[quote]Rugby_Owns wrote:
there’s a reason pro oly lifters are some of the fastest short distance sprinters. [/quote]
What is that reason?
I’m serious
[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Rugby_Owns wrote:
there’s a reason pro oly lifters are some of the fastest short distance sprinters.
What is that reason?
I’m serious
[/quote]
crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/212309_max.jpg
might have something to do with having a high rate of force development. I would expect someone that can do this…
crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/212309_max.jpg
would be able to smoke your ass in a 50m sprint.
I remember talking about horses in a biomechanics seminar. Basically, they have skinny, long legs to maximize the frequency of their strides. I would think that the thinner and lighter you’re legs are, the greater the stride frequency you can achieve.
That being said, I don’t think you’re going to be able to build your legs to such a degree that this will actually have a significant deleterious effect. Your legs are always going to be essentially “human shaped” no matter how big you make them, just like a horse’s leg is always going to be relatively skinny and long, even if it happens to be a tremendous draft horse. In fact, I’d guess that the increased strength would probably make you a better sprinter.
[quote]danger-kelly wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Rugby_Owns wrote:
there’s a reason pro oly lifters are some of the fastest short distance sprinters.
What is that reason?
I’m serious
crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/212309_max.jpg
might have something to do with having a high rate of force development. I would expect someone that can do this…
crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/212309_max.jpg
would be able to smoke your ass in a 50m sprint.
[/quote]
I assume you are referring to the snatch he just did because he’s not even jumping very high in that photo.
The reason I asked the question in the first place is because I don’t believe that the fact that many elite o-lifters are quick in short sprints proves that o-lifting makes you faster. You also have to take genetics into account.
A few months ago I read an article in a local newspaper about an o-lifter who is training for the olympics. The article included an interview with his coach. In the interview the coach mentioned that the reason he recruited the athlete in the first place was because he saw him at a school athletics meet and noticed that of all the kids there, he was the most explosive and had the best acceleration off the start line. This was before the athlete had even done any weightlifting.
My point is that at the elite level of olympic weightlifting, all of the athletes are fast twitch dominant genetic mutants who would most likely be quite fast in short sprints without even training at all. In addition to that most of them can full squat over 3xbodyweight which is also likely to help in a short sprint.
I feel that it is impossible to tell if the speed of these athletes in short sprints actually has anything to do with the fact that they regularly train the snatch and the C&J.
[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
In addition to that most of them can full squat over 3xbodyweight which is also likely to help in a short sprint.
[/quote]
Bingo.
[quote]triple-10sets wrote:
Would huge arms make someone a good puncher ? They might help, but at they some time it isnt necessary to have 22 inch arms to be a heavy weight boxer. Get my drift ? [/quote]
Same thing, more or less.
Take a boxer and let him do various arm exercises and presses.
If he continues boxing and can cope with the extra work and the greater injury risk, then probably his punches get stronger.
If he acquires extra (muscle) mass on the way, this can be tricky because it can screw with your technique. This should be done slowly which should be no problem for most athletes, given their training output. Sheer bulking (deliberately shooting for a higher weight class) is in most cases very disadvantageous for boxers.
Now this is interesting:
If he stops training and only focuses on weights, his punches will get sloppier, even sloppier then if he stopped boxing and wouldn’t lift any iron at all.
Obviously, this doesn’t apply to beginners. Beginners profit from any exercise and should get stronger and faster at the same time.
What is different from running is that boxing is way more aerobic (it’s not strictly aerobic, but still) while a dash is zero aerobic.
The advantage of big (and potentially strong) muscles will outweigh their disadvantages (weigh literally too much on the long run). On the contrary, increase the distance just a little and you have athletes that profit far more from skinny legs.
[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
danger-kelly wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Rugby_Owns wrote:
there’s a reason pro oly lifters are some of the fastest short distance sprinters.
What is that reason?
I’m serious
crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/212309_max.jpg
might have something to do with having a high rate of force development. I would expect someone that can do this…
crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/212309_max.jpg
would be able to smoke your ass in a 50m sprint.
I assume you are referring to the snatch he just did because he’s not even jumping very high in that photo.
The reason I asked the question in the first place is because I don’t believe that the fact that many elite o-lifters are quick in short sprints proves that o-lifting makes you faster. You also have to take genetics into account.
A few months ago I read an article in a local newspaper about an o-lifter who is training for the olympics. The article included an interview with his coach. In the interview the coach mentioned that the reason he recruited the athlete in the first place was because he saw him at a school athletics meet and noticed that of all the kids there, he was the most explosive and had the best acceleration off the start line. This was before the athlete had even done any weightlifting.
My point is that at the elite level of olympic weightlifting, all of the athletes are fast twitch dominant genetic mutants who would most likely be quite fast in short sprints without even training at all. In addition to that most of them can full squat over 3xbodyweight which is also likely to help in a short sprint.
