This applies to me, not a power lifter and traditional squat/deads are problematic due to long lasting back injury from 20 years ago.
However, I’m also a home gym lifter without access to fancy machines and special equipment.
I have a good variety of options, but my dumbbells max out at 50lbs so long term progressive overload is limited there.
For long by term progressive overload in my situation, and without spending even more money, it requires some creativity to get around just bench pressing, squats, deadlifts.
Certain landmine variations and attachments are great alternatives though (Viking press, hack squat, straddle lift) and I also have a single adjustable cable stack from Titan.
So if hypertrophy is the goal then what are the guidelines to consider when choosing primary movements? You have already stated that deadlifts and squats can/should be discarded because of unnecessary lower back fatigue that causes inroads into recovery. You have also said that the barbell bench press is a poor chest builder and should be discarded as well.
Should the replacement movements simply be compound lifts that allow for progressive overload, hit the target muscle, and don’t make serious inroads into recovery? I’m assuming that you couldn’t omit all pressing and simply do pec flyes and tricep pushdowns. Compound movements must still be the bedrock of the program supplemented by isolation exercises, correct?
No, they can be discarded if they don’t fit your structure to stimulate certain tissue.
Guys with long legs and poor ankle mobility for example, aren’t going to get a lot of quad stimulation with squats. Even if the heel is elevated it might not be a good choice.
Deadlifts are NOT a back movement. Period. They are a more dominant glute, hamstring, and erector movement. That’s what’s doing the brunt of the work, and at the same time, deads are systemically taxing like maybe no other movement. So why would I choose a movement that does a shit job at building the back, and is an “ok” glute and hamstring builder, that fatigues me a lot when I choose other movements that build those areas better without the need for more recovery?
You still need progressive overload in order to facilitate growth. But there’s nothing special about those movements that does that better than say…hacks, leg presses, RDL’s, glute thrusts, dumbbell bench and incline, etc so forth and so on.
Hell, when I was with Meadows we talked about how basically the biggest guys in bodybuilding do mostly MACHINE work.
It’s just been drilled into people’s heads that you MUST do certain lifts to grow, and it’s simply not true.
Movements that have a high degree of potential for progressive overload, in conjunction with fitting your structure and that you can execute with good mechanics are the ones you should choose. That should settle that.
have you tried using prime solo wedges for elevating toes with romanian deads and hip thrusts?
for bodybuilding purposes do you agree with poliquin that barbell rows arent great for upper back development compared to machine rows, tbar rows and pronated and neutral grip one arm rows?
That’s the point. I didn’t make them a priority until I decided I wanted to compete in powerlifting. At that point I’d already hit over 250 pounds totally natty.
For probably the first 10 years of my lifting my main lifts were the ones I talked about in the 8-12-8 article.
Incline db press -
Lat Pulldowns -
Barbell Rows -
Overhead Press -
Leg Presses -
Stiff Legged Deadlifts -
I did BODYBUILDING. I got big on THAT. Not doing squat, bench, deadlift.
Poliquin on Question of Strength ### The Barbell Row: Final Word
Q: You’ve kinda poo-poo’ed the value of the barbell row in the past. Why? Isn’t it the best mass builder for the back?
A: One problem with the barbell row is that it’s really hard for people to just use the lats and elbow flexors. They always unconsciously start to drive with the quads and use their glutes and lower back.
The second thing is that the bar either hits your gut or your chest, which restricts your range of motion. The better way to do it is to just use the one-arm dumbbell row.
This also allows you to send the elbow up in different pathways. One month you can send it straight up, one month you can pretend you’re elbowing somebody in the face. This will allow you to recruit different portions of the scapular retractors. The barbell isn’t a shit exercise, but the dumbbell row is a better alternative.
By the way, the only guy I’ve seen do barbell rows really well is Ronnie Coleman… and he used five plates per side. I’ve also watched him do sixteen plates on the T-bar row, and he did them very well.
