Do Not Get Vaccinated!

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
nik133 wrote:
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?

Cite that figure in a credible source. Youtube and Wikipedia are not credible sources and do not constitute research of any type. You forget the magic of the internet…anyone can post anything, whether it’s true or not.[/quote]

Sorry man, looks live I’ll never find a credible enough source for you, I guess the media isn’t credible enough, yet you choose to believe all the other garbage they sell you, it’s amazing how much you try to convince yourself of one thing, while continually ignoring everything people bring forward just so in your mind you can justify why you are so naive.

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
nik133 wrote:
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?

Cite that figure in a credible source. Youtube and Wikipedia are not credible sources and do not constitute research of any type. You forget the magic of the internet…anyone can post anything, whether it’s true or not.

Sorry man, looks live I’ll never find a credible enough source for you, I guess the media isn’t credible enough, yet you choose to believe all the other garbage they sell you, it’s amazing how much you try to convince yourself of one thing, while continually ignoring everything people bring forward just so in your mind you can justify why you are so naive.[/quote]

Yeah, Stronghold. Get with it. You need to stop believing everything the media and government tells you. Like, vaccines are totally bad, mmkay? I know TONS of people that have been vaccinated and some of them are pretty dumb, so obviously you risk that if you get vaccinated.

Oh, and steroids aren’t going to make your penis fall off like the media says. They will only make it smaller. Seriously. Its science, and I know this guy…

[quote]Stronghold wrote:
on edge wrote:pervasive yet unfounded (and unreasonable) scare tactics that the pro vaccine industry spews

Kind of like the supposed autism link that happens to have ZERO scientific basis, [/quote]

I agree, I hate the quacks that get involved on the anti-vaccine side. Specifically on the autism debate. I remember when I looked at the seemingly credible information I could find, I came to the conclusion there’s no link between autism and vaccines.

It seems the whole debate would be mute if some grad student would take it up for their thesis. In depth statistical analysis of the populations should give us a hell of a lot of information about the effectiveness and risks of different vaccines.

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?[/quote]

I am willing to accept your statistics as valid, as I have no reason to dismiss them.

The amish don’t drink. The amish don’t do drugs. The amish eat mostly natural foods. They are exposed to high levels of sawdust. Who knows? If this reasoning holds true, then its obvious that eating gifilte fish while pregnant is the cause of Tay-Sachs disease. Do you know how rare Tay-Sachs is in the non-gifilte eating population?

Nearly all victims of breast cancer in the united states drank apple juice at some point in their lives. The statistical link is obvious.

Basic logic should be involved in this discussion.

I’m also going to make a value judgement here: I’d prefer an increase in autism within a population than a polio/measles/rubella/smallpox (eradicated through innoculation)/dyptheria/hepatitis outbreak, or as was the case before vaccinations: constant oubreaks and “burns” through the population.

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
nik133 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
nik133 wrote:
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?

Cite that figure in a credible source. Youtube and Wikipedia are not credible sources and do not constitute research of any type. You forget the magic of the internet…anyone can post anything, whether it’s true or not.

Sorry man, looks live I’ll never find a credible enough source for you, I guess the media isn’t credible enough, yet you choose to believe all the other garbage they sell you, it’s amazing how much you try to convince yourself of one thing, while continually ignoring everything people bring forward just so in your mind you can justify why you are so naive.

Yeah, Stronghold. Get with it. You need to stop believing everything the media and government tells you. Like, vaccines are totally bad, mmkay? I know TONS of people that have been vaccinated and some of them are pretty dumb, so obviously you risk that if you get vaccinated.

Oh, and steroids aren’t going to make your penis fall off like the media says. They will only make it smaller. Seriously. Its science, and I know this guy…[/quote]

Yeah bro.
I don’t take those steroid drugs so I’m not that big. It’s ok though cuz my penis is gonna be HYUUUUGE!!!

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Vaccines have been known to have Mercury which can cause Brain Damage or Autism.[/quote]

Ehm, false.

I’m pretty sure those Autistic kids are just faking it.

