Do You Hate Muslims?

[lixy]

[quote]Joe D. wrote:
Which version of the Koran did you read? [/quote]

Is that a joke?

There is only ONE version of the Quran.

It is fundamentally different to all other world religions and totally intolerant of the western way of life.

Please elaborate. What exactly is it you find fundamentally different about it? Last I checked, it wasn’t a new religion. It was meant as a revival of the true Abrahameic monotheistic message.

I am a Muslim who is very tolerant of Western lifestyle. I don’t see why you’d call it intolerant.

Islam spread across the globe and was only stopped by determined effort by the west to stop it.

Boo! Beware of the plague.

What kind of thing is that to say. If Islam is indeed spreading across the globe, it rather weakens your previous claim of “intolerance” and “fundamental differences”.

One only needs to look at the protests in Turkey to see the reality of western values fighting again the tide of Islam.

Judging from such a comment, it appears that you don’t seem to have enough background on Turkish history, political system, and society.

Read on a bit about the complexity of the issue before making patently false catch lines;

Turkey: torn between God and state

Muslims living in western countries are no doubt nice people, but they do not afford the same niceties to non-muslims when the are the majority. Simply look to ANY Muslim country for proof of this.

Ok. You pushed it too far this time.

What kind of knowledge do you have of Muslim countries? Did you ever live for a long strech of time in ANY of them? Are you in contact with indigenous people living in one of them. You judge a billion and a half people and 40+ countries based on what you see about Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia in the news. This is quite unfair if you ask me.

I am familiar with practically every single Arab country, and let me tell you that, with the exception of the Saudis, Christian and Jewish communities are treated with the utmost respect in all of them.

For someone so keen on denouncing blind intolerance, you come off as a…how shall I put it? Bah, let’s remain courteous. There is no way to put it delicately.

[pat]

No.

Islam is in deep deep trouble right now. It is racked with radicalism and violence, combined with a greater indifference to the big problems with in by Muslims at large. They blame all there problems and short coming on the U.S. and Israel and are not looking with in. There are divided as well and the radicalism is not only pervasive, it is growing. It is like a cancer eating away at the body and at best taking an asprin to stop it. The dike is crumbling and there is merely a few fingers attempting to stop the flow.

Islam is in a state of self destruction right now, just like a cancer that kills the body. I sincerely hope and pray that wiser and cooler heads prevail and they clean and cut out the cancers with in. I would like nothing more then to defend Islam as a religion of peace. Unfortunately, I cannot say that right now and I think that is tragic.

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

When I was 11 I fell out of a mango tree and broke my arm. I hate mangos and trees.

[entheogens]

I dont hate Muslims, but I do hate those of any faith who who would impose their religion on secular society.

For that reason, thank goodness one radical Christian fundamentalist bit the dust this week, Jerry Falwell.
If there is a hell, he’s there.

[fireplug52]

[quote]Joe D. wrote:
Which version of the Koran did you read?

Why well meaning liberal westerners give support to this tide of oppression, intolerance and misogyny, I do not understand. It is fundamentally different to all other world religions and totally intolerant of the western way of life. Islam spread across the globe and was only stopped by determined effort by the west to stop it.

Now all the west is bowing down to it under some fear of appearing intolerant or racist, and give no support to secularists in the east, or those under oppression in Muslim countries. One only needs to look at the protests in Turkey to see the reality of western values fighting again the tide of Islam.

People who consider themselves liberals in the west need to wake up to the fact that by tolerating Islamic intolerance, one is giving up the rights that we as secularists fought so hard for throughtout history.

Muslims living in western countries are no doubt nice people, but they do not afford the same niceties to non-muslims when the are the majority. Simply look to ANY Muslim country for proof of this.[/quote]

I think you are making a common error in equating the Muslim religion with the cultures in most Muslim nations.

History is enlightening on that score. Ca 1500 AD the Muslim world was the enlightened, genteel (comparatively) society, whereas Europe was deep into barbarism and Xenophobia. At that time in Muslim nations one could practice their religion freely so long as you respected Islam and paid your taxes.

Compare that to Europe at the time, where the Inquisition reined and if you were a non Christian you would be burned. So, what changed? The religious books didn’t they are the same. Obviously the way in which our respective cultures interpreted these teachings changed.

People say that Islam is a fundamentally intolerant, violent religion. However, wouldn’t one have said that 500 years ago about Christianity? Do we now ignore the religious violence and extremism in Western culture’s past and present while emphasizing Islams’?

[pat]

[quote]lixy wrote:
Joe D. wrote:
Which version of the Koran did you read?

Is that a joke?

There is only ONE version of the Quran.

[/quote]

Oh yea, well what about the King James version?

[Ken_Kaniff]

Yes I do. I’m sorry if that offends anyone but I really do.

