DNP Trip Report

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]Dbol123 wrote:
the benefits of DNP don’t change the risks…

ephedrine may have killed 200 people but its not a fair comparison considering its been used a lot more. I’m sure if you expressed the risk as a percentage of users that die the dnp would be much higher.

the general negative view of DNP is NOT like the negative view of steroids. dnp is virtually unknown to most people and I can’t see any motive for people greatly exaggerating the dangers of the stuff if it was really the “safest” fat burner ever like you claim it is.

ya know… maybe its safer than some people think it is… but you’re talking about it as if the risks were relative to taking a tylenol, or drinking a beer

i hope there isn’t any desperate fat people reading this thread thinking dnp is this magical fat burning substance thats actually safer than ephedrine

[/quote]

Its a wildly misunderstood substance thats for sure. Again Conciliator used to post on here and is somewhat of expert on dnp was writing a book on it so hopefully he comes in here and clears up a lot of info you might have. Again look up some of his research on it and make decision for yourself. This was simply my log showing that I had great success with it and very little sides.-much less then with ephedrine- Many are afraid to even try it due to scare tactics being posted around the web.

22

You shouldn’t worry too much Dbol123, the average fat ass out there looking for magical pills probably would never be able to get their hand on it even if they wanted too anyways! Is dnp POTANTIALLY dangerous, of course it is, but so are thousands of other drugs people use all around us everyday. You should see some of the meds i’ve taken for my Crohn’s disease, dnp is candy compared to them! I work in a youth center and you should see some of the meds they give to children, holy shit!

In my first post I said: “But if taken intelligently by a knowledgable user, they can be used without too many problems.” Did I imply in that sentence that anyone should use it? no! Should the average idiot on this board use dnp, no. Should the average guy in here looking to loose a few pounds use it, no. Grow a pair and get some will power and loose weight the old fashion way, by dieting and exercising! But if you have a good experience with drugs and have done your research and you’re an athlete who’s reached a certain level and the benefits outweighs the risks, well then I see no problem. Dnp is demonized like in some dumbass afterschool specials, like the ones where a guy goes on roids and soon enough he goes on raping chicks and finishes it off with a murdering spree! lol

23

[quote]DFRELAT wrote:
You shouldn’t worry too much Dbol123, the average fat ass out there looking for magical pills probably would never be able to get their hand on it even if they wanted too anyways! Is dnp POTANTIALLY dangerous, of course it is, but so are thousands of other drugs people use all around us everyday. You should see some of the meds i’ve taken for my Crohn’s disease, dnp is candy compared to them! I work in a youth center and you should see some of the meds they give to children, holy shit!

In my first post I said: “But if taken intelligently by a knowledgable user, they can be used without too many problems.” Did I imply in that sentence that anyone should use it? no! Should the average idiot on this board use dnp, no. Should the average guy in here looking to loose a few pounds use it, no. Grow a pair and get some will power and loose weight the old fashion way, by dieting and exercising! But if you have a good experience with drugs and have done your research and you’re an athlete who’s reached a certain level and the benefits outweighs the risks, well then I see no problem. Dnp is demonized like in some dumbass afterschool specials, like the ones where a guy goes on roids and soon enough he goes on raping chicks and finishes it off with a murdering spree! lol[/quote]

I agree with this

I have used some various compounds and have been lifting for many years and training and diet are always the most important thing. Yet I was curious about dnp for awhile due to how much negative criticism it gets, did some research and tried it out. I found it works well and the sides were not really that bad. If your a bodybuilder I could see it having good benefit with other compounds to drop fat quick or help get into really low bodyfat range.-which is why its still used by bodybuilders- For average person ofcourse diet and exercise is the way to go always to lose fat.

24

[quote]shizen wrote:
At most, some have speculated that DNP may be carcinogenic based on its phenol backbone. However, the evidence doesn’t support that. DNP is AMES negative for mutagenicity and negative for genotoxicity both in vitro and in vivo. There are no case reports of cancer in the half million or so people who took it in the 1930’s. There is some question about the metabolites of DNP, but what we know about DNP itself is that it’s not an overt carcinogen. The EPA has NOT classified 2,4-dinitrophenol for potential carcinogenicity.

[/quote]

Again you are misinformed.

DNP is ALC POSITIVE for chromosome aberrations. It is a testicular toxin and CONFIRMED MUTAGEN, as is present on its MSDS safety sheet. Amazing, you are insinuating that 500,000 people who took DNP were monitored for cancer in the 1930’s, when cancer was only just starting to be understood in those days. That’s why drugs weren’t assessed for carcinogenicity then, science wasn’t developed enough for it to be a requirement. Back then smoking was good for you right?

Lying and distorting the facts to try and make your case sound better is pretty fucking low.

To follow is some toxicological information on DNP, available to any chemist and required reading before handling such a substance.

25

Dinitrophenol

Human Toxicity Excerpts:

SYMPTOMATOLOGY: 1. MARKED FATIGUE, TREMENDOUS THIRST, PROFUSE SWEATING, FLUSHING OF FACE. 2. NAUSEA, VOMITING, ABDOMINAL PAIN AND OCCASIONALLY DIARRHEA. 3. RESTLESSNESS, ANXIETY, EXCITEMENT, OCCASIONALLY LEADING TO CONVULSIONS. 4. A RISE IN BODY TEMPERATURE, WHICH IS ROUGHLY PROPORTIONAL TO THE TOXIC DOSE, MAY CULMINATE IN SEVERE HYPERPYREXIA. 5. TACHYCARDIA, HYPERPNEA, DYSPNEA, CYANOSIS AND SOMETIMES MUSCLE CRAMPS. 6. LOSS OF CONSCIOUSNESS, CESSATION OF BREATHING AND DEATH. 7. LATE COMPLICATIONS: A. DECR URINE OUTPUT WITH ALBUMINURIA, CASTS, PIGMENT, SOMETIMES BLOOD CELLS, DUE TO TOXIC NEPHRITIS. B. JAUNDICE & TENDERNESS IN LIVER REGION DUE TO TOXIC HEPATITIS. 8. OCCASIONAL HYPERSENSITIVITY REACTIONS AFTER REPEATED EXPOSURES (OR IN CHRONIC POISONING) INCLUDE AGRANULOCYTIC ANGINA, SKIN RASHES, PERIPHERAL /NEUROPATHY/ … AND CATARACT FORMATION. /DINITROPHENOL/
[Osol, A. (ed.). Remington’s Pharmaceutical Sciences. 16th ed. Easton, Pennsylvania: Mack Publishing Co., 1980., p. III-157] PEER REVIEWED

IN ACUTE INDUSTRIAL POISONING, NYSTAGMUS /INVOLUNTARY RAPID MOVEMENT OF THE EYE/ … SAID TO BE PRESENT IN CASES OF MODERATE POISONING, & DILATED PUPILS WERE NOTED IN SEVERE CASES WITH POOR PROGNOSIS.
[Grant, W.M. Toxicology of the Eye. 3rd ed. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas Publisher, 1986., p. 358] PEER REVIEWED

