[quote]OTS1 wrote:
I fear that some of the thinking in this thread may lead to a US polio outbreak in our lifetimes. I have read some evidence that this is already starting. I for one, believe in evidence based medicine. What does this mean? It means we have wiped certain deadly diseases off the earth through vaccination, and we have pushed others out of the industrialized world through vaccination.
There has been no evidence supporting thymerizol <spelling is wrong, I’m sure> causing autism. Yes, this is a mercury compound. Table salt contains sodium, which is flammable on contact with moisture on its own, and chlorine, which is more lethal than any heavy metal. The binding of an element into a chemical compound completely alters the properties of all of the elements involved.
Now, all this being said, if the pharm. companies could remove this controversial compound, I wish they would, so as to prevent setting public health back a hundred years.[/quote]
I agree with you on thimerosal.
NaCl does break down in the body to Na+ and CL-, so you can’t go around breathing chlorine gas or eating solid sodium (although a video of that would be something wouldn’t it).
Thimerosal has mercury in it, but I don’t know if the body breaks down the molecule and lets mercury run free or not, haven’t looked into it.
[quote]Lordcliff wrote:
SpookMayest wrote:
Oh gosh you guys. I don’t get vaccinated. Against anything.
So I’m going to cough on you. End of story.
I’m not saying vaccines are the answer to all our health problems. People genetically have different immune system strengths. I work in health care, and I treat everyone like they have something I don’t know about that I could catch. There are things there aren’t vaccines for. You are fortunate you don’t get sick, and I can’t say vaccines work all the time. But your argument that you haven’t been immunized and haven’t gotten significantly ill says nothing about the actual efficacy of said vaccines. You either a)have not been exposed to a significant amount of a pathogen, b)have a kick ass immune system so far, or both. It does not refute that vaccines are not effective. It’s like me saying that since I’m Finnish, I don’t have to worry about AIDS.
[/quote]
Right. I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t trying to change anyone’s mind. I wasn’t trying to prove a point, which I think I stated to begin with. So you guys are really arguing against a point that was never made.
As for those kids with polio, shit I’ll cough on them too just because I can.
[quote]on edge wrote:
Cherrymennos wrote:
I go to a public trust college and we have to have our hep B vaccine.
I doubt it. You see, there are many institutions that pretend they have these requirements, but if pressed by someone who knows better, they will acquiesce. If you work in the cafeteria you need to get the hep vaccine. What school do you go to? I bet I can find a clause that could be used by anyone to opt out of the vaccine.[/quote]
University of Arizona. It is one of the cheapest universities in the country because it is public trust. I had to show my Hep B vaccine records to be enrolled. However, I know that you can opt out of vaccination for your children in public schools. It makes sense that the same can be true for my university.
[quote]SpookMayest wrote:
Lordcliff wrote:
SpookMayest wrote:
Oh gosh you guys. I don’t get vaccinated. Against anything.
So I’m going to cough on you. End of story.
I’m not saying vaccines are the answer to all our health problems. People genetically have different immune system strengths. I work in health care, and I treat everyone like they have something I don’t know about that I could catch. There are things there aren’t vaccines for. You are fortunate you don’t get sick, and I can’t say vaccines work all the time. But your argument that you haven’t been immunized and haven’t gotten significantly ill says nothing about the actual efficacy of said vaccines. You either a)have not been exposed to a significant amount of a pathogen, b)have a kick ass immune system so far, or both. It does not refute that vaccines are not effective. It’s like me saying that since I’m Finnish, I don’t have to worry about AIDS.
Right. I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t trying to change anyone’s mind. I wasn’t trying to prove a point, which I think I stated to begin with. So you guys are really arguing against a point that was never made.
As for those kids with polio, shit I’ll cough on them too just because I can.
[/quote
If you are not trying to change minds or prove a point, you are just saying you don’t care overall? Just trying to be clear.
In fucking 1976. Way to conveniently overlook the fact that you are talking about the technology that was available more than a quarter century ago.
If you want to look at some numbers, try taking a look at the number of people dying or suffering life altering complications from illnesses such as Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Smallpox, Polio, etc in the 50 years before the vaccines became widely utilized and the 50 years after. Then compare the first number (those affected by these diseases pre-vaccine era) with the number of people who have been definitively harmed by the vaccinations. Now, let’s look at the number of unvaccinated individuals who have died in outbreaks of diseases that were thought to be nearly erradicated. If you had the capacity to think logically (which I am doubting at this point), you would realize that your precious “Doctor” has killed more people than any vaccine.