I’m from Bosnia and what the Muslims there did to my father, my family and me home I will never be able to forgive. I have tried, I know that there are really nice Muslims out there, and I’ve met a few, but still inside of me, even when I’m being nice to them (which is always,

I’m not open in person about this) there is this part of me that resents them for what they did my family and I just can’t get over that.

Thats interesting, ive just read a book about a muslim bosnian girl who during the war in the early 90’s was put in a concentration camp for 2 years and was raped by 5 different guys each day.

U people down there were all screwed up, that conflict was the perfect example of what goes wrong if nationalism and religion get mixed.

[entheogens]

[quote]pat36 wrote:
They blame all there problems and short coming on the U.S. and Israel and are not looking with in. There are divided as well and the radicalism is not only pervasive, it is growing. It is like a cancer eating away at the body and at best taking an asprin to stop it…[/quote]

Hey, that’s what fundamentalists do. Look at the radical Christian fundamentalists in our country, USA.
They blame gays, feminists, science and anybody to the Left of Attila the Hun for all the problems.

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]entheogens wrote:

Hey, that’s what fundamentalists do. Look at the radical Christian fundamentalists in our country, USA.
They blame gays, feminists, science and anybody to the Left of Attila the Hun for all the problems.[/quote]

Ridiculous moral equivocation.

The rabid right Christians you complain of - do they do anything other than try to influence public opinion to get their way? Try and get laws passed that suit their ideology?

You don’t have to like them, that is fine - just don’t equate the two.

[thunderbolt23]

[quote]fireplug52 wrote:

People say that Islam is a fundamentally intolerant, violent religion. However, wouldn’t one have said that 500 years ago about Christianity? Do we now ignore the religious violence and extremism in Western culture’s past and present while emphasizing Islams’?
[/quote]

If you are going to cite “history”, at least do us the favor of getting it right.

You suggest religions go down this determinist path and that Christianity having come out of its “dark age”, so shall Islam.

You ignore the fact that this deterministic approach ignores qualitative differences. Not only are Christianity and Islam different in scope, mission, means, and the nature of the prophet, the two religions have different histories - one has had to undergo a Reformation, schisms, a Renaissance, and an Enlightenment.

The other has not.

The determinist model you suggest would have to have both religions being qualitatively the same - they are not, so your comparisons are meaningless.

There seems to be this brainless, reflexive and politically correct idea to make sure and throw Christianity under the bus anytime someone is critical of Islam: “Oh yeah? Well, Christians used to slaughter one another!”

It is dumb and takes our collective eye off an important analysis of what is broken with Islamic culture.

[lixy]

[quote]pat36 wrote:
lixy wrote:
Joe D. wrote:
Which version of the Koran did you read?

Is that a joke?

There is only ONE version of the Quran.

Oh yea, well what about the King James version?[/quote]

Forgive me for not being in the mood for laughs. When a guy asserts that ANY Muslim country is intolerant, it’s very serious business.

Judging from his generalizations, I’d say Joe D. knows nothing about Islam other than what some media want to tell him. So, for the sake of peace, love and understanding, I’ll ask you to refrain from your ambiguous posts that bare little humoristic value (I’m thinking about the clitorectomy one).

Most people are too lazy to do proper research and check claims and sources. I hope you understand.

Thanks.

[lixy]

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
You ignore the fact that this deterministic approach ignores qualitative differences. Not only are Christianity and Islam different in scope, mission, means, and the nature of the prophet, the two religions have different histories - one has had to undergo a Reformation, schisms, a Renaissance, and an Enlightenment.

The other has not. [/quote]

Enlighten as on what you perceive as differences in scope and mission of the two religions.

The determinist model you suggest would have to have both religions being qualitatively the same - they are not, so your comparisons are meaningless.

Don’t be so sure. The extremists have Mullahs and other people with a channel straight to God. That is what makes their twisted interpretation of Islam similar to Christianity.

ANY religion can be potentially dangerous if interpreted by the wrong people. Be they Zionists, radical Christians or Islamists.

Qualitatively, all monotheistic religions are analogous. Heck, they claim to emanate from the same God.

There seems to be this brainless, reflexive and politically correct idea to make sure and throw Christianity under the bus anytime someone is critical of Islam: “Oh yeah? Well, Christians used to slaughter one another!”

Nobody’s blaming Christianity for it silly. Some radical power-hungry nutjobs are always behind twisting religions.

It is dumb and takes our collective eye off an important analysis of what is broken with Islamic culture.

You do realize that Fireplug was arguing against “people [who] say that Islam is a fundamentally intolerant, violent religion”? When you qualified his judgement as “dumb”, do you mean to tell that you believe Islam to be fundamentally intolerant and violent?

Do share.

[entheogens]

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Ridiculous moral equivocation.

The rabid right Christians you complain of - do they do anything other than try to influence public opinion to get their way? Try and get laws passed that suit their ideology?

