[quote]InTheZone wrote:
To be fair, hell I’ve even been guilty of this myself though rather rarely…lol.
In the GH thread to be exact, but just not quite to the aggressive degree that others go to, in my own defense.
Cheers.[/quote]
wait what?
[quote]retailboy wrote:
Check out the study by Cutting and Tainter in 1933 entitled “Metabolic actions of dinitrophenol with the use of balanced and unbalanced diets.”
It is a human study, determining the best diet for DNP use.
-RB[/quote]
I don’t know where my head is… I plugged in that title this morning and pulled up a paper from 1935 about DNP’s Effect on Ca, N and Phos metabolism without realizing the difference. It was interesting but definitely tangential. I’ll give it another shot after getting some shut eye.
[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
retailboy wrote:
Check out the study by Cutting and Tainter in 1933 entitled “Metabolic actions of dinitrophenol with the use of balanced and unbalanced diets.”
It is a human study, determining the best diet for DNP use.
-RB
I don’t know where my head is… I plugged in that title this morning and pulled up a paper from 1935 about DNP’s Effect on Ca, N and Phos metabolism without realizing the difference. It was interesting but definitely tangential. I’ll give it another shot after getting some shut eye.
[/quote]
I hear ya, I’m not sure if it’s online. I bought the whole article a few years back off the internet - it’s also in the medical library next to my apartment that I spend lots of time in. Here is the full reference:
Cutting WC, Tainter ML. 1933. Metabolic actions of dinitrophenols with the use of balanced and unbalanced diets. JAMA 27:2099-2102.
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
There’s always a person ready to “help warn the masses” here on this site…The name just changes with time…the negligent, false representation of facts though doesn’t change, it is only always twisted to their own personal taste.
[/quote]
Your absolutley right. There’s always a level headed person on here the name just changes. Right now there are a few of us (I would name them but I know I would leave out a couple). BUT we are trying to show these other guys the light - not look down on them. Cause we all know what it was like when we first hit this board, I’m glad I had people like you Zone to look up to for advice.
-RB
[quote]MaddyD wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
To be fair, hell I’ve even been guilty of this myself though rather rarely…lol.
In the GH thread to be exact, but just not quite to the aggressive degree that others go to, in my own defense.
Cheers.
wait what?
[/quote]
Lol!!!
Yeah MaddyD, remember when big Al started the GH experiment thread, and I was advising our boy Cortes to maybe not go full bore into the IV injecs…My bad, as Al pointed out…
You see, I was doing just what I pointed out, sort of falsely representing the safe practice of IV injecs. Due to my prejudice and a fair bit of ignorance on my part concerning said IV injecs, and thus I was misrepresenting the facts regarding that practice.
Of course Al pointed this out to me, with a bit of “tude” thrown in for good measure and we went back and forth on it for a bit, and then we both settled down and had a cocktail afterwards, lol…
SO I was merely saying that I’ve kind of done that to a degree, but I didn’t really get too over the top with it, I think someone on this thread however did go a bit overboard, and that’s why I said that.
Anywho, even DNP is something that can be used if done with extreme care and knowledge, without killing yourself, and some might even say quite effectively.
Westy saying that it’s no different than AAS and T3 as far as effects go, is silly. Of course it is, and it is much more powerful and fast at what it does at that. You just can’t refute that with facts, as retailboy quite eloquently said.
Hey btw, all quiet on the western front Maddy…
There’s a stirring in the wind though…maybe soon buddy…
You got my email?
How can we do that…PM’s don’t sit right with me anymore.
Ciao bro.
[quote]retailboy wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
There’s always a person ready to “help warn the masses” here on this site…The name just changes with time…the negligent, false representation of facts though doesn’t change, it is only always twisted to their own personal taste.
Your absolutley right. There’s always a level headed person on here the name just changes. Right now there are a few of us (I would name them but I know I would leave out a couple). BUT we are trying to show these other guys the light - not look down on them. Cause we all know what it was like when we first hit this board, I’m glad I had people like you Zone to look up to for advice.
-RB
[/quote]
Thank you rb.
You’re one of the few who possess both intelligence, and integrity here along with a temperate temper, and a fairly vast knowledge of all things related to the forum.
ITZ
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
retailboy wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
There’s always a person ready to “help warn the masses” here on this site…The name just changes with time…the negligent, false representation of facts though doesn’t change, it is only always twisted to their own personal taste.