In a poisoned person, the result is an almost immediate incr in oxygen consumption, body temp, breathing rate, and heart rate. Because circulation and resp do not accelerate in proportion to the metabolic demand, anoxia and acidosis develop. … It is a milder corrosive to skin and mucous membranes than phenol, but concentrated soln have produced corrosion of the oropharyngeal, esophageal and gastric mucous membranes. It exerts direct actions on the cerebrum and lower brain centers, consisting of stimulation followed by depression. In the kidney, it may produce necrotizing tubular injury. If the acute phase of poisoning is survived, the patient usually tolerates later complications, which may include renal insufficiency and toxic hepatitis. The fulminating type of poisoning is characterized by sudden onset, severe symptoms, and prompt death (within 24 hours). Death is due to resp or circulatory collapse, especially the former. Many factors undoubtedly contribute to this collapse, notably hyperpyrexia, … dehydration, muscle rigor (due to heat and/or lactic acid), and occasionally pulmonary edema. … In subacute poisoning due to repeated daily exposures, some individuals complain of lassitude, headache, and malaise, while others experience a disarming sense of well-being, energy, and drive. /Dinitrophenol/
[Gosselin, R.E., R.P. Smith, H.C. Hodge. Clinical Toxicology of Commercial Products. 5th ed. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1984., p. III-157] PEER REVIEWED

ESTIMATES OF INCIDENCE OF CATARACTS AMONG PEOPLE TAKING DINITROPHENOL FOR REDUCING /WEIGHT/ VARIED FROM 0.1% TO 1%. ONSET OF CATARACT OCCURRED SEVERAL MO AFTER DRUG HAD BEEN USED. CATARACTS WERE OF UNIFORM SORT OCCURRING IN BOTH EYES, APPEARING FIRST IN ANTERIOR CORTEX AS FINE GRAY CLOUDY OPACITIES ASSOCIATED WITH A SPOTTY LUSTERLESS APPEARANCE OF THE ANTERIOR LENS CAPSULE. IN POSTERIOR CORTEX, GOLDEN GRANULAR OPACITIES APPEARED, WITH POLYCHROMATIC SPECULAR REFLECTIONS. WITH RAPID PROGRESS OF THE CATARACT, THE LENSES BECAME SWOLLEN & EMBRYONIC SUTURE LINES WERE SEPARATED BY DARK CLEFTS. SOON THE WHOLE LENS BECAME OPAQUE WITH MATURE CATARACT. /SRP: NO LONGER USED AS A MEDICINE IN THE USA./
[Grant, W.M. Toxicology of the Eye. 3rd ed. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas Publisher, 1986., p. 358] PEER REVIEWED

/IN ACUTE POISONING FROM INGESTION/ SKIN BECOMES HOT & FLUSHED, & PROFUSE PERSPIRATION, INTENSE THIRST, SEVERE HEADACHE, NAUSEA, VOMITING, ABDOMINAL PAIN, RESTLESSNESS, ANXIETY, DELIRIUM, & GENERALIZED WEAKNESS OCCUR. EXCESSIVE HYPERPYREXIA, ACIDOSIS, & DEHYDRATION MAY BE FOLLOWED BY CIRCULATORY OR RESP COLLAPSE & DEATH.
[Clayton, G.D., F.E. Clayton (eds.) Patty’s Industrial Hygiene and Toxicology. Volumes 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E, 2F: Toxicology. 4th ed. New York, NY: John Wiley & Sons Inc., 1993-1994., p. 977] PEER REVIEWED

/FORMER/ TYPICAL TREATMENT REGIMEN FOR WT CONTROL CONSISTED OF 1 CAPSULE CONTAINING 75 MG OF 2,4-DINITROPHENOL OR 100 MG OF THE SODIUM SALT TAKEN 3 TIMES DAILY AFTER MEALS (2-5 MG/KG/DAY). … NINE DEATHS /REPORTED AS/ RESULTING FROM USE OF DINITROPHENOL AS WT REDUCING AGENT. /SRP: NOT IN CURRENT USE IN THE USA./
[National Research Council. Drinking Water & Health, Volume 4. Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1981., p. 237] PEER REVIEWED

Hematologic alterations in humans resulting from 2,4-dinitrophenol exposure include hemolytic anemia, neutropenia, and eosinophilia.
[USEPA; Chemical Hazard Information Profile: 2,4-Dinitrophenol p.5 (1981) EPA-560/2-76-010] PEER REVIEWED

… 27 REPORTED CASES OF FATAL OCCUPATIONAL DINITROPHENOL POISONING IN UNITED STATES BETWEEN 1914 & 1916. … TWO CASES OF DINITROPHENOL POISONING DURING MFR OF PICRIC ACID, WHEN 2,4-DINITROPHENOL WAS PRODUCED AS INTERMEDIATE.
[National Research Council. Drinking Water & Health, Volume 4. Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1981., p. 237] PEER REVIEWED

DUST: POISONOUS IF INHALED OR IF SKIN IS EXPOSED. SOLID: POISONOUS IF SWALLOWED. LIQ OR SOLID IRRITANT CHARACTERISTICS: CAUSES SMARTING OF SKIN & FIRST-DEGREE BURNS ON SHORT EXPOSURE; MAY CAUSE SECOND-DEGREE BURNS ON LONG EXPOSURE.
[U.S. Coast Guard, Department of Transportation. CHRIS - Hazardous Chemical Data. Volume II. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1984-5.] PEER REVIEWED

DUST & VAPOR OF DINITROPHENOL … REPORTED TO BE IRRITATING TO MUCOUS MEMBRANE IN INDUSTRIAL EXPOSURE, BUT NO CONTACT INJURIES … REPORTED.
[Grant, W.M. Toxicology of the Eye. 3rd ed. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas Publisher, 1986., p. 358] PEER REVIEWED

2,4-Dinitrophenol causes maculopapular dermatitis.
[ITII. Toxic and Hazarous Industrial Chemicals Safety Manual. Tokyo, Japan: The International Technical Information Institute, 1982., p. 198] PEER REVIEWED

FIRST-DEGREE BURNS ON SHORT EXPOSURE; MAY CAUSE SECOND-DEGREE BURNS ON LONG EXPOSURE.
[U.S. Coast Guard, Department of Transportation. CHRIS - Hazardous Chemical Data. Volume II. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1984-5.] PEER REVIEWED

Dermatitis may be due to either primary irritation or allergic sensitivity.
[Sittig, M. Handbook of Toxic And Hazardous Chemicals. Park Ridge, NJ: Noyes Data Corporation, 1981., p. 185] PEER REVIEWED

2,4-Dinitrophenol signs and symptoms are fever/hyperthemia (increased metabolic rate), skin discoloration (pseudojaundice), acidosis (metabolic, delayed), hypotension, cataract (subcapsular), hearing impairment (delayed).
[Kimbrough, R.D., P. Grandjean, D.D. Rutstein. Clinical Effects of Environmental Chemicals. New York, NY: Hemisphere Publishing Corp., 1989., p. 20] PEER REVIEWED

Administration of 2,4-dinitrophenol does not lead to the production of methemoglobin, whereas administration of the 2,3-, 2,5-, 2,6-, and 3,4-isomers does.
[Hayes, Wayland J., Jr. Pesticides Studied in Man. Baltimore/London: Williams and Wilkins, 1982., p. 463] PEER REVIEWED

Human Toxicity Values:
Lethal doses for orally ingested 2,4-dinitrophenol in humans have been reported to be 14 to 43 mg/kg … .
[National Research Council. Drinking Water & Health, Volume 4. Washington, DC: National Academy Press, 1981., p. 237] PEER REVIEWED

