Doctor Prescribed Androgel

Training Over 35 Lifter
1

I realize some parts of my question have been addressed here before, but since this is pretty big thing to jump into, I thought it validated creating a new thread.

I am 24 years old, ~260lbs at 6’2 with mid 20%bf. I have competed in powerlifting, have my first strongman comp in 2 months, and also practice Jiu Jitsu.

My family has a history of hormone issues; my brother has been using androgel for a couple of years (he is now 23), as his hormone levels were completely out of whack. He gets ultrasounds of his heart semi-annually b/c of some complications he has had, hormone levels being a by-product of this (not sure if that puts how serious his issues is into perspective).

Anyway, I went to the doctor to get some blood tests done. The doctor is a friend of a friend who is very into what we (my friend and I) do ie strongman. The blood levels came back- most everything looks ok. My test levels were 442 and then he said % free=2% and 8 or 88% total free. Not really sure how those last 2 compare, but I know 442 is on the low range of normal (300-1100 or 1200). At 24 years old, this could only get worse from here- but the doc is willing to help.

My diet is a carb cycling approach, so my fats are up. I haven’t drank in a few months, don’t smoke, not stressed, fully hydrated (minus the fast), didn’t even jerk it before hand! So I would say conditions were pretty optimal, however, I continue to be lethargic, my BF levels never seem to come down despite diet manipulation, and my strength levels do not increase despite how serious my training is.

What is the best course of action? I am mostly concerned with any issues that could arise- I already have a moderate case of gyno from puberty, and I sweat a lot. Also, does anyone know how this would be handled in the military? If things work out, I may be headed that direction- will it be grounds for a DQ, or be an application issue in boot? Cold calling the recruiters didn’t really accomplish much.

EDIT: Also, as far as I know, I am just being prescribed androgel (no idea on dosage yet). I will be picking up the script and my blood level summary this week. Is there anything else I should ask about such as AIs?

2

Most people dont respond well to androgel. Self injecting depot testosterone 2x week is more effective for most (not talking about muscle building; talking about keeping levels stable and thus keeping everything else ‘right’).

AI and hCG is virtually a must. This whole thread belongs in the Over 35 forum

3

What are the complications with regards to your brothers heart? The military will accept you unless you have some kind of serious birth-defect regarding your heart, feet, hands, some thing… If you go on androgel they may keep you on it, they may elect not to enlist you…

4

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Most people dont respond well to androgel. Self injecting depot testosterone 2x week is more effective for most (not talking about muscle building; talking about keeping levels stable and thus keeping everything else ‘right’).

AI and hCG is virtually a must. This whole thread belongs in the Over 35 forum [/quote]

:frowning: But I’m only 24!

I am not sure if prescription test is an option- I would have to check. I have a feeling it would be one of those “let’s try this first” situations.

If I only have the option of androgel or nothing, androgel is the better option, right?

5

[quote]idowhatican wrote:
What are the complications with regards to your brothers heart? The military will accept you unless you have some kind of serious birth-defect regarding your heart, feet, hands, some thing… If you go on androgel they may keep you on it, they may elect not to enlist you…[/quote]

He had holes in it when he was born and spent the first year of his life in the hospital. It has led to lower hormone levels, severe asthma, possibly a stint in the future, etc. But the doctor checked for all the things that would be of concern for me (heart murmurs, etc).

I have already gone through all the military screenings at MEPS. I was PDQd for something else entirely that I am trying to get a work around for. I just want to make sure this would not be another thing to stop me and completely bar me once I get the other issue sorted out.

6

[quote]coolnatedawg wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Most people dont respond well to androgel. Self injecting depot testosterone 2x week is more effective for most (not talking about muscle building; talking about keeping levels stable and thus keeping everything else ‘right’).

AI and hCG is virtually a must. This whole thread belongs in the Over 35 forum [/quote]

:frowning: But I’m only 24!

I am not sure if prescription test is an option- I would have to check. I have a feeling it would be one of those “let’s try this first” situations.

If I only have the option of androgel or nothing, androgel is the better option, right?[/quote]

Androgel IS prescription testosterone. It will shut your natural T production down.

The only differences between androgel and depot testosterone is that one you rub on your skin and is less effective on average and the other you inject and works for everyone.

TRT is for LIFE. It’s not like you go on TRT for a few months and you get fixed. TRT is a treatment NOT a cure.

7

That last part is all kinds of cryptic!

I will have to seriously consider my options. On one hand, my levels are liveable, but on the other, higher T could increase my quality of life. But that will only come at a sacrifice. That’s a hard decision to make at 24…

This would probably be something I could be advised of in the Over 35 forum based on others’ experiences.

8

Can a mod move this to the over 35 forum? Thanks!

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Just wanted to bump this to see if I can get some other’s advice!

I made a call to MEPS today. It is something that would be on a case by case basis for DQ.

I think I have accepted the “for life” aspect of this.

10

You need this kind of testing:

which now includes TSH, now on sale for LEF members.

You might have some E2 issues that have reduced your T levels.

Any blows to the head in the time frame leading to the onset of this? Any loss of peripheral vision?

You will not be injecting hCG in a fox hole.

11

[quote]KSman wrote:
You need this kind of testing:

which now includes TSH, now on sale for LEF members.

You might have some E2 issues that have reduced your T levels.

Any blows to the head in the time frame leading to the onset of this? Any loss of peripheral vision?

You will not be injecting hCG in a fox hole.[/quote]

I’ve never had any head trauma. And I wouldn’t say anything leading up to this, as I think it has just been that way from the beginning, so maybe birth lol.

Like I said, I need to go pick up my actual results, but I believe it was just T and free T, but he said my endocrine levels looked fine.