Sure, the T-bar row is a short-rage movement, but it has a load, and it will build the back. But not everybody is as disciplined as Ronnie Coleman to do them properly.
People just want to hear that a certain exercise is the only way to go. It’s just not true. The barbell row is fine, but after a few weeks, do something else!
What’s weird is that Ronnie’s form on t-bars and barbell rows are complete shit.
Charles was awesome but not infallible. He’s wrong here. And the barbell row isn’t even a “lat” exercise. It’s an upperback movement primarily. Arm path dictates that it is. The lats don’t function to bring the arms behind the body.
I will say though ive gotten way better results with smity machine barbell rows than regular barbell rows. Smith machine really allows for a great contraction.
Squat
Deficit Stiff-Legged Deadlift
Supinated-Grip Pulldown
T-Bar and Barbell Row
Incline Dumbbell Press Bench Press
Overhead Press (Dumbbell and Barbell) (which you’ve also mentioned recently you believe is not the greatest delt builder)
I’m not trying to argue - I recognize your superiority here and trust your opinions more than my own. But 2 (and 3, if we include a variation of the 3rd) of the big 3 were included when you described what built your foundation.
I did bench and squat but they weren’t constant mainstays. And yes you’re just trying to argue. I have to draw upon memory from like 20-25 years ago.
I didn’t do a ton of squatting and benching. I did them, and it was included fairly regularly, but the movements that pretty much never ever left my programs were the ones I listed.
And no I don’t believe overhead pressing is a great shoulder builder either. And I’ve stated that multiple times. I did them, but as people gain more knowledge their opinions change.
Look dude, you want to believe what you want to believe. It’s called cognitive bias.
Hey Paul, curious on your thoughts on behind the neck presses in that regard. You were one of the few big dudes I knew that was still doing them a while back, and I just started including them in my programming for the sake of variety. They have any place in programming for size in your opinion?
Great assistance exercise to bench and good tricep builder. For shoulders and overhead pressing I find that one arm braced overhead press to be superior.
No I like those! From a integrated standpoint those are really good.
Overhead pressing, from a muscle growth standpoint, is ok. It’s really good to use as an integrated movements where you have all the synergistic working together to create good functionality.
I did lots of PBN as a rotational part of my strength work. Because I found that one press over and over again would beat my joints up. That’s why I rotated those movements (bench, incline, PBN).
But if you were to ask me what movements to settle in to grow the delts then the press would still be a part of it, but only as an integrated movement.
Various laterals and Y-raises are honestly the best bang for buck when it comes to delts. And it’s also the one muscle I do believe probably responds best to a bit more volume.
I didn’t know this, man. I read what you wrote, and I brought it back up when it came up. You said you squatted, I didn’t know it wasn’t often, and that other movements were far more common and worked better for you. I’m really not trying to argue, I was curious because you said you benched, and left it at that. Obviously now I have a better idea of what you meant.
Yeah, we all do, and I will. I agree with you - I’m not very big or strong, but I believe dips have gotten my chest bigger than benching. I don’t get very much from benching besides a stronger bench. That’s me personally. I think squatting has made my quads bigger for sure, but at some point I will find a limit to that. I have never considered deadlifting a back movement, because I find it tires my hams/glutes out faster than my overall back, and my lats have NEVER felt sore or tired afterwards. I think in the end, I agree with you.
My only question really was how does one know what to do? If a beginner is told to deadlift for a big back (lats) and doesn’t do it, what should he do instead? Chinups and certain rows are not “optimal” either, so how would he go about finding works best? I assumed it would be through trial and error, and I feel that’s about what you said.
I then wanted to clarify what you’d written - and you clarified it by giving more info after I brought it up. Thanks for that.
I understand that you mostly run into people less experienced and knowledgable than you who argue every single point you make and it would get infuriating, so I apologize if that’s how I came across. I’m curious and wanted to hear your thoughts. Big fan, especially of your more…“emotional/mentality” based posts on IG. Thank you.
