[quote]Dr. Stig wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
For the record I don’t consider the UK when I say Europe.
You sound like a Frenchman.
[/quote]
How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
-Nobody knows, it’s never been tried-
Trainer, you are wasting your time.
[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Bringing them home would not support the troops. It would make them have to be sent to that region again in a few years, except that time around they will be armed with nuclear weapons and be more poised to kill off every American in this country.
[/quote]
This is your speculation. Iraq had no nukes, and they certainly aren’t going to be making them now. Although, I believe that the factions that are against us there would do anyting in their power to get them to use against us now.
Bringing them home is supporting the troops to some, and everyone has a right to say what they think supporting the troops means.
Don’t be a flaming retard who can’t talk with any amount of dignity, don’t start foreign wars based on untruths and lies, and don’t enact fascist powers of observance on your own people.
If I did all that, I’d expect some criticism.
[quote]
To Orion. It is american to have the right to complain and speak your mind. It is not American to go to other nations infront of their media and speak out against our nation.[/quote]
No, there’s no definition of being American, and you certainly don’t make the rules.
If I was in a position of power right now, I would consider it a grievous insult to the American people to not be speaking out constantly against the American ‘President’, whom I consider to be a crazes, dangerous religious zealot. They need to talk to whomever is listening in order to get the opposite point of view out, as opposed to Bush’s ridiculous “briefings” and FOXNEWS round the clock coverage of nothing.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Now I understand…you are a German socialist. Your posts make sense now. You have a lot of balls coming here and talking about war and government leaders and so on. Mind your business. Your country already capitulated. For once, Germany isn’t the source of a world war. I guess you feel superior now.
Bombing military targts = sawing off heads. I got it.
[/quote]
Don’t get too mad at the libs here. They think somehow evil can be appeased. When someone like you bleeds for their erroneous idea, they then blame you for even trying to fight the terrorists.
Wait, now I’m getting mad!!!
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Dr. Stig wrote:
TrainerinDC wrote:
For the record I don’t consider the UK when I say Europe.
You sound like a Frenchman.
How many Frenchmen does it take to defend Paris?
-Nobody knows, it’s never been tried-[/quote]
Haha, you know when Chuck Norris’ Delta Force was aired for the first time on French TV, they surrendered just to be on the safe side.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
vroom wrote:
It’s a well-funded, strategically planned personal attack on the President and all things conservative. I can not let that go uncontested. You seem like a reasonable guy. I like your style.
Stick around, I seem to grate on people after a while… but I promise to try to leave any potential animosity in the political arena! 
Anyway, I think you have blinders on for one side. Are you trying to tell me that swift-boating (which is now a verb) wasn’t a well funded strategically planned personal attack?
Look, unfortunately, politics is played pretty dirty in the states. This is true of BOTH sides. You are going to have to try to recognize it on both sides of the political spectrum or nobody will take you seriously… exept Jerffy, and if he is your only ally, you’ve already lost.
Swift-boat was crap. Kerry is a phony and he knows it, but the swift-boat thing was stupid. Putting yourself in for a medal is really bad form in the military. I do try to see both sides and sometimes both suck really bad. However, I am conservative Christian by nature. I know what I believe. I do lots of research and read lots of books (you should try General Tommy Franks’ book “American Soldier” for an inside look at the war).
One thing I never saw while any Democrat was in office were hords of Republicans protesting, shouting-down public speakers, disrupting peaceable assemblies, and displaying outright hatred and vileness towards the President. No President is perfect and he can NEVER make everyone happy.
It’s the outright disrespect that bothers me most. How can we expect a Democracy (Republic actually) to flourish in the Middle East when we can’t even get it right here? Shouldn’t we be the example? Where’s the civility? The open debate and sharing of ideas? It has totally turned into you vs. me on EVERY issue. “The sky is blue…no, it’s baby blue…no, it’s blue and you’re stupid…well, you’re more stupid and I’m shocked and offended at your statements…”
You are right, politics is nasty and I think a lot of really good people have been run off or fear to even try public service for fear of public embarassment. My dream is for some day, the Presidential candidates make a gentlemans agreement NOT to run negative ads or criticize each others performance. Whouldn’t that be cool if the candidates just stuck to the issues and told us their plans?
[/quote]
One of the older guys at my church was a Master Chief (Navy) and a Swifty. He could never say, ‘Kerry’ — he always said, “That son-of-a-bitch…”. He honestly couldn’t say Kerry! It was hilarious!
[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
Okay. Now I see this for what it is. In every conflict, the democrats side with the enemy. You are no different. You side with the enemy and against your own people.