How does this blood panel test you sent me even work? Who does the testing and where? Do I need to go to my doc and have blood drawn and then sent out, or what? I feel like my peripheral vision is fine.

What do you mean by that last part about hCG?

12

I’m going in tomorrow to pick up labs and prescript. Other than asking about E2 levels and what AI, what else should I ask about?

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Here is another opinion:

First off, a normal doctor will not prescribe you test, as your levels are considered very normal. Your sweating and gyno are symptoms of elevated estrogen. another symptom would be night sweats and having a hard time staying erect.

a very low dose of an anti estrogen drug may be enough to bring your test levels up. an example of this is something called arimidex/liquidex. Be carefull with this drug, as 1/4 mg every other day is a starting dose for someone beginning testosterone. When the estrogen goes too low, you won’t be able to have a hard on to save your life.

I personally would do everything I could to delay starting testosterone until 30. You are still not done with the finishing touches of growing.

I started testosterone because my dick wasn’t working, along with high blood pressure, diabetes, and gout.

I am putting on muscle and looking leaner, nothing too dramatic. I don’t mind the needles now, but someone that has been on it a long time says he gets tired of sticking himself.

14

I have never heard of these being the symptoms of elevated estrogen levels. I have definitely experienced some of these issues to some degree (i thought losing the stiffy was because ofthe condom; jumping up a size did help ;))

I have read about 15 pages of the E2 sticky on this forum, and was wondering about Adex. I had seen that a few people were recommneded to go that route before full on HRT- I think this is the point KSman was trying to make.

I would definitely like to create T normally and not require TRT. What would you recommend as the next step. I will say, if there is any doctor I would want to have, it is this one. He volunteered to put me on something to bring my levels up, but I worry he is only looking at T and nothing else. If I get my estradiol numbers, and he is willing to work to get them down first, should I see about something like adex? If I can’t get his help but have te numbers, should I just get some research chem and work with that?

When I go in tomorrow, if my E2 levels aren’t given, I will ask if I can have those done.

15

Called the doc to make sure I could get tests done or see if E2 was listed on my test (it wasn’t).

He said I could come drop by and get some blood drawn to run today. I will have him look up estrogen. What other things should I look for?

I know lef.org has a list of things they test for, but it sounded like that might start costing me money. What tests should I have done that won’t cost me any additional money?

LEF tests:
* Chemistry Panel (Metabolic panel with lipids)
* Complete Blood Count (CBC)
* Free Testosterone
* Total Testosterone
* DHEA - Sulfate
* Prostate-Specific Antigen (PSA)
* Estradiol
* Homocysteine
* C-reactive protein (High sensitivity)
* TSH (Thyroid Stimulating Hormone)

For reference, when I was last in there I had him test for: anything giving signs of diabetes, thyroid issues, test, and blood sugars, so I don’t know what was covered already…

16

I had Quest Diagnostics take a look at my E2 levels. They responded with

Total Serum Estrogen: 122pg/mL

Can anything be gathered from that in regards to estradiol? I asked the doc why they didn’t get the E2 and E3 levels I had requested- he is going to ask them what the deal is.

Overview:
Total T: 442
Free T: 88
Free T %: 2%
Total Serum E: 122

Any ideas here?

EDIT: After reading some of KSMan’s post, E2 would be the more helpful one, but a comment was made guys reducing serum estrogen. It was said that reducing it to about 50% of what it is, still leaving me in the range (40-115pg/mL) would be a good place to start. Should I pursue this?

17

The estradiol, known as E2, is the test you want. It sounds like you have high estrodial from your lab, but I am confused by the reference range. It doesn’t take much of an anti estrogen drug to lower your estrogen, so take it a little slow. Since it sounds like you have some gyno, having the doctor treat you for that may be enough to bring the E2 down.

If you go on testosterone with an already elevated estrogen, you are just asking for some double D’s and limp dick. What I mean by this is your already elevated estrogen will be increased with the extra testosterone. Men have to have some E2, and they get it by a chemical conversion of Testosterone in the body.

Something that also might help is getting rid of all your plastic bottles that you drink out of, and stop using plastics as much as possible, as there is a small chance you are getting estrogens from plastics.

Lavender is also known as something to avoid, but realize these are probably not going to change your situation, but if you work in a plastics shop or something toxic, this might be something to look at.

18

For ranges of the tests that were done:
http://www.nicholsinstitute.com/TestDetail.aspx?TestID=857

I had specifically asked for estradiol tests. They seemed to have marked it incorrectly. Doc said he would look into it, but for now, all I have to go off of is Total Serum E. (you can find the test that I need by browsing that link there, I guess they just put down the wrong test code)

You say having the doctor treat me for gyno would bring the E2 down? Gyno surgery = $8-10k in my area, arimidex = $30-40 on some online places (although my go-to place is sold out, recommendations?)

I have no intention of using any T boosters yet until E is under control. I would rather goof with something that I can come off of than go on TRT for life w/o being ready.

I use Glade tupperware for my meals. I have heard about the xynoestrogens, but I can’t imagine they are the root cause here. I can look into other means though. I was going to make a lavender based masturbation joke, but I decided against it :).

What I need to know is: should I try arimidex now knowing my current high E levels, or should I go and get the proper estradiol test before making this decision? And if I do jump on it, is a dose of 1mg/week - 1.5mg/week a good starting point with the intent of manipulating it later to hone in?

I realize I have dealt with this for a good portion of my life, but dragging this out feels like eternity! haha

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Oh, and can anyone recommend a good place to purchase RESEARCH arimidex (PM if needed)? The 2 places I know of have sold out/removed from their website.

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Ge the proper testing. Low estrogen feels really really terrible.