FATAL DOSE IN ADULTS IS ABOUT 1 TO 3 G BY MOUTH; 3 G HAS ALSO PROVED FATAL IN DIVIDED DOSES OVER A PERIOD OF 5 DAYS. /DINITROPHENOL/
[Gosselin, R.E., R.P. Smith, H.C. Hodge. Clinical Toxicology of Commercial Products. 5th ed. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1984., p. III-157] PEER REVIEWED

Skin, Eye and Respiratory Irritations:
… LIQ OR SOLID IRRITANT CHARACTERISTICS: CAUSES SMARTING OF SKIN.
[U.S. Coast Guard, Department of Transportation. CHRIS - Hazardous Chemical Data. Volume II. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1984-5.] PEER REVIEWED

A skin irritant.
[Lewis, R.J. Sax’s Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials. 9th ed. Volumes 1-3. New York, NY: Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1996., p. 1381] PEER REVIEWED

Dust and vapor of dinitrophenol have been reported to be irritating to mucous membrane in industrial exposure … . /Dinitrophenol/
[Grant, W.M. Toxicology of the Eye. 3rd ed. Springfield, IL: Charles C. Thomas Publisher, 1986., p. 359] PEER REVIEWED

Drug Warnings:
Use of 2,4-dinitrophenol as a human dieting aid has produced some cases of agranulocytosis, neuritis, and functional heart damage. … /Former use/
[Horner WD; Arch Ophthamol 27: 1097 (1942)] PEER REVIEWED

Medical Surveillance:
Physical examinations of exposed personnel every six months, including studies of liver and kidney function.
[ITII. Toxic and Hazarous Industrial Chemicals Safety Manual. Tokyo, Japan: The International Technical Information Institute, 1982., p. 199] PEER REVIEWED

In exposed workers, blood concentration of /dinitro-derivatives/ should not exceed 10 ug/g. A white cell count should be performed if the exposed person has an unexplained persistent fever. Individuals who have a fall in white blood cell counts should avoid further exposure. /Dinitro-derivatives/
[Dreisbach, R.H. Handbook of Poisoning. 11th ed. Los Altos, CA: Lange Medical Publications. 1983., p. 127] PEER REVIEWED

Consider skin, eyes, thyroid, blood, central nervous system, liver and kidney function, as well as general health in placement and periodic examination. Dinitrophenols can be measured in urine as such or as an aminophenol.
[Sittig, M. Handbook of Toxic and Hazardous Chemicals and Carcinogens, 1985. 2nd ed. Park Ridge, NJ: Noyes Data Corporation, 1985., p. 378] PEER REVIEWED

/Workers/ regularly exposed to dinitrophenol should have their urine tested regularly for dinitrophenol or amino-nitrophenol by polarography or Derrien’s test. /Dinitrophenol/
[International Labour Office. Encyclopedia of Occupational Health and Safety. Vols. I&II. Geneva, Switzerland: International Labour Office, 1983., p. 637] PEER REVIEWED

Populations at Special Risk:
Protect from exposure those individuals with thyroid, liver, or kidney diseases.
[ITII. Toxic and Hazarous Industrial Chemicals Safety Manual. Tokyo, Japan: The International Technical Information Institute, 1982., p. 199] PEER REVIEWED

Workers with renal or hepatic disease /are/ particularly susceptible … /to 2,4-dinitrophenol/.
[USEPA; Chemical Hazard Information Profile: 2,4-Dinitrophenol p.3 (1981) EPA 560/2-76-010] PEER REVIEWED

TOXIC EFFECTS OF DINITROPHENOL ARE MOST SEVERE IN PEOPLE IN HOT WORKPLACES.
[International Labour Office. Encyclopedia of Occupational Health and Safety. Vols. I&II. Geneva, Switzerland: International Labour Office, 1983., p. 636] PEER REVIEWED

Probable Routes of Human Exposure:
Percutaneous absorption and inhalation of dust and vapors.
[Sittig, M. Handbook of Toxic and Hazardous Chemicals and Carcinogens, 1985. 2nd ed. Park Ridge, NJ: Noyes Data Corporation, 1985., p. 377] PEER REVIEWED

Chemical indicator makers, dye makers, explosive workers, herbicide workers, organic chemical synthesizers, photographic developer makers and wood preservative workers are possibly exposed to 2,4-dinitrophenol.
[Sittig, M. Handbook of Toxic And Hazardous Chemicals. Park Ridge, NJ: Noyes Data Corporation, 1981., p. 185] PEER REVIEWED

Occupational exposure to 2,4-dinitrophenol may occur through inhalation and dermal contact with this compound at workplaces where 2,4-dinitrophenol is produced or used. The general population may be exposed to 2,4-dinitrophenol via inhalation of ambient air and ingestion of contaminated water. (SRC)
PEER REVIEWED

26

And amazingly, the literature also states that DNP is AMES POSTIVE for mutagenicity.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~8GDMNu:2

The studies that show AMES negative results were performed and paid for by the japanese chemical industry. There’s no conflict of interest there right? I knew you were a fucking fool, and you’re an irresponsible prick for spreading bullshit you found on google. You can lap up all the DNP you want as far as I care, but anyone with half a brain can see through this crap your posting. I actually despair that people like you exist.

27

DNP is Ames negative, and does not promote tumors. See for yourself at http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/

Technical Air Pollution Resources | US EPA reports on health risks. While there have not been human studies, animal studies found no cancers caused by DNP administration. It is considered a toxin because it causes nausea, sweating, and weight loss.

DNP and Bodybuilding, Dinitrophenol Information reports on halth risks from external exposue. In other words, don�t get it in your eyes, or on your skin if you�re allergic. Pretty elementary stuff.

http://www.ebec2000.com/abstracts/056.htm This animal study documents a 64% increase in metabolism. “These findings confirm that DNP effectively increases metabolic rate…” Duh.

Antibodies | Thermo Fisher Scientific - US A PDF file about an antidote to DNP.

http://www.boehringer-ingelheim.es/...glesa/cap13.htm finds that DNP did not activate liver enzymes (MAT) associated with liver damage

“Comparative study of toxicity of 4-nitrophenol and 2,4-dinitrophenol in newborn and young rats.” Koizumi M, Yamamoto Y, Ito Y, Takano M, Enami T, Kamata E, Hasegawa R. Division of Risk Assessment, National Institute of Health Sciences, 1-18-1 Kamiyoga, Setagaya-ku, Tokyo 158-8501, Japan. This study found that DNP can induce death in overdosed amounts, but that up to that point no toxicity was evident, nor were there any abnormalities in physical development.

“Phenol toxicity and conjugation in human colonic epithelial cells.” Pedersen G, Brynskov J, Saermark T. Dept of Medical Gastroenterology, Herlev University Hospital, Copenhagen, Denmark… This study found that DNP has a toxic effect on cells of the colon, with “toxic” defined in two ways: first, it interfered with metabolism (this we know�it�s the intended effect of DNP users!) and second, it interfered with bowel inflammation (not a health risk. This is caused by osmotic effect, with the worst results being softened stools and gas).