It is not our fault that we used the tools available to make a profitable, sucessful, free, free-thinking society and the “oppressed” did not. They were around long before us, on the same planet with the same rules, they simply did not achieve what we did. That is not our fault. They should have used the energy in their “agression and anger” to improve their own society. They have all the opportunity, and the resources of the oil and the money it pays, they had every opportunity to create a better world for themselves. They chose not to.
As far as creating new terrorists, that will happen. We have no control over that, we can choose to let them kill us, or kill them and create new terrorists. I pick Americans over terrorists.
It is not our responsiblity to supervise the world. We sell weapons to the entire world, the rest require no supervision.
As far as the oil goes, if the need for oil was to dissipate, they would all be broke and starving. The oil is the main product of all those nations. Without an oil demand, they would go bankrupt. Bankruptcy would create a lot more terrorists than bombs.
Finally, the rich are exploiting the poor over there anyway. The rich are our enemy. They make the poor strap up with bombs and blow themselves up. They are denied education, denied the right to think for themselves. By winning the war on terrorism, we will be empowering the people of the Middle East, giving them choices other than poverty or suicide bombs.
[/quote]
Continuing to post intelligent common sense like this will surely draw the wrath of those who have none. Such as…
Harris, keep attacking the guy for posts like the above. It is HILARIOUS! He’s making you look like a jackass!!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Finally, the rich are exploiting the poor over there anyway. The rich are our enemy. They make the poor strap up with bombs and blow themselves up. They are denied education, denied the right to think for themselves. By winning the war on terrorism, we will be empowering the people of the Middle East, giving them choices other than poverty or suicide bombs.
Continuing to post intelligent common sense like this will surely draw the wrath of those who have none. Such as…
Harris, keep attacking the guy for posts like the above. It is HILARIOUS! He’s making you look like a jackass!!
[/quote]
Unfortunately, the last paragraph is not true.
The people that flew the planes into the towers were rich by their countries standards and very educated by allmost any standard.
There was no lack of education and during their years in England, Germany or the US they had all the possibility to think for themselves they could possibly want.
No, they died, because their holy book said they would go to an al-fresco brothel with beautiful, never-aging boys and girls and that they could pick a few dozend friends to come with them.
They were deeply religious people.
[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
harris447 wrote:
How is allowing WHO into our country supporting America?
Here’s the bottom line, numbnuts: I would support the troops by bringing them home. I would have supported the troops by not starting a war of choice in the first place.
Belittling the president? He does just fine at that by himself. He’s thoroughly incompetent and dangerous.
The democrats support the immigration laws that allow the middle easterns in, and support the programs that feed, clothe and medicate them while they are here.
Bringing them home would not support the troops. It would make them have to be sent to that region again in a few years, except that time around they will be armed with nuclear weapons and be more poised to kill off every American in this country.
The president can screw his own image over as much as he see’s fit. But when public figures get on tv, or go to other nations, and run their mouths about our internal stuff, that is wrong. How would you feel if it was done to you?
To Orion. It is american to have the right to complain and speak your mind. It is not American to go to other nations infront of their media and speak out against our nation.[/quote]
Here’s why I call you numbnuts, and will continue to do so: you are not a serious person. You blame problems on people that have not caused them.
The democrats support letting Middle Easterners in? What a ludicrous, vague statement.
Who has been in control of all three branches of the Federal Government and a majority of the gubernatorial positions for the past 6 years? Who has done nothing about immigration until right before an election as a distraction from the hideous job they have been doing every where else?
Right…democrats.
As for your idiotic position on keeping silent when your government runs amok, well…it’s just that: idiotic.
The first amendment is not there for speech you like; it’s for speech you hate.
How dare you say what is American and what is not? I thought only the Constitution (which you are apparently not a huge fan of) had that power.
Mentally unfit, forced to fight
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2006/05/16/mentally_unfit_forced_to_fight.html
Seems that their leadership is really taking “good care” of the troops. Great support. 
Makkun
Supporting the troops by no means involves blindly supporting the President. It is almost uniquely American to heap criticism upon the government and have no fear of retaliation. That is a freedom that certainly isn’t enjoyed in the Middle East, except for Isreal and Iraq.
Protest until your lips fall off, let the government know you aren’t happy. Make banners and print signs and have love-ins and sit-ins and all kinds of free speech fun.
But first realize this. We already lost one war because our enemy was able to change the political will of the American people while losing the tactical and operational battle.
Ho Chi Min’s conduct of the Vietnam war is almost a text book for insurgents in Iraq and transnational terrorists like Al Qaida. He convinced the American people that Vietnam wasn’t worth fighting, and that South Vietnam wasn’t worth defending. A small of influential group of Americans even believed that the Viet Cong were freedom fighters and uncle Ho was a Vietnamese version of George Washington.