[quote]on edge wrote:
Lordcliff wrote:
earp wrote:
I find it shocking that the people who are refusing to get these immunizations don’t understand why they are so important. People have made light of Rubella and chicken pox. The reason for getting immunized is not just to prevent disease in yourself. It’s to prevent the complications that occur if a woman contracts these diseases while pregnant. The fewer people getting these vaccines increases the chances that babies will be born with some awful complications associated with a disease that is completely preventable. This is an important point but seems to have been overlooked.

I concur

Side effects like
Mental deficiencies
Heart problems
Eye deformities
Hearing loss

But hey, if someone wants a retarded blind deaf child who is going die at 2 from heart problems, i guess that’s their choice.

Let’s remember also, there are an people who think that everyone else has their kids immunized, so they aren’t people to catch it from.

Yes, vaccines are not 100% effective. They have side effects just like anything else you take, i should just stop taking by benazapril because i get an occasional dry cough. I could stop taking my zolpidem because sometimes words start dancing on the book i take on my before bed shit. Why not dump my ritalin (which is IMO overprescribed to children, i didn’t start until 2 years ago.) because it can cause tachycardia, which with my WPW could kill me. Who needs an antidepressant, i might get dry mouth. Even driving to work had the potential to kill me. There are risks in everything we do, even though most people deny it or pass responsibility on to others.

House was right, people are (insert idiots, morons, stupid, etc…)

Your last post on the Shingles/Chicken Pox was very good. You made some points that I need to look into. This post, however, completely sucks. It reeks of the pervasive yet unfounded (and unreasonable) scare tactics that the pro vaccine industry spews. The bottom line is you need to weight the risks of getting vaccines vs the risks of not getting vaccines. With all the bullshit out there, on both sides, it’s hard to know what numbers are accurate. One thing that is clear to me is the choice is not so clear cut as to be able to call someone an idiot for not getting vaccines.[/quote]

My choice of saying House is right in labeling people is not specific to this topic. I do get frustrated when people don’t agree with me, but what pisses me off more is people just seem to spout off whatever they want with little or no actual research and thinking for themselves. Lemmings I guess, that’s what I have a problem with. I respect a persons right to an opinion, as long as it is their opinion, not someone elses.

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Stronghold wrote:
nik133 wrote:
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?

Cite that figure in a credible source. Youtube and Wikipedia are not credible sources and do not constitute research of any type. You forget the magic of the internet…anyone can post anything, whether it’s true or not.

Sorry man, looks live I’ll never find a credible enough source for you, I guess the media isn’t credible enough, yet you choose to believe all the other garbage they sell you, it’s amazing how much you try to convince yourself of one thing, while continually ignoring everything people bring forward just so in your mind you can justify why you are so naive.[/quote]

You think the media is a credible source of information. Really?

Now who’s naive. I also provided links in a previous post from YouTube, giving a whole different point of view

I’m looking for something more concrete that something found with a Google search to refute anything I’ve learned from textbooks. Anecdotal evidence doesn’t fly with me

[quote]on edge wrote:
When my wife was pregnant with our first child we researched the issue in depth to make our decision. This was eight years ago, so my memory is faded on details, however, I do remember thinking that the pro-vaccine materials we read were quite pathetic. I could go through most of them point by point and tear them apart. I do remember one point, almost verbatim, and it was, something to the effect “when a problem is discovered with a vaccine it gets pulled from the market”.

Well, thats nice but they can’t pull it from a little babies body. Once it goes in there’s no going back. With further research I learned that statement is not entirely true. When they learned of the egg allergy problem with some vaccines, they changed the processing methods for future productions. They didn’t pull the old ones from the market - the ones that still contained the egg proteins. It turned out my son is allergic to eggs and they were (at the time) still using the old vaccine in our area.

In the end, my wife and I chose not to get any vaccines for our children. The one we were tempted to get is the one for Meningitis. That is one nasty bug and it’s prevalent enough to be a concern. An intelligent poster, earlier in this thread, said they would seriously consider the MMR vaccine. I don’t agree. I don’t see any of the those three as being much of a risk. Rubella is just a bad rash as far as I remember.

