responsibility to help rebuild that city?"
So he is advocating that all the people in the city get to decide on what moves a company makes? No thank you. He advocates no real applicable solutions just blames capitalism and evil auto makers. Start your own car manufacturing business then Detroit. No one was stopping you.
The day we give over business decisions to the mass public just because they will be affected by the decisions that company makes… Really?[/quote]
And your solution is to just let be? There are more and more worker-owned businesses and I’m off the thought that those who work in the factories ought to own them. Not a few shareholders and the BOD. The owners were slow to react to the competition and fuel crisis and these are the folks who have done a good job in your opinion?[/quote]
I never said they did a good job, but some do. I just want to know how you would go about taking these companies from the shareholders/ owners and letting the particular workers or people in an area it affects have it. Personally if I own a business and want to run it in the ground with bad decisions that is my prerogative as I own it and started it.
People make bad decisions. It happens. Do I think people who started a business and have experience in that arena are better capable at making good business decisions than your average worker? Yes. Do they always make the right decision? No.
Criticize them all you want. And they may have messed up, but you can’t hang all the blame on them. Not in the slightest. Oh and btw most of Detroit’s debt is owned to government job pensions. So in reality what happened is the auto industry left and without their high paying jobs and revenue the welfare state could no longer be funded on its back. [/quote]
Here is an article on worker owned factories. With Arizmendi’s new approach, only four out of the several hundred MCC coop ventures have failed during the half century since Mondragon began. Not bad, far better than private ventures
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Why can’t we use the German form of educating, where education to students is free or costs very little? Germany’s students improve at twice the rate as Americans in terms of acedemics.
[/quote]
Source?[/quote]
Finland does not even have tuition.
lol. Wiki is not a source. I still read part of it, and wiki didn’t even source the parts you’re talking about, so if you actually have a source for what you’re claiming I’d like to see it. And, from what I read the trade schools are free but the actual universities are free because only the top students get in…that’s compared to 2/3rds of America that has gone to college.[/quote]
So what about Finland?
Well, I’ll point this out, all those articles talk about primary and secondary education…which is free and compulsory in the United States.
I have no problem with changing education in America, but I’ll point out something…your beloved Democrats were the architects behind NCLB that has pretty much decimated the education system in America.
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
“Change the paradigm” is not a solution, just some vague idea you leeched from a “progressive doctor” website. Yes, I do think that being part of the change involves being involved with medicine or legislation. I get the feeling you don’t know how schools work. There’s these things called textbooks that require time to edit. Dynamic subjects–such as nutrition–are very difficult to write textbooks on, especially books that everyone agrees on. Updated knowledge of nutrition is available at seminars, which are these things that doctors are required to attend every year to keep their licenses. These seminars cost a lot of money so doctors typically choose ones that they can apply to their practices and result in increased profits–an investment of sorts. Doctors have never really been nutritional experts. Just because you think they should be doesn’t make it so. Once again, there are plenty of non-medical options out there.
What is it that you said you do for a living?[/quote]
Your reasons fail. A healthcare system that places profits above health is fundamentally flawed. And a paradigm change has to do with concentrating on things that are results oriented without regards to profit. So the pharmaceutical industry needs to take a backseat as nutrition should be front and center. Plenty of good books written about nutritional issues so to claim that they are dynamic and not everyone agrees is not an excuse for dismissal. Seminars attended for increased profits as a reason goes to show where there heart is. I thought doctors were supposed to help people not make decisions based on how much return they can get.
Changing the paradigm is the solution as our current system pales in comparison to other nations in terms of what we spend vs our results. If you want to defend and protect our current system that is your choice. I believe there is a better way.
And once again I don’t see how my vocation has anything to do with the points I’m making.
[/quote]
Where is this money that funds all this free schooling and medicine supposed to come from? Also, feel free to keep ignoring the fact many–if not most–patients are not compliant with advice.
From what I’ve read, the number of doctors in the U.S. hasn’t changed in the last 20-30 years, despite the population growth. The way I see it, everyone is looking at this problem backwards. The issue isn’t demand-side, it’s supply-side. There just simply isn’t enough supply (doctors), and ignoring this while trying to make the service cheaper is only going to further slice the supply. In other words, Obamacare is the exact opposite of a solution – it’s only going to make the problem worse; And these early retirees are a damning proof of that.