Let’s also look at the fact that 40,000,000 people were inoculated and 525 had complications. Advil has a higher incidence of negative outcomes than that.
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?
[quote]nik133 wrote:
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?[/quote]
Cite that figure in a credible source. Youtube and Wikipedia are not credible sources and do not constitute research of any type. You forget the magic of the internet…anyone can post anything, whether it’s true or not.
Right. I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t trying to change anyone’s mind. I wasn’t trying to prove a point, which I think I stated to begin with. So you guys are really arguing against a point that was never made.
As for those kids with polio, shit I’ll cough on them too just because I can.
[/quote]
Bullshit. Then why do you keep posting in this thread?
Right. I thought I made it clear that I wasn’t trying to change anyone’s mind. I wasn’t trying to prove a point, which I think I stated to begin with. So you guys are really arguing against a point that was never made.
As for those kids with polio, shit I’ll cough on them too just because I can.
Bullshit. Then why do you keep posting in this thread?[/quote]
So I can scroll past her display pic every now and then. Stop complaining about the hott girl posting in the thread.
[quote]earp wrote:
I find it shocking that the people who are refusing to get these immunizations don’t understand why they are so important. People have made light of Rubella and chicken pox. The reason for getting immunized is not just to prevent disease in yourself. It’s to prevent the complications that occur if a woman contracts these diseases while pregnant. The fewer people getting these vaccines increases the chances that babies will be born with some awful complications associated with a disease that is completely preventable. This is an important point but seems to have been overlooked.[/quote]
Valid point. But that said, why do you need to vaccinate a 6 month old for Rubella? I haven’t heard of too many 5 year olds giving birth.
We aren’t vaccinating my daughter…at least not yet. I figure I may be best served waiting until she’s a few years old and has a better developed immune system and she can tell me if there’s anything wrong before giving her a few select vaccines. Por ejemplo, I don’t see a need to vaccinate her for rotavirus. She will certainly get rubella when she gets older. I am rather upset by the fact that they are going to stop letting us get measels, mumps and rubella seperately, instead of forcing MMR on us.
But here’s the deal in my mind: vaccines are a double-edged sword. Do they work? I figure they probably do. Thanks to the free market and profit motive, they are produced. This is good. Unfortunately, due to corruption in our political system and the profit motive, in less free states the coercive force of government is used to push unnecessary vaccines on you. The fact that you HAVE to take the vaccine does not motivate companies to engage in good quality products and safety protocols.
Mike brings up a good point. I think the majority of us NON-vaccine people are really going against all the new flue and hpv and other vaccines. I mean I’m sure a vaccine against the black plague would have done much more good than harm had it been around in the middle ages. I just think FORCING or trying to force someone to geta vaccine is bullshit.
So while I am not against someone getting the major vaccines, I think people are just wasting thier time with all the other ones. It’s like taking advil for a headache. I don’t and I have only had a few headaches in my life that were hard to deal with. My sister for example can’t wake up in the morning without ripping down two advils because she uses it for every ache in her body. Do you think she would be writhing in pain if advil didn’t exist? no she would just learn to live with it and in a pretty short time she wouldn’t even realise there was anything going on.
[quote]Michael570 wrote:
on edge wrote:
Those who get the vaccine are much, much more at risk of contracting shingles later in life. Shingles is a much bigger threat than chicken pox.
Considering the vaccine was introduced ~20 years ago, I would like to humbly call bullshit on your claim.
Thank you.[/quote]
Well, you’re wrong. You have to get boosters every few years, if you forget, you’re vulnerable to the virus. Most people, when they hit their 20’s, stop going for regular checkups and thus are likely to fall behind on their shots.
[quote]Lordcliff wrote:
earp wrote:
I find it shocking that the people who are refusing to get these immunizations don’t understand why they are so important. People have made light of Rubella and chicken pox. The reason for getting immunized is not just to prevent disease in yourself. It’s to prevent the complications that occur if a woman contracts these diseases while pregnant. The fewer people getting these vaccines increases the chances that babies will be born with some awful complications associated with a disease that is completely preventable. This is an important point but seems to have been overlooked.