Of course, once South Vietnam fell, the goodness of the government of North Vietnam was revealed as a brutal communist regime.
That is the type of battle we are fighting now. Information is a weapon as effective as the military. We are fighting a type of warfare that we did not suceed in before.
You can see the success our enemies are having by the posts from the T-Nation readers from outside the U.S. They are all almost unanimously anti-Bush, anti war on terror.
If you oppose the war, if you oppose the president, it doesn’t make you less of an American.
If you can’t make a reasonable and logical statement for why you are opposed, then perhaps you haven’t done enough research or read enough history. Make the decision carefully and make it on your own terms, don’t make a decision based on what the washington post, the ABC News, Orion, Headhunter, Harris, or Trainer in D.C. say. (I used these posters as an example of diverse views, not as an attack on any particular person).
[quote]Rockscar wrote:
I support our Troops, our President and the overall Mission.
Wow… I really suck![/quote]
Only if you think that everyone should just shut up and see it the same way…
I don’t want us all to see it the same way. Then we would have nothing to discuss.
I am a very serious person. I have my ideals, and will defend them to death. I will also defend to death everyone else right to say whatever they wish, if I agree or not.
The Vietnam analogy was 100% correct. This will turn into another Vietnam. The way I see badmouthing the leadership in a time of war equates to a mutiny on a boat. You may disagree with the captian, but do it in private. There is no reason to do it for all the other shipmates, or especially the enemy to hear. It will lower everyones morale.
As far as stopping future attacks, this is not speculation. Bin Laden and Al-Zarkawi (spelling?) have promised attacks. We would be foolish not to take them at their word. And I would be outraged to have had the opportunity to save american lives, any lives, and have not done it by being caught up in bickering and infighting.
Harris, I have the utmost respect for you. “Even if you’re wrong” =D
As far as the frenchman jokes, I got two.
What did the french say when Hitler marched into paris?
“Table for 10,000 miseur?”
“I would rather have a german division in front of me than a French division behind me.”
General George Patton
[quote]harris447 wrote:
You’re kind of slow.
What people mean is that they hope the young American men and women complete their missions safely.
I hope not one more American dies in this conflict.
YET…I think the Administration should be put in the dock at the Hague for starting it.
Can you wrap your mind around that one?[/quote]
I’m late to this party…but you’re an ass.
I know exactly what the OP means. I’ve been saying the same thing myself since I served. How are you supporting the troops but NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. “Be safe but don’t kill any insurgents!” Ok, whatever. Just call us all baby killers and get it over with. Saying you support us but going out and protesting DOES NOT help our moral. I can tell you from experience that when I was in Iraq and I saw protests back home and heard the whole “I support the troops” thing I was DISGUSTED. Fuck, I’m pretty disgusted right now with you talking shit to a soldier who has an issue with your fucking double speak. WE’RE the troops. I think WE should be able to call the bullshit card on our “supporters” if we see fit.
DD
[quote]Devil0351Dog wrote:
I’m late to this party…but you’re an ass.
I know exactly what the OP means. I’ve been saying the same thing myself since I served. How are you supporting the troops but NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. “Be safe but don’t kill any insurgents!” Ok, whatever. Just call us all baby killers and get it over with. Saying you support us but going out and protesting DOES NOT help our moral. I can tell you from experience that when I was in Iraq and I saw protests back home and heard the whole “I support the troops” thing I was DISGUSTED. Fuck, I’m pretty disgusted right now with you talking shit to a soldier who has an issue with your fucking double speak. WE’RE the troops. I think WE should be able to call the bullshit card on our “supporters” if we see fit.
DD
[/quote]
I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
This is a version of the oath you took, isn?t it?
The first amendment allready was a part of the US constitution when you joined the Army, wasn?t it?
[quote]orion wrote:
Devil0351Dog wrote:
I’m late to this party…but you’re an ass.
I know exactly what the OP means. I’ve been saying the same thing myself since I served. How are you supporting the troops but NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. “Be safe but don’t kill any insurgents!” Ok, whatever. Just call us all baby killers and get it over with. Saying you support us but going out and protesting DOES NOT help our moral. I can tell you from experience that when I was in Iraq and I saw protests back home and heard the whole “I support the troops” thing I was DISGUSTED. Fuck, I’m pretty disgusted right now with you talking shit to a soldier who has an issue with your fucking double speak. WE’RE the troops. I think WE should be able to call the bullshit card on our “supporters” if we see fit.
DD
I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
This is a version of the oath you took, isn?t it?