[quote]RyuuKyuzo wrote:
From what I’ve read, the number of doctors in the U.S. hasn’t changed in the last 20-30 years, despite the population growth. The way I see it, everyone is looking at this problem backwards. The issue isn’t demand-side, it’s supply-side. There just simply isn’t enough supply (doctors), and ignoring this while trying to make the service cheaper is only going to further slice the supply. In other words, Obamacare is the exact opposite of a solution – it’s only going to make the problem worse; And these early retirees are a damning proof of that.[/quote]
Ryuu, you use logic and reason. Zep and Libtards are idealogs which can not be reasoned with. They just take and take and then turn to the Chinese for more and more money. They do not understand economics and how that works.
Where is this money that funds all this free schooling and medicine supposed to come from? Also, feel free to keep ignoring the fact many–if not most–patients are not compliant with advice.
What do you do for a living?
[/quote]
Zep believes that the rich need to pay their fair share, but he will never admit they are already paying their fair share. They want more and more till they kill the goose that lays the golden egg.
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
More on Finnish education.
You realize that the individual tax rate in Finland is 50% and much higher for businesses…where the fuck do you think all this money is coming from?[/quote]
Keep focusing on taxes and ignore the results! Good lemming you are…
Where is this money that funds all this free schooling and medicine supposed to come from? Also, feel free to keep ignoring the fact many–if not most–patients are not compliant with advice.
What do you do for a living?
[/quote]
Zep believes that the rich need to pay their fair share, but he will never admit they are already paying their fair share. They want more and more till they kill the goose that lays the golden egg.[/quote]
So what are the results of the Finnish education system? And what are the results of our country?
[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Why can’t we use the German form of educating, where education to students is free or costs very little? Germany’s students improve at twice the rate as Americans in terms of acedemics.
[/quote]
Source?[/quote]
Finland does not even have tuition.
lol. Wiki is not a source. I still read part of it, and wiki didn’t even source the parts you’re talking about, so if you actually have a source for what you’re claiming I’d like to see it. And, from what I read the trade schools are free but the actual universities are free because only the top students get in…that’s compared to 2/3rds of America that has gone to college.[/quote]
So what about Finland?
Well, I’ll point this out, all those articles talk about primary and secondary education…which is free and compulsory in the United States.
I have no problem with changing education in America, but I’ll point out something…your beloved Democrats were the architects behind NCLB that has pretty much decimated the education system in America. [/quote]
Never voted for a Democrat. Reps and Dems are both beyond corruption to straighten out, been saying this for over a decade. So all those fools who voted for Obama got a President who took about zero action on the things he talked about during the campaign. Anyone could see that coming from a mile away. Just look at his appointees.
Do you have a problem with higher taxation like FInland has as long as we get close to their results?
[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
“Change the paradigm” is not a solution, just some vague idea you leeched from a “progressive doctor” website. Yes, I do think that being part of the change involves being involved with medicine or legislation. I get the feeling you don’t know how schools work. There’s these things called textbooks that require time to edit. Dynamic subjects–such as nutrition–are very difficult to write textbooks on, especially books that everyone agrees on. Updated knowledge of nutrition is available at seminars, which are these things that doctors are required to attend every year to keep their licenses. These seminars cost a lot of money so doctors typically choose ones that they can apply to their practices and result in increased profits–an investment of sorts. Doctors have never really been nutritional experts. Just because you think they should be doesn’t make it so. Once again, there are plenty of non-medical options out there.
What is it that you said you do for a living?[/quote]
Your reasons fail. A healthcare system that places profits above health is fundamentally flawed. And a paradigm change has to do with concentrating on things that are results oriented without regards to profit. So the pharmaceutical industry needs to take a backseat as nutrition should be front and center. Plenty of good books written about nutritional issues so to claim that they are dynamic and not everyone agrees is not an excuse for dismissal. Seminars attended for increased profits as a reason goes to show where there heart is. I thought doctors were supposed to help people not make decisions based on how much return they can get.
Changing the paradigm is the solution as our current system pales in comparison to other nations in terms of what we spend vs our results. If you want to defend and protect our current system that is your choice. I believe there is a better way.
And once again I don’t see how my vocation has anything to do with the points I’m making.
[/quote]
Where is this money that funds all this free schooling and medicine supposed to come from? Also, feel free to keep ignoring the fact many–if not most–patients are not compliant with advice.
What do you do for a living?
[/quote]
Where does Finland come up with it? How about ending these immoral and illegal wars?