“Mechanisms of bacterial resistance to macrolide antibiotics.” Nakajima Y. Division of Microbiology, Hokkaido College of Pharmacy, 7-1 Katsuraoka-cho, Otaru, Hokkaido 047-0264, Japan. This study found that antibiotic-resistant bacteria could be thwarted with DNP. “the extent of the accumulated drug in a resistant cell increases as much as that in a susceptible cell in the presence of an uncoupling agent such as�2,4-dinitrophenol (DNP).”

“Absence of Crabtree effect in human melanoma cells adapted to growth at low pH: reversal by respiratory inhibitors.” Burd R, Wachsberger PR, Biaglow JE, Wahl ML, Lee I, Leeper DB. Departments of Radiation Oncology, Kimmel Cancer Center, Thomas Jefferson University, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19107, USA. Check this out�DNP actually helps make melanoma tumors easier to attack by increasing ratio of oxygen consumption to lactic acid production, while glycolysis remains the same. “Therefore, tumor acute acidification and oxygenation can be achieved by exposure�”

“New insights in the cellular processing of platinum antitumor compounds, using fluorophore-labeled platinum complexes and digital fluorescence microscopy.”
Molenaar C, Teuben JM, Heetebrij RJ, Tanke HJ, Reedijk J. Department of Molecular Cell Biology, Leiden University Medical Centre, The Netherlands. DNP is used as a control in tests of antitumor cells because it does NOT bind to cell DNA, nor promote tumors, yet its staining abilities enable tracking of the uptake of antitumor drugs.

Specific inhibition of breast cancer cells by antisense poly-DNP-oligoribonucleotides and targeted apoptosis." Ru K, Taub ML, Wang JH. Department of Biochemistry, State University of New York, Buffalo 14260-3000, USA Are you ready for this? DNP actually INHIBITS (!!!) breast cancers! Yes, not only does it NOT promote cancers, it�s being recognized as a cancer-fighter/blocker. “Two membrane-permeable and RNase-resistant antisense poly-2’-O-(2,4-dinitrophenyl)-oligoribonucleotides (poly-DNP-RNAs) have been synthesized as inhibitors of human breast cancer�fluorescence assay indicates that the targeted antisense inhibition by poly-DNP-RNAs leads to apoptosis of SK-Br-3 cells but does not affect nontumorigenic MCF-10A cells. The control poly-DNP-RNAs with random or sense nucleotide sequence are completely inactive.” Plain English? DNP can be synthesized as an anti-cancer compound, because tests show that it blocks mutagens but does NOT affect non-mutagenic (healthy) cells, and has no RNA effects on them.

“Heat shock protein induction by certain chemical stressors is correlated with their cytotoxicity, lipophilicity and protein-denaturing capacity.” Neuhaus-Steinmetz U, Rensing L. Institute of Cell Biology, Biochemistry and Biotechnology, NW II University of Bremen, Germany. The thermic effect of DNP induces protein synthesis (heat shock protein, or HSP, synthesis). In fact, it�s quite GOOD at it: “ASA, DNP and CCCP induced HSP at lower concentrations than substances with a similar lipophilicity�”

“Comparative effects of the metabolic inhibitors 2,4-dinitrophenol and iodoacetate on mouse neuroblastoma cells in vitro.” Andres MI, Repetto G, Sanz P, Repetto M.
National Institute of Toxicology, Seville, Spain. In this study, DNP�s observed effect was an increase in metabolism (duh!), while the other toxins compared to it had harmful in vitro effects but no increase in metabolism.

“Inhibition of uncoupled respiration in tumor cells. A possible role of mitochondrial Ca2+ efflux.” Gabai VL.Medical Radiology Research Center, Russian Academy of Medical Sciences, Obninsk. DNP not only does not cause tumors, but it inhibited their respiration by 20-25% compared to controls.

“Amsacrine-induced lesions in DNA and their modulation by novobiocin and 2,4-dinitrophenol.” Shibuya ML, Buddenbaum WE, Don AL, Utsumi H, Suciu D, Kosaka T, Elkind MM. Department of Radiology and Radiation Biology, Colorado State University, Fort Collins 80523. In this study, researchers found that DNP abrogates�or disrupts�cytotoxicity in hamsters (using cancerous cells). They expected to find that DNP would interfere with anticancer treatments, but instead found that DNP increased their effects. They state, though, that they cannot claim a proven effect of DNP on anticancer treatments yet, although they do agree that treatment with DNP actually enhanced the effects of the DNA regenerative therapy of anticancer chemotherapy.

“Induction of endonucleolytic DNA cleavage in human acute myelogenous leukemia cells by etoposide, camptothecin, and other cytotoxic anticancer drugs: a cautionary note.” Kaufmann SH. Oncology Center, Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, Maryland 21205. The authors warn that certain anti-leukemia drugs resulted in “extensive DNA degradation.” BUT (good ol� DNP to the rescue!), “Preincubation with dinitrophenol abolished the effect�”

“[Dependence of the nature of the action of metabolic inhibitors on ribosomal RNA synthesis in Ehrlich ascites carcinoma cells on cell integrity]” [Article in Russian] Akhlynina TV, Buzhurina IM, Panov MA, Rozovskaia IA, Chernaia NG. DNP actually inhibits the synthesis of RNA in carcinoma cells. In other words, it helps cancerous cells commit suicide by neutering themselves. “Ribosomal RNA (rRNA) synthesis in the intact Ehrlich ascite carcinoma cells is selectively inhibited by papaverin (ED50 = 0.01 mM), 2,4-dinitrophenol (DPN; ED50 = 5 microM), and actinomycin D (ED50 = 0.1 microgram/ml).”

“Autocatabolism of surface macromolecules shed by human melanoma cells.” Bystryn JC, Perlstein J. Cancer Res 1982 Jun;42(6):2232-7. This study finds that DNP helps melanoma cells die (autocatabolize) while other cells are unaffected.

Yahoo | Mail, Weather, Search, Politics, News, Finance, Sports & Videos - tons of research, including medical studies. Excerpts:

DNP does not cause liver damage: “Their analyses demonstrate, beyond a doubt, that the liver does not suffer any damage in the course of dinitro treatment.” (Biological Study of Dinitro Drugs in Humans By Dr. Jacques Bell. Bell, Jacques. 1939. Etude biologique des produits dinitres chez l’homme. Medecine. 19:749-54. Translation � 1996 Robert Ames)

Also: “Experimental studies on animals do not show toxic effects of dinitrophenol on the kidney. Anatomical-pathological examinations of animals, even those which died from a massive dose of dinitrophenol, do not reveal any important anatomical changes, except a small degree of cytolysis. Clinical documents are not abundant, but, on the whole, do not seem to demonstrate that dinitrophenol is toxic for the kidneys.”

“Dinitrophenol has almost no action on the blood cholesterol. (Grant and Schube).”

“it doesn’t seem that dinitrophenol at usual clinical doses is likely to harm the kidneys.”

“Dinitrophenol is remarkable for its absence of effect on the cardio-vascular system…dinitrophenol is absolutely devoid of toxicity for the heart.”

“Dinitrophenol does not attack cell tissue albumin and does not determine the fat loss to the expense of the muscles, contrary to thyroxine.”

“dinitrophenol offers this precious advantage that the cessation of its use at the slightest appearance of signs indicating an imminence of intoxication results immediately in the arrest of those symptoms.” (Professor Pouchet)."