Some other points I remember not sitting well with me; By age 2 something like 32 vaccines are recommended by the AMA. That strikes me as such overkill (no pun intended, but I like it) as to indicate an industry that can’t be trusted. The Chicken Pox Vaccine is ludicrous. It’s not very strong so it needs to be repeated every 7 years, verses if you just get it, you have nearly a lifetime immunity. Those who get the vaccine are much, much more at risk of contracting shingles later in life. Shingles is a much bigger threat than chicken pox.[/quote]

OK I have to write something here. This thread has been seriously raising my blood pressure. “Rubella is just a bad rash” Please please please do some more research on what the Rubella is and what it does to unborn children if the mother is infected. This used to be rather more common than it is now…

As for mumps (one of the other diseases covered by the MMR) is your child a boy or a girl? If it’s a boy I hope he thanks you if he contracts mumps whilst at university (rather a common occurence now in the UK since the herd immunity dropped due to the MMR fiasco). This can cause rather extreme consequences for a boy. Like you not having any grandchildren…

All in all I give you a fail for your research project and am sorry for your child.

(I will agree about chickenpox though- don’t parents usually try to make sure their children get that disease to prevent the risk of shingles later on?)

As for the guy saying he’ll get vacinated if the disease becomes resistant…

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?[/quote]

Can you not think of any other environmental differences between and Amish kid and a normal american???

[quote]SpookMayest wrote:
novocaine wrote:
you dear sir, are an idiot. whether the swine flu vaccine is valid is another point.

So you are saying that anyone who doesn’t believe in general vaccinations is an idiot? That’s a bit vague. Insulting someone without evidence to back it up is a little shady and won’t gain you much respect or credibility.

I don’t know about all that swine flu business, but I for one haven’t been vaccinated since I was 3 and I’m healthy as a horse! Never had the flu or tetanus or diptheria (knock on wood).

I don’t really care either way if others get them or not, but I can strongly attest to the fact that I am no idiot. With or without vaccines.

[/quote]

As for you, selfish much?

[quote]lou21 wrote:

(I will agree about chickenpox though- don’t parents usually try to make sure their children get that disease to prevent the risk of shingles later on?)

As for the guy saying he’ll get vacinated if the disease becomes resistant…
[/quote]

Parents try to have their children get chickenpox because children actually have a milder first exposure than adults, it does not keep someone from getting shingles, because it’s a re-activation of the same virus later in life.

[quote]SpookMayest wrote:
Hi, being a biology major, I am aware of the complexities of the immune system. That does not make me anymore likely to get vaccinated. Never said I don’t think we should stop giving them. It’s a personal choice on my part as it is for everyone else. I’m simply representing one side of the matter as a non-vaccinated person. [/quote]

Problem is that your personal choice endangers other people.

[quote]lou21 wrote:
on edge wrote:
When my wife was pregnant with our first child we researched the issue in depth to make our decision. This was eight years ago, so my memory is faded on details, however, I do remember thinking that the pro-vaccine materials we read were quite pathetic. I could go through most of them point by point and tear them apart. I do remember one point, almost verbatim, and it was, something to the effect “when a problem is discovered with a vaccine it gets pulled from the market”.

Well, thats nice but they can’t pull it from a little babies body. Once it goes in there’s no going back. With further research I learned that statement is not entirely true. When they learned of the egg allergy problem with some vaccines, they changed the processing methods for future productions. They didn’t pull the old ones from the market - the ones that still contained the egg proteins. It turned out my son is allergic to eggs and they were (at the time) still using the old vaccine in our area.

In the end, my wife and I chose not to get any vaccines for our children. The one we were tempted to get is the one for Meningitis. That is one nasty bug and it’s prevalent enough to be a concern. An intelligent poster, earlier in this thread, said they would seriously consider the MMR vaccine. I don’t agree. I don’t see any of the those three as being much of a risk. Rubella is just a bad rash as far as I remember.

Some other points I remember not sitting well with me; By age 2 something like 32 vaccines are recommended by the AMA. That strikes me as such overkill (no pun intended, but I like it) as to indicate an industry that can’t be trusted. The Chicken Pox Vaccine is ludicrous. It’s not very strong so it needs to be repeated every 7 years, verses if you just get it, you have nearly a lifetime immunity. Those who get the vaccine are much, much more at risk of contracting shingles later in life. Shingles is a much bigger threat than chicken pox.