I feel that it is impossible to tell if the speed of these athletes in short sprints actually has anything to do with the fact that they regularly train the snatch and the C&J.
[/quote]
Good point. Given that I’m a lazy ass, does anyone know of a study supporting the olympic lifts and their effect on short-distance sprinting?
[quote]danger-kelly wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
danger-kelly wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Rugby_Owns wrote:
there’s a reason pro oly lifters are some of the fastest short distance sprinters.
What is that reason?
I’m serious
crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/212309_max.jpg
might have something to do with having a high rate of force development. I would expect someone that can do this…
crossfitrockford.typepad.com/crossfit_rockford/images/212309_max.jpg
would be able to smoke your ass in a 50m sprint.
I assume you are referring to the snatch he just did because he’s not even jumping very high in that photo.
The reason I asked the question in the first place is because I don’t believe that the fact that many elite o-lifters are quick in short sprints proves that o-lifting makes you faster. You also have to take genetics into account.
A few months ago I read an article in a local newspaper about an o-lifter who is training for the olympics. The article included an interview with his coach. In the interview the coach mentioned that the reason he recruited the athlete in the first place was because he saw him at a school athletics meet and noticed that of all the kids there, he was the most explosive and had the best acceleration off the start line. This was before the athlete had even done any weightlifting.
My point is that at the elite level of olympic weightlifting, all of the athletes are fast twitch dominant genetic mutants who would most likely be quite fast in short sprints without even training at all. In addition to that most of them can full squat over 3xbodyweight which is also likely to help in a short sprint.
I feel that it is impossible to tell if the speed of these athletes in short sprints actually has anything to do with the fact that they regularly train the snatch and the C&J.
Good point. Given that I’m a lazy ass, does anyone know of a study supporting the olympic lifts and their effect on short-distance sprinting?
[/quote]
http://apt.allenpress.com/perlserv/?request=get-abstract&doi=10.1519%2FR-14083.1&ct=1
Tricoli, V., L. Lamas, R. Carnevale, and C. Ugrinowitsch. Short-term effects on lower-body functional power development: Weightlifting vs. vertical jump training programs. J. Strength Cond. Res. 19(2):433�??437. 2005.�??Among sport conditioning coaches, there is considerable discussion regarding the efficiency of training methods that improve lower-body power. Heavy resistance training combined with vertical jump (VJ) training is a well-established training method; however, there is a lack of information about its combination with Olympic weightlifting (WL) exercises. Therefore, the purpose of this study was to compare the short-term effects of heavy resistance training combined with either the VJ or WL program. Thirty-two young men were assigned to 3 groups: WL = 12, VJ = 12, and control = 8. These 32 men participated in an 8-week training study. The WL training program consisted of 3 �? 6RM high pull, 4 �? 4RM power clean, and 4 �? 4RM clean and jerk. The VJ training program consisted of 6 �? 4 double-leg hurdle hops, 4 �? 4 alternated single-leg hurdle hops, 4 �? 4 single-leg hurdle hops, and 4 �? 4 40-cm drop jumps. Additionally, both groups performed 4 �? 6RM half-squat exercises. Training volume was increased after 4 weeks. Pretesting and posttesting consisted of squat jump (SJ) and countermovement jump (CMJ) tests, 10- and 30-m sprint speeds, an agility test, a half-squat 1RM, and a clean-and-jerk 1RM (only for WL). The WL program significantly increased the 10-m sprint speed (p < 0.05). Both groups, WL and VJ, increased CMJ (p < 0.05), but groups using the WL program increased more than those using the VJ program. On the other hand, the group using the VJ program increased its 1RM half-squat strength more than the WL group (47.8 and 43.7%, respectively). Only the WL group improved in the SJ (9.5%). There were no significant changes in the control group. In conclusion, Olympic WL exercises seemed to produce broader performance improvements than VJ exercises in physically active subjects.
I saw this video on the crossfit website the other day, http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/CrossFitJournal_NicoleNutritionTeeterPre1.wmv. It talks a lot about nutrition, but there is a part in it with this pyramid the girl called something about the development of an athlete which I found interesting. The base of the pyramid was nutrition, then metabolic conditioning, then gymnastics, then weight lifting, and sport at the top.
Its not surprising that elite, high-level atheletes can perform well in sports-related activities, like sprinting that might not be what they compete in. They generally eat right, are well conditioned, and strong, not to mention genetically gifted all around.
However, a sprinter might practice getting off the blocks quick, run sprints, and devote a lot of his weightlifting to increasing explosive power. An olympic lifter will work on his form to ensure that all his work output is going to getting the bar where it needs to be efficiently and practice generally explosive, fast lifts. The actual sport differs, but the training is similar.
But in short, if you are eating and training like a football player, you’re legs will probably get bigger but they should be making you a better football player in general. If you want to be faster, incorporate some sprint training and olympic lifts into your workout.