Interestingly, one medical theory on a health ADVANTAGE of DNP is that the slight increase in thermogenic temperature simulates the fever a body induces during a viral attack. The body increases itsheat to protect organs but kill viruses, and some theorize that DNP can do the same thing, thus killing viruses in the body. In this mechanism, DNP may have an immune-enhancing effect.

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I see you can cut and paste irrelevant information and are simply grasping at straws. None of the references you posted are even remotely relevant.

And I especially like the way that the link to the final reference that you quote from doesn’t work because you are cut and pasting it without reason. Its all well and good to pick a sentence here and there that you think sounds good, but you are utterly incapable of holding two facts together in your memory at any one time.

The health advantage of DNP is it induces a fever during a viral attack? Again you lack basic understanding in biology. The body raises its temperature to disrupt the functioning of the enzymes in infectious agents, in order to allow the IMMUNE SYSTEM to deal with it.

If you had read any of the references available on DNP, including the information I just posted, you would know that it has a well documented destructive effect on neutrophils and other immune system cells. So your fever theory is, as I’ve come to expect from you, the ramblings of a monkey who has been given a stack of papers and trained to get a peanut every time it picks one out and starts playing with its balls.

If you are going to post references to support your argument, do it one by one and explain the science behind it, and why you think that it means we should all be on DNP.

Or you can cut and paste like an ADD child in a stationary shop after double dosing on ritalin.

29

here I"ll sum up my points nicely for you

  1. The risks are minimal at reasonable doses. Over 100,000 people took DNP for weight loss in the 1930’s and there have only been a dozen or so deaths reported, almost always from overdose.

  2. DNP is significantly better at burning fat than any other product in existance. A low dose of 200mg/day, with hardly any side effects, will increase metabolic rate on average some 30-33%. That’s huge. DNP is a pure thermogenic.

  3. T3 supplementation is notorious for muscle loss. DNP was shown in all the original studies to be nitrogen (protein) sparing, resulting in only loss of fat mass. This was contrasted to thyroid.

  4. There’s no need to run AAS with DNP to prevent muscle loss, since DNP burns primarily fat. DNP is not muscle wasting. By ramping up AMPK, it probably inhibits protein degredation.

  5. The more DNP you take, the hotter and sweatier you’ll get. This means that you don’t have to be hot and sweaty on it if you keep your dosage low.

  6. It’s smart to stay hydrated, but you don’t need to down X gallons of water per day. Just drink water liberally.

  7. DNP reduces the production of free radicals in the mitochondria, meaning that there is less oxidative stress while you’re taking it and less need for antioxidants. I’d just take a small daily dose of the regulars: C, E, ALA.

  8. No offense to anyone, but those who say DNP is a poison and to not use it for that reason does not understand why it’s called a poison. DNP uncouples oxidative phosphorylation, making energy production less efficient. This means it is a metabolic “poison.” Too much will result in excessive heat production and insufficient energy production, but at low doses, DNP is actually protective. It reduces oxidative stress which shields vulnerable cells from damage. This is why lately there are more and more studies like this. An absolute poison would not be protective at lower concentrations.

  9. There are much more dangerous substances that you can take to lose fat. Take for example usnic acid, which is quite liver toxic. DNP is not toxic to any organs at normal doses.

  10. Comparing psychoactive drugs like Adderall and crystal meth to DNP is like comparing apples to oranges. DNP does not work hormonally. It does not work centrally. It’s method of action is by acting as it’s own protonophone, not by stimualting the body to do anything. If given a choice, I’d take the low-dose DNP. It’s safer.

  11. Traz’s “medical info” on DNP sounds like some embellished MSDS. If you want to learn about it’s toxicity, search for and read the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry’s (ATSDR’s) extensive 262 page Toxicological Profile for dinitrophenols. Or go look at the research in humans by Cutting and Tainer, or Simkins. DNP has not been shown to be liver toxic, kidney toxic, cardio toxic, or cause birth defects. In fact, research in growing animals shows that low doses actually improve developement. To say it is “just so toxic” shows a gross misunderstanding of it.

  12. As said before, you will not cut significant amounts of muscle… not unless you’re taking thyroid along with it (which will) or are running such a high dose (or are so lean) that fat can’t be mobilized fast enough to meet energy demands (a reason to take clen with it). Again, the research is very clear that DNP is antiproteolytic. You should not expect to lose significant amounts of muscle on it.

  13. I would argue that those who feel like “death” while taking it and who are experiencing “sleep deprivation” are taking too much. It never ceases to amaze me that people choose the degree of side effects they experience by the dose they take, and then talk about how bad the drug is. Does it ever occur to people that maybe they should lower the dose, make the sides completely tolerable, yet keep getting the benefits of the drug? This seems like something that only happens with DNP for some reason. You don’t see people running 2g/wk of test saying “man, all the water retention, acne, and balding were just terrible… I’m never running test again.” No, if someone said that, you’d hear “Don’t take so much! Lower dose. Take half that and you’ll still get great results with far fewer sides”. Just do the same thing with DNP.

  14. DNP is not “horrbile”. DNP is not particualrly dangerous if used intelligently.

  15. 200mg/day is definitely enough to “work.” There’s no arbitrary bodyweight where a dose becomes not enough. Research shows that 200mg/day of the powder (or more of the cystal, since it’s not as strong) will result in an average increase in metabolic rate of 30-33%. That’s significant, even if you don’t “feel” it making you want to die Most larger guys will do well at 400mg/day, but it’s something that’s very individual, meaning that 400mg/day may be too much for some people, despite their weight. There’s a lot of variation in personal response and you should start low and increase the dose slowly and carefully.

  16. DNP is not a steroid. It is not hormonal. There is no “recovery” after you go off (except for maybe the common adaptations to dieting that are found with any long term diet). There will be sides though. A good point was made that you must realize there are sides with any drug.

  17. Some may feel that the negatives outweigh the positives on DNP. I agree that this is true at high doses. But I don’t think it’s true at lower doses (200-400mg/day). If used at these doses by a comptetent person, DNP is quite safe, profoundly effective, cheaper than a stack of the best alternative fat burners, and even protective against oxdidative stress.

  18. I wouldn’t use T3 for fat loss unless you’re taking AAS. Supplemental thyroid certainly is muscle wasting.

30

you mean like YOU DID at the bottom of page 1? What a hypocriticizer.

I actually don’t care one way or the other whether people use DNP. Like anything, if it were me, I’d do my best to understand the risks involved and weigh that against the benefit. Simple economics…I want a new TV, is it worth the money? what am I potentially sacrificing by spending my money on a new TV?

At the end of the day I think it matters very little what some of these studies say. One might say DNP has no effect on the liver but you check back 15 years later and people who took DNP are coughing out their livers…or maybe not.

I know of some people who have ran DNP and had great results, and I’ve also heard of ill health effects. One buddy of mine started urinating blood after taking DNP…how much was he taking and for how long? I don’t know. What caused him to piss blood? I don’t know that either…it might not have been the DNP but he sure as hell thought it was.

I’ve got another buddy who is a pro bodybuilder who is currently running DNP and he feels that it’s a remarkable substance that is going to help him get to new levels of lower bodyfat in addition to his diet, cardio and the other drugs that he takes for contest preperation.

I see both sides. I just think it’s stupid for people to get all upset and make disparaging remarks towards each other when the primary purpose of forums like thee is the free exchange of information. If you’ve got some information that says DNP isn’t safe, post it. If you’ve got information that says DNP is safe, post it…no need to call each other mother fuckers in the process…but do what you will with the name calling and do what you will as far as putting shit into your body. It’s YOUR LIFE, live it however you want to live it.