OK I have to write something here. This thread has been seriously raising my blood pressure. “Rubella is just a bad rash” Please please please do some more research on what the Rubella is and what it does to unborn children if the mother is infected. This used to be rather more common than it is now…

As for mumps (one of the other diseases covered by the MMR) is your child a boy or a girl? If it’s a boy I hope he thanks you if he contracts mumps whilst at university (rather a common occurence now in the UK since the herd immunity dropped due to the MMR fiasco). This can cause rather extreme consequences for a boy. Like you not having any grandchildren…

All in all I give you a fail for your research project and am sorry for your child.

(I will agree about chickenpox though- don’t parents usually try to make sure their children get that disease to prevent the risk of shingles later on?)

As for the guy saying he’ll get vacinated if the disease becomes resistant…
[/quote]

Good post. Many of these diseases, while not fatal by themselves, can have very serious complications.

The chickenpox vaccine is very important for people who do not get chickenpox during childhood. In adults, chickenpox has been fatal. As far as its use in young children, that is a different story.

[quote]nik133 wrote:
I know that with the swine flu outbreak there is talk of mass vaccination, I implore you PLEASE DO NOT GET VACCINATED! ( ://www.windsorstar.com/Health/Vaccinate+Canadians+under+natives+first+experts/1718965/story.html ). Vaccines have been known to have Mercury which can cause Brain Damage or Autism. The last swine flu outbreak in 1976 there was one death from the actual flu, however 25 people died from the vaccine and 500 contracted Guillain-Barr�© syndrome which affects the peripheral nervous system, DO NOT GET VACCINATED!!! ( Do Not Take A Swine Flu Vaccine! - Global ResearchGlobal Research - Centre for Research on Globalization)
(1976 swine flu outbreak - Wikipedia ) Please do not get the vaccine, I know I won’t be getting mine.[/quote]

This is unfortunate nonsense and the poster is a victim of the well-organised anti-vaccinate lobby. Some very bad and dishonest research by Andrew Wakefield has lead to a health crisis.

A good summary of the subject can be found at the always-marvellous csicop website - http://www.csicop.org/si/2007-06/novella.html

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Ok great thanks, you are clearly an expert. Now go back to my previous post watch the videos and answer my question relating to autism and why its so rampant in kids who get the vaccine and why in people who don’t get it hardly have any cases within their community (In the Amish community 4 in 22000 have autism 3 of which got the vaccine and 1 that lives near a power plant)?[/quote]

Yea feel free to show come credible evidence supporting you amish claim. Thats not a youtube video, any crazy can upload a video on there. And if you didn’t know, theres a lot more important differences between amish society and our society.

Autism is not “rampant” in kids getting vaccines. thermosol was taken out of vaccines, and autism rates still continued to increase, ethylmercury never gave a single person autism. And they’ve most likely made a jump in rates in last few decades because we’ve gotten better at diagnosing it.

And the man who spear headed that fraud was proven to be a fraud and had financial gain in getting people frenzied up about it.

to make an argument that is “well if you can’t disprove it, i must be right” rather than “i can prove this” is beyond retarded, perhaps you have autism.

[quote]on edge wrote:
Michael570 wrote:
on edge wrote:
Those who get the vaccine are much, much more at risk of contracting shingles later in life. Shingles is a much bigger threat than chicken pox.

Considering the vaccine was introduced ~20 years ago, I would like to humbly call bullshit on your claim.

Thank you.

Well, you’re wrong. You have to get boosters every few years, if you forget, you’re vulnerable to the virus. Most people, when they hit their 20’s, stop going for regular checkups and thus are likely to fall behind on their shots.
[/quote]

yea maybe tetanus and hep b has 1 booster after 18. Nothing close to every few years besides tetanus.

[quote]on edge wrote:

It seems the whole debate would be mute if some grad student would take it up for their thesis. In depth statistical analysis of the populations should give us a hell of a lot of information about the effectiveness and risks of different vaccines.[/quote]

Its not that the info isn’t available or published, its that people are delusional.

[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I’m pretty sure those Autistic kids are just faking it.[/quote]

lol what autism kids? there are no autism kids related to vaccines.