You don’t have to like them, that is fine - just don’t equate the two.[/quote]

There is a lot that fundamentalist Christians and Muslims share in common.

Anti-science (except when they need to use the technology created by science to propogate their message).

Anti-gay.

Anti-sex for that matter.

Anti-female (as long as females stay in the kitchen-unless their Ann Coulter- females are ok).

Anti-abortion.

Base themselves on selected passages of scriptures that cannot stand up against the weight of rational argument.

Not being able to deal with the complexities of modern life, the thirst of new categories of people who desire to take a part in life, they give a simple solution: return to tradition.

[fireplug52]

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
If you are going to cite “history”, at least do us the favor of getting it right.

You suggest religions go down this determinist path and that Christianity having come out of its “dark age”, so shall Islam.

You ignore the fact that this deterministic approach ignores qualitative differences. Not only are Christianity and Islam different in scope, mission, means, and the nature of the prophet, the two religions have different histories - one has had to undergo a Reformation, schisms, a Renaissance, and an Enlightenment.

The other has not.

The determinist model you suggest would have to have both religions being qualitatively the same - they are not, so your comparisons are meaningless.

There seems to be this brainless, reflexive and politically correct idea to make sure and throw Christianity under the bus anytime someone is critical of Islam: “Oh yeah? Well, Christians used to slaughter one another!”

It is dumb and takes our collective eye off an important analysis of what is broken with Islamic culture.[/quote]

My intention was not to suggest that all religions are on the same development arc, but rather that the relationship between extremism and religion seems to vary through time rather irrespective of the religion under discussion.

Rather than be PC, my use of Christianity was simply to illustrate the point that any religion can seem to be extreme and violent given the correct cultural conditions. I could have used Buddhism instead, or any religious war.

I’m not even suggesting that because we may understand the current east/west conflict to be a cultural one, and not religious means that we cannot fight it. By all means western culture can defend itself, but I would rather not see polemic or the assumption that we hold some monopoly on righteousness.

[pookie]

[quote]pat36 wrote:
lixy wrote:
Joe D. wrote:
Which version of the Koran did you read?

Is that a joke?

There is only ONE version of the Quran.

Oh yea, well what about the King James version?[/quote]

There’s a King James version of the koran?

Quite the prolific translator, that King James.

[Petedacook]

I have read some of the posts here, and quite frankly it disturbs me.

I have worked, and become very close with many Muslim people. They go down in my book as some of the most honest, hard working, and forth right people I have ever come across.

I do not hate Muslim people. I do not hate any people, except these self righteous rich right wing fuktard that have the education of my 6 year old(which foillow since they teach that grade…right HH?).

Anyhow, I truely believe the self righteous self proclaimed “righteous majority” are totally fucked in the head.

They twist and turn the bible intil it bleeds. Right HH?

They really make me sick. In my opinion, we are all gods people, it is not my job to sort you out, it is god’s and jesus job. I do my personal best as a person I can and I praise my lord as my savior.

That is all I can do.

[Birbal]

I agree with most that you do not hate all muslims but those who create world troubles. But people seen to even hate the word muslim when the get to know a person is a muslim. How is this justified.

[Wreckless]

I don’t hate any group based on religion, race etc.

I do think that there is too much violence done in the name of religion and moderates need to step up and speak out against it much more forcefully.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
I don’t hate any group based on religion, race etc.

I do think that there is too much violence done in the name of religion and moderates need to step up and speak out against it much more forcefully.
[/quote]

Did you just agree with me? I feel queasy.

[apbt55]

[quote]entheogens wrote:
There is a lot that fundamentalist Christians and Muslims share in common.

Anti-science (except when they need to use the technology created by science to propogate their message).

Anti-gay.

Anti-sex for that matter.

Anti-female (as long as females stay in the kitchen-unless their Ann Coulter- females are ok).

Anti-abortion.

Base themselves on selected passages of scriptures that cannot stand up against the weight of rational argument.

Not being able to deal with the complexities of modern life, the thirst of new categories of people who desire to take a part in life, they give a simple solution: return to tradition.

[/quote]

anti-sex only if it’s with the same sex. God made man and woman to be together to be one how the hell do you get anti-sex out of that.

anti-science, now you are way off base. Believing in creationism does in no way make you anti science. It may give you a different set of hypothesi to try to support but it doesn’t make you anti science.

but besides that it appears you have no idea what it means to believe in GOD to place your faith in the risen savior.

I have noticed it reiterated a couple of times that it is radicals that cause the problems, it is in any case.

Be it religious or civil liberties or political radicals. Sometimes people need to take care of their own if you catch my drift.

If I am out and I see someone claiming to have a relationship with GOD criticizing or chastizing I will rip into them.

If a muslim were to see a radical muslim setting up a detinator to the c4 strapped to his chest I hope he would assert the same effort.

sorry just busting balls.