31

[quote]unstable wrote:

you mean like YOU DID at the bottom of page 1? What a hypocriticizer.

I actually don’t care one way or the other whether people use DNP. Like anything, if it were me, I’d do my best to understand the risks involved and weigh that against the benefit. Simple economics…I want a new TV, is it worth the money? what am I potentially sacrificing by spending my money on a new TV?

At the end of the day I think it matters very little what some of these studies say. One might say DNP has no effect on the liver but you check back 15 years later and people who took DNP are coughing out their livers…or maybe not.

I know of some people who have ran DNP and had great results, and I’ve also heard of ill health effects. One buddy of mine started urinating blood after taking DNP…how much was he taking and for how long? I don’t know. What caused him to piss blood? I don’t know that either…it might not have been the DNP but he sure as hell thought it was.

I’ve got another buddy who is a pro bodybuilder who is currently running DNP and he feels that it’s a remarkable substance that is going to help him get to new levels of lower bodyfat in addition to his diet, cardio and the other drugs that he takes for contest preperation.

I see both sides. I just think it’s stupid for people to get all upset and make disparaging remarks towards each other when the primary purpose of forums like thee is the free exchange of information. If you’ve got some information that says DNP isn’t safe, post it. If you’ve got information that says DNP is safe, post it…no need to call each other mother fuckers in the process…but do what you will with the name calling and do what you will as far as putting shit into your body. It’s YOUR LIFE, live it however you want to live it.

[/quote]

I agree I came here posting my experience with dnp, did research on it and found that taking the precautions with proper dose, staying hydrated, good diet and proper supplementation it can be relatively safe. And well it has shown to be the best fat burning substance I have used with the least sides in my experience. The fact is there is simply not a lot of information on the substance. A lot of bodybuilders-especially pros- still use it because it works really well. This particular forum is about using these compounds which are not really studied on humans well with doses bodybuilders take and sharing are experience with how to use it safe.

32

Isn’t what you just did? lol

33

@Shizen
The reception you’re receiving here with some members of T-Nation with regards to DNP could be compared to pre-marital sex on a Christian Forum…Or discussing steroids on a crossfit forum.

Everything has risks. Some of these references calling DNP a poison is because nowadays DNP is not intended to be ingested. You could easily call Tylenol a poison if you take too much of it. Too much of anything is a bad thing. What limited knowledge I have on the subject, I would say for an otherwise healthy adult man, 400mg of DNP is not going to kill you in the short-term. I’ve always been weary of the build-up of DNP and the potential for taking too much that way…especially if you’re pushing the threshold of doing 200, 400, 600, 800…800, 800, 800. The good news is, if you have someone who can rush you to the emergency room and tell the doctors you’re taking DNP there’s a good chance they can save your ass. Everything I’ve read on deaths attributed to DNP, the people were unconscious and the doctors had no idea what they had taken until they performed an autopsy.

Drinking alcohol and taking tylenol will definitely fuck up your liver.
As far as carcinogens, I don’t really want to hear shit about carcinogens because we pump gasoline into our cars everyday and gasoline is a KNOWN carcinogen and we breath the byproduct of that shit to some extent everyday. Additionally they say smoking causes cancer and you’ve got people who smoke until they are 100 and die of “natural causes” and you have people who never smoked in their life dying of lung cancer. You have kids who are 10 years old coming down with brain cancers…nobody knows exactly what is causing this shit…so a little DNP is probably less of a cancer risk than just being alive (IMO).

34

[quote]shizen wrote:
here I"ll sum up my points nicely for you

  1. The risks are minimal at reasonable doses. Over 100,000 people took DNP for weight loss in the 1930’s and there have only been a dozen or so deaths reported, almost always from overdose.

  2. DNP is significantly better at burning fat than any other product in existance. A low dose of 200mg/day, with hardly any side effects, will increase metabolic rate on average some 30-33%. That’s huge. DNP is a pure thermogenic.

  3. T3 supplementation is notorious for muscle loss. DNP was shown in all the original studies to be nitrogen (protein) sparing, resulting in only loss of fat mass. This was contrasted to thyroid.

  4. There’s no need to run AAS with DNP to prevent muscle loss, since DNP burns primarily fat. DNP is not muscle wasting. By ramping up AMPK, it probably inhibits protein degredation.

  5. The more DNP you take, the hotter and sweatier you’ll get. This means that you don’t have to be hot and sweaty on it if you keep your dosage low.

  6. It’s smart to stay hydrated, but you don’t need to down X gallons of water per day. Just drink water liberally.

  7. DNP reduces the production of free radicals in the mitochondria, meaning that there is less oxidative stress while you’re taking it and less need for antioxidants. I’d just take a small daily dose of the regulars: C, E, ALA.

  8. No offense to anyone, but those who say DNP is a poison and to not use it for that reason does not understand why it’s called a poison. DNP uncouples oxidative phosphorylation, making energy production less efficient. This means it is a metabolic “poison.” Too much will result in excessive heat production and insufficient energy production, but at low doses, DNP is actually protective. It reduces oxidative stress which shields vulnerable cells from damage. This is why lately there are more and more studies like this. An absolute poison would not be protective at lower concentrations.

  9. There are much more dangerous substances that you can take to lose fat. Take for example usnic acid, which is quite liver toxic. DNP is not toxic to any organs at normal doses.

  10. Comparing psychoactive drugs like Adderall and crystal meth to DNP is like comparing apples to oranges. DNP does not work hormonally. It does not work centrally. It’s method of action is by acting as it’s own protonophone, not by stimualting the body to do anything. If given a choice, I’d take the low-dose DNP. It’s safer.

  11. Traz’s “medical info” on DNP sounds like some embellished MSDS. If you want to learn about it’s toxicity, search for and read the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry’s (ATSDR’s) extensive 262 page Toxicological Profile for dinitrophenols. Or go look at the research in humans by Cutting and Tainer, or Simkins. DNP has not been shown to be liver toxic, kidney toxic, cardio toxic, or cause birth defects. In fact, research in growing animals shows that low doses actually improve developement. To say it is “just so toxic” shows a gross misunderstanding of it.

  12. As said before, you will not cut significant amounts of muscle… not unless you’re taking thyroid along with it (which will) or are running such a high dose (or are so lean) that fat can’t be mobilized fast enough to meet energy demands (a reason to take clen with it). Again, the research is very clear that DNP is antiproteolytic. You should not expect to lose significant amounts of muscle on it.

  13. I would argue that those who feel like “death” while taking it and who are experiencing “sleep deprivation” are taking too much. It never ceases to amaze me that people choose the degree of side effects they experience by the dose they take, and then talk about how bad the drug is. Does it ever occur to people that maybe they should lower the dose, make the sides completely tolerable, yet keep getting the benefits of the drug? This seems like something that only happens with DNP for some reason. You don’t see people running 2g/wk of test saying “man, all the water retention, acne, and balding were just terrible… I’m never running test again.” No, if someone said that, you’d hear “Don’t take so much! Lower dose. Take half that and you’ll still get great results with far fewer sides”. Just do the same thing with DNP.