Your absolutley right. There’s always a level headed person on here the name just changes. Right now there are a few of us (I would name them but I know I would leave out a couple). BUT we are trying to show these other guys the light - not look down on them. Cause we all know what it was like when we first hit this board, I’m glad I had people like you Zone to look up to for advice.
-RB
Thank you rb.
You’re one of the few who possess both intelligence, and integrity here along with a temperate temper, and a fairly vast knowledge of all things related to the forum.
ITZ[/quote]
lol itz I have been thinking how to carefully put this lol
try sending a fishing line out to my nickmname@hush.com you should go “ohhhh yaaaa” with that one
but ya I remember the iv thing, difference though is that shooting into your veins always have had this horrible stigma to it, not only around our circles but everywhere so its understandable why anyone would be warned against it.
the thing is with drugs,specially ones with nasty sides yes they all have a purpose, and everyone can do things properly,but thats all really up to that person and their ability to not be a dumb ass.
me for example I have had issues with blood pressure as of late.
I went to donate blood and they told me my hemoglobin was out of range.
too high basically.
well I dont know if you remember one suggestion that we were talking about with that stuff but I ran solo the other night with wonderful success.
I went back today only to donate plasma this time,not ready for whole blood yet and my hemo was well within range.
headaches gone and no more blurred vision. blood pressure back to normal.
and that was some crazy out of the box ideas there. and it works.
lol no I will not explain either remember or do not lol I dont want people running around saying “well some idiot named maddy said it was cool”
but I see some of the posts around and not much faith.
I have no problems myself educating someone and thus learning more myself but I hate dealing with morons that want their hand held.
/hijack
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Westy saying that it’s no different than AAS and T3 as far as effects go, is silly. Of course it is, and it is much more powerful and fast at what it does at that. You just can’t refute that with facts, as retailboy quite eloquently said.
[/quote]
I didnt say no difference, I said the difference isnt significant, especially for our purposes.
Lets say T3 boost metabolism what 5-10% depending on the dose, DNP is more like 30-60%+ again user and dose dependent.
Most people never venture into the higher doses, so lets say 40%.
Those percentages heavily favor DNP just looking at it on paper.
What the numbers dont show is that cardio of any kind on DNP blows hard, and raises the risk factors involved with usage.
Few people utilize proper cardio on DNP, and find it more effective to just lift and let the drug do its thing.
Lifting+Cardio+AAS+T3+diet
Is extremely effective, people have been doing it for years. A 10 week cutting cycle and a little carb manipulation will get you shredded.
Compared to:
Lifting+AAS+DNP+diet
DNP impairs lifting somewhat, but that depends heavily on the dose and the user, and cardio is almost not worth it.
You still come out looking shredded. But it takes about half as long.
T3 is more catabolic than DNP, but even recreational AAS usage will offset that easily.
And since your not likely to gain muscle on DNP or T3 with a cutting diet, even using AAS. Theres no reason to factor muscle gain on cycle into the equation as it will be minimal in both cases.
Factor in that you cant/dont run DNP long as its incredibly uncomfortable, and more dangerous long term.
And your looking at something like this, given that your not getting ready for a contest, T3 and DNP can achieve the same results in about the same amount of time, whats a few more weeks to the average gym rat ?
DNP is the “NOW” drug, you get lean and you get lean fast, its higher risk and you feel like crap for a while, but the results are impressive.
T3 is the slow and steady drug, you get lean, it takes longer, its more comfrotable, its less dangerous, and you dont feel like crap.
My point is this, what recreational user could possibly need to be dramatically leaner that quickly, the cost/risk to benefit makes no sense. Why not just wait a little longer and do it safer and easier ? I realize this is counter intuitive and doesn’t at all fit the personality of the average lifter, but its still true.
Its a quick and dirty fix.
Im not condemning advanced users who play with DNP, I simply cant understand the choice.
If you need something stronger than prop, tren, winny, T3 and low dose albuterol to cut then your doing something seriously wrong.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
My point is this, what recreational user could possibly need to be dramatically leaner that quickly, the cost/risk to benefit makes no sense. Why not just wait a little longer and do it safer and easier ? I realize this is counter intuitive and doesn’t at all fit the personality of the average lifter, but its still true.
[/quote]
Couldn’t agree more.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
Westy saying that it’s no different than AAS and T3 as far as effects go, is silly. Of course it is, and it is much more powerful and fast at what it does at that. You just can’t refute that with facts, as retailboy quite eloquently said.
