All guessing aside, Westside is obviously not concerned about their credibility as regards serious lifters.
@EyeDentist: it’s good that this forum allows people to express their opinions and completely disagree with each other.
No, corticosteroids are not important when we discuss training methods of enhanced athletes and their results. You are bringing corticosteroids into a conversation that did not involve them. Vitamin D3 is a steroid. Cholesterol is a sterol, which is a class of steroid. Are you going to talk about them?
Honestly, I figured you’d just avoid the topic after being called out on this, but defending yourself after blatantly moving the goalposts and discussing a class of drug that has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with what we’re talking about when talking about “enhanced” athletes shows exactly what type of ‘conversation’ you’re going to engage in.
“I don’t know anything about him, but I didn’t learn anything from him.” I’ll back out of this conversation at this point, haha. Best of luck to you.
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We can take this as a joke, right?
If those opinions are on medical matters though, it might be worth sharing credentials as well. I, for one, am likely to hold the opinion of a qualified and experienced physician in higher regard than someone that read something on the Internet. Just my 2c.
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As I said, I couldn’t agree more. This, and your previous post, could have been written by me. Though I got to know BJ through the old Darden forum. I have always liked trainers who think, and provide sound motives behind their reasoning. Much like Dr Darden and Brian Johnston. And yes, Brian’s latest “encyclopedia” is truly a masterpiece.
That being said, @davemccright introduced me to Dr Scott Stevenson’s Fortitude Training, which I am thankful for, and currently trying out. The perfect hybrid of all things hypertrophy. Another masterpiece. My first impression is - What a great program! You feel the positive difference after every workout! Much like how BJ recommends you rate a functional workout.
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I almost passed on the corticosteroids discussion.
As a clinician, having administered many injections over the years, I can only add that there is a very limited group of patients qualifying for this type of treatment. It has to be an individual assessment, where you take into account the cause, location and duration of injury. Also taking the individuals demands/requirement/lifestyle into account. Most important is the prognostic long term effect of a corticosteroid injection. My personal experience is that you may treat or reduce symtoms with a properly indicated injection - but this in order to aid or establish a rehabilitation through physiotherapist or similar. Here I am especially referring to tendonitis in general.
But - There are lots of different reasons/injuries/indications for corticosteroids, which makes this discussion complicated here. Not forgetting all the reasons/indications or LOCATIONS where NOT to use corticosteroids.
Personally, I would be VERY cautious to give corticosteroids to trainees in general. These patients/people most often have the ability to correct the problem through rehabilitation. Or to put it simple - the ability to train differently (adaptive).
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Talk about derailing the topic at hand
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What we have here is a failure to communicate about failure, ha ha!
Scott
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I think you’re missing the point. He’s using corticosteroids as a prop for his argument that anabolic steroids make you more resistant to injury. It doesn’t matter what corticosteroids do or don’t do, we were not discussing them, we were discussing the drugs that bodybuilders take, which are not corticosteroids. Tom Platz wasn’t using corticosteroids to allow himself to use crazy body English and intensity on exercises. It was, as I said, disingenuous to bring them into the discussion in the first place. For him to continue to bring them up and defend having introduced them is flat out ridiculous.
I’m sure we can return the discussion to people working beyond failure, where this originated.
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@pettersson: thank you, I will look into Fortitude Training.
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@dagill2: I don’t remember others being asked to share credentials or provide links or bibliography of resources when sharing opinions on the topics of this forum, either medical in nature or note. Special treatment for me, I presume. OK, if you want me to be the first one, I will do it next time.
Here you go
I can find more if you’re interested, but don’t worry: you aren’t the first.
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@flappinit: you ability to misinterpret my words is charming, but I truly uphold your right to have your own opinion, including in relation to my posts. What I can’t understand is why my posts make you so nervous and angry as if I have treaded on your corns. Your conclusions about my intentions are 100% wrong as well. In relation to John Meadows, your interpretation of my words is wrong again. I said: I know almost nothing about him, except for dozens of youtube videos which I watched, but I don’t remember having taken anything valuable from his teachings. Giving a fresh example, I don’t know anything about personality or life of Lyle McDonald, for instance, about his training experience (of himself and others), about his nutritional preferences etc., however, I took a lot of valuable insights from his book. On the contrary, I know few things about Dr. Darden, Arthur Jones, Vince Gironda, Brian Johnston and some others, from different sources, and I also took some valuable insights from all of them. In case of Meadows, I repeat that I know almost nothing about him, which doesn’t preclude me from implementing any of this training advices if I find them suitable for me.
Finally, I don’t need luck. By 44 I have already achieved through my own work ethics and determination more than any person can dream of in his entire life. I will stop here to close the topic.
There’s an entire thread in the pharma section about medical credentials.
I just looked up Fortitude Training. That is a lot of volume and training days (for me anyway), but if it works for you. But training each muscle four days a week?! Seriously? No science behind that.
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I’ve been training my whole body everyday for about 9 months now…
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Do you know there’s no evidence? Or are you just dismissing it because it doesn’t agree with your viewpoint?
Do we need peer reviewed, lab tested results for everything or is “this worked for me” good enough?
The vast majority of peer reviewed studies show no difference between 1X, 2X, or 3X a week (per muscle) for advanced trainees. That doesn’t mean a given individual cannot benefit, or even prefer, more frequency. But just sayin’.
But many of the programs that use those frequencies work.
Edit: I guess most of my posts in this thread have been a reaction to what I perceive to be a very dogmatic way of thinking. We all know there are many, many ways to get bigger or stronger or leaner and at the level most of us are operating at, they all work.
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