  14. DNP is not “horrbile”. DNP is not particualrly dangerous if used intelligently.

  15. 200mg/day is definitely enough to “work.” There’s no arbitrary bodyweight where a dose becomes not enough. Research shows that 200mg/day of the powder (or more of the cystal, since it’s not as strong) will result in an average increase in metabolic rate of 30-33%. That’s significant, even if you don’t “feel” it making you want to die Most larger guys will do well at 400mg/day, but it’s something that’s very individual, meaning that 400mg/day may be too much for some people, despite their weight. There’s a lot of variation in personal response and you should start low and increase the dose slowly and carefully.

  16. DNP is not a steroid. It is not hormonal. There is no “recovery” after you go off (except for maybe the common adaptations to dieting that are found with any long term diet). There will be sides though. A good point was made that you must realize there are sides with any drug.

  17. Some may feel that the negatives outweigh the positives on DNP. I agree that this is true at high doses. But I don’t think it’s true at lower doses (200-400mg/day). If used at these doses by a comptetent person, DNP is quite safe, profoundly effective, cheaper than a stack of the best alternative fat burners, and even protective against oxdidative stress.

  18. I wouldn’t use T3 for fat loss unless you’re taking AAS. Supplemental thyroid certainly is muscle wasting.

[/quote]

Excellent post. Most of what you said is anecdotal “its safe if you are competent”, “don’t take to much and you’ll be ok” bullshit. I see you like to repeat yourself as well. And some other points comparing it to T3? How exactly is T3 relevant to the toxic effects of DNP?

Since you brought up the AMES bioassay results, I’ll disuss them further. There are two conflicting references with regard to the AMES toxicology results. Do you know anything about modern drug development? If you did, you would know that if even ONE research group finds a substance to be AMES positive, then before it is allowed to be ingested by humans in any form as a drug, a long and extensive carcinogenicity assessment MUST be performed, and in all likelyhood the substance WILL not make it to market as a drug.

Why do you think this is? Instead of pasting more crap, why don’t you actually try debating my points with me? The very fact that DNP negatively affects white blood cell counts is further evidence that it exerts toxic effects OTHER than its properties as a metabolic poison. Cataract formation also suggests that there are other poorly understood mechanisms of toxicity at work. If it makes you feel better, then you can keep insisting that its non-toxic, other than its metabolic effects, but you are deluding yourself, and attempting to delude other people in the process which I will not have.

And why do you keep bringing up the thousands of people that took it in the 30’s? Did you not understand what I said about the state of the pharmaceutical industry in those days? Smoking was healthy, cancer was a mystery disease and many mechanisms of toxicity were poorly understood. Take the thalidomide case in the 50’s, a whole branch of bio-chemistry unknown before then became standard practice for pharmaceutical companies the world over, after their blissful ignorance led to the birth of thousands of horribly deformed babies.

What makes either of you two think you are qualified to truly understand the risks? You’re a couple of meathead’s who think that abs are work risking long term DNA damage over.

Whatever happened to good old fashioned dieting and testosterone?

For anyone reading this, if you can’t cut up on gear and the odd OTC fat burner, you need to look at your diet and training a bit harder, NOT start taking DNP.

35

[quote]unstable wrote:
@Shizen
The reception you’re receiving here with some members of T-Nation with regards to DNP could be compared to pre-marital sex on a Christian Forum…Or discussing steroids on a crossfit forum.

Everything has risks. Some of these references calling DNP a poison is because nowadays DNP is not intended to be ingested. You could easily call Tylenol a poison if you take too much of it. Too much of anything is a bad thing. What limited knowledge I have on the subject, I would say for an otherwise healthy adult man, 400mg of DNP is not going to kill you in the short-term. I’ve always been weary of the build-up of DNP and the potential for taking too much that way…especially if you’re pushing the threshold of doing 200, 400, 600, 800…800, 800, 800. The good news is, if you have someone who can rush you to the emergency room and tell the doctors you’re taking DNP there’s a good chance they can save your ass. Everything I’ve read on deaths attributed to DNP, the people were unconscious and the doctors had no idea what they had taken until they performed an autopsy.

Drinking alcohol and taking tylenol will definitely fuck up your liver.
As far as carcinogens, I don’t really want to hear shit about carcinogens because we pump gasoline into our cars everyday and gasoline is a KNOWN carcinogen and we breath the byproduct of that shit to some extent everyday. Additionally they say smoking causes cancer and you’ve got people who smoke until they are 100 and die of “natural causes” and you have people who never smoked in their life dying of lung cancer. You have kids who are 10 years old coming down with brain cancers…nobody knows exactly what is causing this shit…so a little DNP is probably less of a cancer risk than just being alive (IMO).

[/quote]

The cold reception is because of the stupidity of the arguments presented. If either of you had anything intelligent to say other than “everything is a poison, so you can take anything safely as long as you keep the dose low” I would have responded differently.

When you fill your tank with gas, do you put some in a bottle and sip it multiple times daily for months on end? Apparently now, the existence of statistical outliers in people who smoke is PROOF its safe to light up. Pass me the fucking Marlboros bro.

It seems that DNP also has powerful nootropic effects that we were previosuly unaware of.

36

Actually I thought that much more was said than “everything is a poison so you can take anything safely as long as you keep the dose low.” But I’ll try again just so that I can say that I gave my best effort.

With everything there is a risk involved. Let’s use anabolic steroids as an example. If you’re in the United States they are a class C/III substance which puts them on par with cocaine, so if you get popped with steroids, you’re looking at paying out of the nose for a good defense attorney and you’re possibly looking at prison time. Secondly, unless you’ve got some special connections, you’re probably not getting pharmaceutical grade shit, you’re almost definitely not getting pharmaceutical grade shit that was manufactured here in the Good Ol’ USA that meets FDA standards…so now you’ve got sauce of questionable origins. Joey Smuckatelli could be mixing the shit up in his kitchen from chinese powders in a not-so-sterile environment, and how does Joey know the powder from China is 100% pure/sterile…who KNOWS what’s going into that UG labs shit? And it reaches you, where you inject who fucking knows WHAT into your ass cheek. There could be anthrax in that powder for all you know, but it’s a risk you run. You could get an infection, an absess…you could come down with some funky ass disease…but it’s a risk you run along with the legal implications of possessing steroids in the US. The mainstream media would have us believe if you take steroids that you’re going to be like Ben Affleck in the after-school special “A Body to Die For” or Chris Benoit, or you’re going to end up like Lyle Alzado. You’re going to suffer from roid rage and you’re likely to assualt someone. There’s other risks like what if your family found out about your DRUG USE, or what if your employer was aware? What about the damage to your liver in the long run? Or your testicles? Potential for growing titties. There are probably other risks involved that I can’t think of at the moment…

Do people still continue to use steroids given what I’ve just listed? Yes. Why? Because FOR THEM the risks are negligible given the benefits. You can pull up studies showing that steroids do increase aggression and then you can pull up studies that show the opposite. You’re going to have people who have used steroids for 28 years NON STOP who claim their are no ill health effects and you’re going to have people like Lyle Alzado who say steroids caused his inoperable brain cancer. You’re going to have people who will use steroids NO MATTER FUCKING WHAT, and there are people who WILL NEVER TOUCH THE SHIT even if it was proven there are more benefits than risks.