I thought that pyramid idea was cool, makes perfect sense but I never really thought if it that way.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
triple-10sets wrote:
Would huge arms make someone a good puncher ? They might help, but at they some time it isnt necessary to have 22 inch arms to be a heavy weight boxer. Get my drift ?
Same thing, more or less.
Take a boxer and let him do various arm exercises and presses.
If he continues boxing and can cope with the extra work and the greater injury risk, then probably his punches get stronger.
If he acquires extra (muscle) mass on the way, this can be tricky because it can screw with your technique. This should be done slowly which should be no problem for most athletes, given their training output. Sheer bulking (deliberately shooting for a higher weight class) is in most cases very disadvantageous for boxers.
Now this is interesting:
If he stops training and only focuses on weights, his punches will get sloppier, even sloppier then if he stopped boxing and wouldn’t lift any iron at all.
Obviously, this doesn’t apply to beginners. Beginners profit from any exercise and should get stronger and faster at the same time.
What is different from running is that boxing is way more aerobic (it’s not strictly aerobic, but still) while a dash is zero aerobic.
The advantage of big (and potentially strong) muscles will outweigh their disadvantages (weigh literally too much on the long run). On the contrary, increase the distance just a little and you have athletes that profit far more from skinny legs.
[/quote]
Schwarzfahrer nothing personal but ur talking out of ur ass. The real power behind a punch comes from your legs, and twisting of your hips, and back.
Don’t believe me… take heavy punching bag and sit down and punch without twisting your body. Only thrusting your arm.
Then stand up, put your wieght on your toes, and punch.
With regards to O’weightlifting. The Snatch and the Clean, in addition to the quads, they involve a lot of hamstring, glute/hip movement and power developed in a very short amount of time. Especially in the Snatch which require you to send the bar up higher.
Moreover, O’lifters do a lot of RDLs, Snatch/Clean Pulls, PowerSnatch/Clean, in addition to all the Front, Back, Overhead Squatting.
Oh and one more thing, the Olympic style ATG squat is NOT the same as parallel squat where u push ur ass back. It involves a lot more glute strenght to get out of the bottom.
Also, u can’t compare a Leg Press, leg extension, and other machine crap to an ATG Squat. U can Leg Press 4 plates on each side and not Squat 225lbs ATG.
my2cents
[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
triple-10sets wrote:
Would huge arms make someone a good puncher ? They might help, but at they some time it isnt necessary to have 22 inch arms to be a heavy weight boxer. Get my drift ?
Same thing, more or less.
Take a boxer and let him do various arm exercises and presses.
If he continues boxing and can cope with the extra work and the greater injury risk, then probably his punches get stronger.
If he acquires extra (muscle) mass on the way, this can be tricky because it can screw with your technique. This should be done slowly which should be no problem for most athletes, given their training output. Sheer bulking (deliberately shooting for a higher weight class) is in most cases very disadvantageous for boxers.
Now this is interesting:
If he stops training and only focuses on weights, his punches will get sloppier, even sloppier then if he stopped boxing and wouldn’t lift any iron at all.
Obviously, this doesn’t apply to beginners. Beginners profit from any exercise and should get stronger and faster at the same time.
What is different from running is that boxing is way more aerobic (it’s not strictly aerobic, but still) while a dash is zero aerobic.
The advantage of big (and potentially strong) muscles will outweigh their disadvantages (weigh literally too much on the long run). On the contrary, increase the distance just a little and you have athletes that profit far more from skinny legs.
Kelly nothing personal but ur talking out of ur ass. The real power behind a punch comes from your legs, and twisting of your hips, and back.
Don’t believe me… take heavy punching bag and sit down and punch without twisting your body. Only thrusting your arm.
Then stand up, put your wieght on your toes, and punch.
With regards to O’weightlifting. The Snatch and the Clean, in addition to the quads, they involve a lot of hamstring, glute/hip movement and power developed in a very short amount of time. Especially in the Snatch which require you to send the bar up higher.
Moreover, O’lifters do a lot of RDLs, Snatch/Clean Pulls, PowerSnatch/Clean, in addition to all the Front, Back, Overhead Squatting.
Oh and one more thing, the Olympic style ATG squat is NOT the same as parallel squat where u push ur ass back. It involves a lot more glute strenght to get out of the bottom.
Also, u can’t compare a Leg Press, leg extension, and other machine crap to an ATG Squat. U can Leg Press 4 plates on each side and not Squat 225lbs ATG.
my2cents[/quote]
ummm… was your post a response to me? … because you hadn’t quoted me… and my post never mentioned boxing… and I’m the only one on this thread with the name “kelly.” oh, and I’m not seeing how I’m talking out of my ass.
Anyways it appears that you’re addressing more than one post or issue in a single post with no clear indication which point is intended for which author. Can you clarify?
LOL!!! Sorry Kelly I confused the posts.
I meant Schwarzfahrer, not you.
yes I am addressing 2 posts. One about the Boxing example, and the 2nd topic about Oly Weightlifting.
I’ll edit my post.