I concur
Side effects like
Mental deficiencies
Heart problems
Eye deformities
Hearing loss
But hey, if someone wants a retarded blind deaf child who is going die at 2 from heart problems, i guess that’s their choice.
Let’s remember also, there are an people who think that everyone else has their kids immunized, so they aren’t people to catch it from.
Yes, vaccines are not 100% effective. They have side effects just like anything else you take, i should just stop taking by benazapril because i get an occasional dry cough. I could stop taking my zolpidem because sometimes words start dancing on the book i take on my before bed shit. Why not dump my ritalin (which is IMO overprescribed to children, i didn’t start until 2 years ago.) because it can cause tachycardia, which with my WPW could kill me. Who needs an antidepressant, i might get dry mouth. Even driving to work had the potential to kill me. There are risks in everything we do, even though most people deny it or pass responsibility on to others.
House was right, people are (insert idiots, morons, stupid, etc…)
[/quote]
Your last post on the Shingles/Chicken Pox was very good. You made some points that I need to look into. This post, however, completely sucks. It reeks of the pervasive yet unfounded (and unreasonable) scare tactics that the pro vaccine industry spews. The bottom line is you need to weight the risks of getting vaccines vs the risks of not getting vaccines. With all the bullshit out there, on both sides, it’s hard to know what numbers are accurate. One thing that is clear to me is the choice is not so clear cut as to be able to call someone an idiot for not getting vaccines.
[quote]OTS1 wrote:
I fear that some of the thinking in this thread may lead to a US polio outbreak in our lifetimes. I have read some evidence that this is already starting. I for one, believe in evidence based medicine. What does this mean? It means we have wiped certain deadly diseases off the earth through vaccination, and we have pushed others out of the industrialized world through vaccination.
[/quote]
This is actually arguable. Ever notice the really nasty viruses get eradicated but the pesky ones stick around? This is because it works in a viruses favor to not kill us. If it kills us it’s got no host and dies off itself.
Regarding pushing “others” out of the industrialized world, the industrialized world has no rain forests. When something nasty like malaria breaks out of the jungle and into an industrialized population it’s days are numbered. It’s got no where to fall back too and not enough mosquitos to continue transmission and it dies out on it’s own.
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
earp wrote:
I find it shocking that the people who are refusing to get these immunizations don’t understand why they are so important. People have made light of Rubella and chicken pox. The reason for getting immunized is not just to prevent disease in yourself. It’s to prevent the complications that occur if a woman contracts these diseases while pregnant. The fewer people getting these vaccines increases the chances that babies will be born with some awful complications associated with a disease that is completely preventable. This is an important point but seems to have been overlooked.
Valid point. But that said, why do you need to vaccinate a 6 month old for Rubella? I haven’t heard of too many 5 year olds giving birth.
We aren’t vaccinating my daughter…at least not yet. I figure I may be best served waiting until she’s a few years old and has a better developed immune system and she can tell me if there’s anything wrong before giving her a few select vaccines. Por ejemplo, I don’t see a need to vaccinate her for rotavirus. She will certainly get rubella when she gets older. I am rather upset by the fact that they are going to stop letting us get measels, mumps and rubella seperately, instead of forcing MMR on us.
But here’s the deal in my mind: vaccines are a double-edged sword. Do they work? I figure they probably do. Thanks to the free market and profit motive, they are produced. This is good. Unfortunately, due to corruption in our political system and the profit motive, in less free states the coercive force of government is used to push unnecessary vaccines on you. The fact that you HAVE to take the vaccine does not motivate companies to engage in good quality products and safety protocols.
Valid point. But that said, why do you need to vaccinate a 6 month old for Rubella? I haven’t heard of too many 5 year olds giving birth.
[/quote]
The reason for immunizing young children is that if you immunize a young child there is less of a chance that they will get the disease and serve as a source to infect other nonimmune people. You could make a point that no men need the Rubella vaccine because they don’t give birth but you need to keep in mind that the vaccine doesn’t always work and there will always be people who are not immune or missed their vaccinations either by choice or due to the fact that they may be from a country that doesn’t immunize. It is also easier to immunize at this age because they are also going in to see their GP for their regular check ups.
Kind of like the supposed autism link that happens to have ZERO scientific basis, but is still the rationale for so many sheepish idiots refusing to have their children vaccinated for things like POLIO?