I didnt say no difference, I said the difference isnt significant, especially for our purposes.
Lets say T3 boost metabolism what 5-10% depending on the dose, DNP is more like 30-60%+ again user and dose dependent.
Most people never venture into the higher doses, so lets say 40%.
Those percentages heavily favor DNP just looking at it on paper.
What the numbers dont show is that cardio of any kind on DNP blows hard, and raises the risk factors involved with usage.
Few people utilize proper cardio on DNP, and find it more effective to just lift and let the drug do its thing.
Lifting+Cardio+AAS+T3+diet
Is extremely effective, people have been doing it for years. A 10 week cutting cycle and a little carb manipulation will get you shredded.
Compared to:
Lifting+AAS+DNP+diet
DNP impairs lifting somewhat, but that depends heavily on the dose and the user, and cardio is almost not worth it.
You still come out looking shredded. But it takes about half as long.
T3 is more catabolic than DNP, but even recreational AAS usage will offset that easily.
And since your not likely to gain muscle on DNP or T3 with a cutting diet, even using AAS. Theres no reason to factor muscle gain on cycle into the equation as it will be minimal in both cases.
Factor in that you cant/dont run DNP long as its incredibly uncomfortable, and more dangerous long term.
And your looking at something like this, given that your not getting ready for a contest, T3 and DNP can achieve the same results in about the same amount of time, whats a few more weeks to the average gym rat ?
DNP is the “NOW” drug, you get lean and you get lean fast, its higher risk and you feel like crap for a while, but the results are impressive.
T3 is the slow and steady drug, you get lean, it takes longer, its more comfrotable, its less dangerous, and you dont feel like crap.
My point is this, what recreational user could possibly need to be dramatically leaner that quickly, the cost/risk to benefit makes no sense. Why not just wait a little longer and do it safer and easier ? I realize this is counter intuitive and doesn’t at all fit the personality of the average lifter, but its still true.
Its a quick and dirty fix.
Im not condemning advanced users who play with DNP, I simply cant understand the choice.
If you need something stronger than prop, tren, winny, T3 and low dose albuterol to cut then your doing something seriously wrong.
[/quote]
Well I’ll admit that you made some excellent points here, might I just add it would have been nice had you done such a good job on your earlier post then as this one.
Not that it was that bad, just a bit more vague and perhaps more easily misconstrued Westy to what you were trying to get across.
Thanks.
[quote]MaddyD wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
retailboy wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
There’s always a person ready to “help warn the masses” here on this site…The name just changes with time…the negligent, false representation of facts though doesn’t change, it is only always twisted to their own personal taste.
Your absolutley right. There’s always a level headed person on here the name just changes. Right now there are a few of us (I would name them but I know I would leave out a couple). BUT we are trying to show these other guys the light - not look down on them. Cause we all know what it was like when we first hit this board, I’m glad I had people like you Zone to look up to for advice.
-RB
Thank you rb.
You’re one of the few who possess both intelligence, and integrity here along with a temperate temper, and a fairly vast knowledge of all things related to the forum.
ITZ
lol itz I have been thinking how to carefully put this lol
try sending a fishing line out to my nickmname@hush.com you should go “ohhhh yaaaa” with that one
but ya I remember the iv thing, difference though is that shooting into your veins always have had this horrible stigma to it, not only around our circles but everywhere so its understandable why anyone would be warned against it.
the thing is with drugs,specially ones with nasty sides yes they all have a purpose, and everyone can do things properly,but thats all really up to that person and their ability to not be a dumb ass.
me for example I have had issues with blood pressure as of late.
I went to donate blood and they told me my hemoglobin was out of range.
too high basically.
well I dont know if you remember one suggestion that we were talking about with that stuff but I ran solo the other night with wonderful success.
I went back today only to donate plasma this time,not ready for whole blood yet and my hemo was well within range.
headaches gone and no more blurred vision. blood pressure back to normal.
and that was some crazy out of the box ideas there. and it works.
lol no I will not explain either remember or do not lol I dont want people running around saying “well some idiot named maddy said it was cool”
but I see some of the posts around and not much faith.
I have no problems myself educating someone and thus learning more myself but I hate dealing with morons that want their hand held.
/hijack
[/quote]
Ok, I think I got ya on that one now buddy, lol…
Talk to you soon bud.
TB