Now apply this to DNP.
There are risks and benefits. Is taking a little DNP going to kill you in the short term? The odds are in your favor that it’s not. Are there long-term consequences to your health? Probably…who fucking knows for sure…just like steroids, there’s no way that putting on an additional 40 lbs.+ of muscle is good for your heart.

Can you “safely” use DNP for the short term to lose fat? in my opinion yes you can. That doesn’t mean that 20 years from now you don’t shit out your liver because you took DNP trying to lose weight.

I gave both sides of the argument. I have one buddy who is using DNP right now and he loves it, he hasn’t fallen over and died…I’ve got another buddy who was pissing blood during a DNP cycle.

Honestly the stuff scares me…like guys using insulin…but guys do it, risk vs. reward.

37

[quote]unstable wrote:
Actually I thought that much more was said than “everything is a poison so you can take anything safely as long as you keep the dose low.” But I’ll try again just so that I can say that I gave my best effort.

With everything there is a risk involved. Let’s use anabolic steroids as an example. If you’re in the United States they are a class C/III substance which puts them on par with cocaine, so if you get popped with steroids, you’re looking at paying out of the nose for a good defense attorney and you’re possibly looking at prison time. Secondly, unless you’ve got some special connections, you’re probably not getting pharmaceutical grade shit, you’re almost definitely not getting pharmaceutical grade shit that was manufactured here in the Good Ol’ USA that meets FDA standards…so now you’ve got sauce of questionable origins. Joey Smuckatelli could be mixing the shit up in his kitchen from chinese powders in a not-so-sterile environment, and how does Joey know the powder from China is 100% pure/sterile…who KNOWS what’s going into that UG labs shit? And it reaches you, where you inject who fucking knows WHAT into your ass cheek. There could be anthrax in that powder for all you know, but it’s a risk you run. You could get an infection, an absess…you could come down with some funky ass disease…but it’s a risk you run along with the legal implications of possessing steroids in the US. The mainstream media would have us believe if you take steroids that you’re going to be like Ben Affleck in the after-school special “A Body to Die For” or Chris Benoit, or you’re going to end up like Lyle Alzado. You’re going to suffer from roid rage and you’re likely to assualt someone. There’s other risks like what if your family found out about your DRUG USE, or what if your employer was aware? What about the damage to your liver in the long run? Or your testicles? Potential for growing titties. There are probably other risks involved that I can’t think of at the moment…

Do people still continue to use steroids given what I’ve just listed? Yes. Why? Because FOR THEM the risks are negligible given the benefits. You can pull up studies showing that steroids do increase aggression and then you can pull up studies that show the opposite. You’re going to have people who have used steroids for 28 years NON STOP who claim their are no ill health effects and you’re going to have people like Lyle Alzado who say steroids caused his inoperable brain cancer. You’re going to have people who will use steroids NO MATTER FUCKING WHAT, and there are people who WILL NEVER TOUCH THE SHIT even if it was proven there are more benefits than risks.

Now apply this to DNP.
There are risks and benefits. Is taking a little DNP going to kill you in the short term? The odds are in your favor that it’s not. Are there long-term consequences to your health? Probably…who fucking knows for sure…just like steroids, there’s no way that putting on an additional 40 lbs.+ of muscle is good for your heart.

Can you “safely” use DNP for the short term to lose fat? in my opinion yes you can. That doesn’t mean that 20 years from now you don’t shit out your liver because you took DNP trying to lose weight.

I gave both sides of the argument. I have one buddy who is using DNP right now and he loves it, he hasn’t fallen over and died…I’ve got another buddy who was pissing blood during a DNP cycle.

Honestly the stuff scares me…like guys using insulin…but guys do it, risk vs. reward.[/quote]

agree

Whether the risks are worth the benefits is a matter of personal choice, depending on an individual’s goals. For some, the profound fat loss is worth the relatively small risk of cataracts, the tiny risk of agranulocytosis, and the miniscule risk of an idiosyncratic tragedy. When the dosage of DNP is properly titrated and body temperature is monitored, the risk of overdosing with a fatal fever is virtually non-existent. When taken carelessly, it’s still rare, but much more likely. DNP is one of the most misunderstood drugs in bodybuilding. The dangers and side effects are grossly overstated. Dan Duchaine put a cautionary spin on DNP that sent it in a certain direction. He probably realized that in the “more is better” world of bodybuilding, he had to be crystal clear about how serious proper dosing is. Ironically, though not surprisingly, bodybuilders have failed miserably in this regard, pushing the envelope, taking dangerous and excessive dosages, and then bltching about the side effects they essentially chose via that dosage. Fortunately, longer low-dose cycles are becoming more popular, in place of the dumb ass “inferno cycles” that were so common. In time, DNP’s reputation will become more objective. For now, it’s shrouded in a mountain of sensationalistic rhetoric.

38

interesting thread…

i admit, there is something else contributing to the negative view I have on this potentially dangerous subtance…

the fact that it does not seem to be necessary for bodybuilding… bodybuilders have been getting ripped without it for years… and obviously it doesn’t allow them to get to a lower bf% then was previously possible or else all of the pro’s would be using it

theres no question that steroids will allow you to achieve a level of muscularity that would not be possible without them… but I’ve never heard of someone getting more ripped from DNP that would not have been possible without it…

people will ALWAYS use steroids because in bodybuilding there is a certain look that you cannot achieve without them. So the risk/reward is worth it to some people. DNP is not required for a certain look… so what justification is there to use it?

I get mad when people claim steroids are a shortcut, because you don’t end up in the same place. a shortcut is a shorter or easier way to obtain the same results. DNP seems like an unnecessary shortcut to me because it doesn’t get you more ripped than you could have gotten through proper dieting.

39

[quote]Dbol123 wrote:
interesting thread…

i admit, there is something else contributing to the negative view I have on this potentially dangerous subtance…

the fact that it does not seem to be necessary for bodybuilding… bodybuilders have been getting ripped without it for years… and obviously it doesn’t allow them to get to a lower bf% then was previously possible or else all of the pro’s would be using it

theres no question that steroids will allow you to achieve a level of muscularity that would not be possible without them… but I’ve never heard of someone getting more ripped from DNP that would not have been possible without it…

people will ALWAYS use steroids because in bodybuilding there is a certain look that you cannot achieve without them. So the risk/reward is worth it to some people. DNP is not required for a certain look… so what justification is there to use it?

I get mad when people claim steroids are a shortcut, because you don’t end up in the same place. a shortcut is a shorter or easier way to obtain the same results. DNP seems like an unnecessary shortcut to me because it doesn’t get you more ripped than you could have gotten through proper dieting.

[/quote]

its been around since what the 30’s? And bodybuilders now are getting more ripped then before particularly with start of 90’s. Steroids-test particularly- are not meant to burn fat they meant to build muscle which is personally why I save them only for bulking. Dnp has been used for awhile now for bodybuilders and they still use it.

most people don’t use steroids to achieve a certain look that is beyond possible naturally, just use to get to a certain size quicker-really how many people who juice even here are close to ifbb size?-. Same with dnp, used to burn fat quick.

You don’t need steroids to gain muscle just like you don’t need dnp to burn fat. Its just a substance that speeds up the process. This forum is about using these compounds, not a shortcut its just a different game.

40

wow, aside from MassiveGains being incredibly obstinate, uncompromising and unnecessarily opprobrious - you’ve both produced a very informative discussion.

Good thread to read.

Cheers!