The first amendment allready was a part of the US constitution when you joined the Army, wasn?t it?[/quote]
This is why I usually stay out of this forum…To clarify:
A. I did not join the ARMY. I joined the MARINES. Yes. It IS a big deal.
B. Protest all you want. I support your right to do that as a US citizen. Just don’t protest what I’m doing AND tell me you support me at the same time. That’s bullshit and you know it. I’d have more respect for you if you didn’t try to kiss my ass and just came right out and told me you don’t like me or my job or my Commander in Chief. At least we could “agree to disagree”.
C. So I guess what I’m trying to say is “Pick a fucking side.”
D. If you think your protests are helping troop moral, you are seriously wrong.
E. If you think I appreciate you calling for an immediate pullout before the job is completly finished, you are seriously wrong. The best way to honor our fallen is to finish the job that they died for.
DD
[quote]Devil0351Dog wrote:
orion wrote:
Devil0351Dog wrote:
I’m late to this party…but you’re an ass.
I know exactly what the OP means. I’ve been saying the same thing myself since I served. How are you supporting the troops but NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. “Be safe but don’t kill any insurgents!” Ok, whatever. Just call us all baby killers and get it over with. Saying you support us but going out and protesting DOES NOT help our moral. I can tell you from experience that when I was in Iraq and I saw protests back home and heard the whole “I support the troops” thing I was DISGUSTED. Fuck, I’m pretty disgusted right now with you talking shit to a soldier who has an issue with your fucking double speak. WE’RE the troops. I think WE should be able to call the bullshit card on our “supporters” if we see fit.
DD
I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.
This is a version of the oath you took, isn?t it?
The first amendment allready was a part of the US constitution when you joined the Army, wasn?t it?
This is why I usually stay out of this forum…To clarify:
A. I did not join the ARMY. I joined the MARINES. Yes. It IS a big deal.
B. Protest all you want. I support your right to do that as a US citizen. Just don’t protest what I’m doing AND tell me you support me at the same time. That’s bullshit and you know it. I’d have more respect for you if you didn’t try to kiss my ass and just came right out and told me you don’t like me or my job or my Commander in Chief. At least we could “agree to disagree”.
C. So I guess what I’m trying to say is “Pick a fucking side.”
D. If you think your protests are helping troop moral, you are seriously wrong.
E. If you think I appreciate you calling for an immediate pullout before the job is completly finished, you are seriously wrong. The best way to honor our fallen is to finish the job that they died for.
DD[/quote]
You make us all proud marine. Semper Fi and god bless.
[quote]Devil0351Dog wrote:
harris447 wrote:
You’re kind of slow.
What people mean is that they hope the young American men and women complete their missions safely.
I hope not one more American dies in this conflict.
YET…I think the Administration should be put in the dock at the Hague for starting it.
Can you wrap your mind around that one?
I’m late to this party…but you’re an ass.
I know exactly what the OP means. I’ve been saying the same thing myself since I served. How are you supporting the troops but NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING. “Be safe but don’t kill any insurgents!” Ok, whatever. Just call us all baby killers and get it over with. Saying you support us but going out and protesting DOES NOT help our moral. I can tell you from experience that when I was in Iraq and I saw protests back home and heard the whole “I support the troops” thing I was DISGUSTED. Fuck, I’m pretty disgusted right now with you talking shit to a soldier who has an issue with your fucking double speak. WE’RE the troops. I think WE should be able to call the bullshit card on our “supporters” if we see fit.
DD
[/quote]
Call bullshit on me all you want. I’ll state again EXACTLY what I mean, because you and your little buddy from DC seem to be a bit thick.
“I support the troops” means I hope they come home safe. All of them. You, too.
How can I say that and say that what you’re doing is wrong? Easy: you guys do what you’re told. And you have been told the wrong thing to do.
You were sent to the wrong country at the wrong time for the wrong reasons.
Is that your fault? No, the fault lies with the criminals in charge of this country.
You’re disgusted with me talking shit to a soldier? Guess what: who gives a shit? That’s what the first amendment’s for. You’re not automatically right because you’re sleeping in a tent.
Here’s an analogy: if my brother was a drug addict, I would be supportive of him. I would hope he comes home every night. But I wouldn’t think what he was doing was right.
Was that a little clearer?
Comparing a druggie to a Marine fighting (and exterminating) the scum of the earth. PLEASE keep it up Harris, I’m getting my ab workout in!!
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Comparing a druggie to a Marine fighting (and exterminating) the scum of the earth. PLEASE keep it up Harris, I’m getting my ab workout in!![/quote]
You vomit if something is too complex for you?
Or is it the arrogant laugh of the adolescent know-it-all that still sees everything in black and white…
Don?t worry, sooner or later the hormones kick in and the world punishes you as long and as hard as it takes to make you a more mature, if not better, person.