[quote]4est wrote:
Professor X wrote:
4est wrote:
Ok, tell me I’m stupid.
Can we bitch slap you, too?
Only if you call me Sally.[/quote]
sally…slap…slap…slap…slap. better have my money. 
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor X wrote:
When I did them (which was years ago now), my elbows were pointed straight up in the air. I have honestly not found dropping those two exercises to hinder development at all. My triceps don’t stick out like Ernie Taylor’s, but they aren’t tiny.
Yea…I’m with you on the need to do them.
But as far as the position of the elbows, while they are pointing straight up in the air (and you are lying down) are they behind the head, or more even with, as in over the head/face?
Moving the elbows more over my face eliminated the elbow pain that I had when I was doing them with the elbows more behind the head.
Can you picture any of this?
[/quote]
They were more than likely slightly behind my head. My effort, however, was to keep them as straight up as possible. Obviously, in case I dropped them, my elbows would be slightly back. I may try them again…but more than likely I won’t.
[quote]X-Factor wrote:
PS, when you say dips prof do you mean on parallel bars? Or between 2 benches?[/quote]
I use the Hammer Strength dip machine and try to go up to at least 5 plates a side. The one at the gym I go to now isn’t bolted to the floor so if I try to go any heavier, it lifts off the ground and falls over.
[quote]
But anyways it’s interesting that you have the same problem, I can;t get my tris to grow really anymore, any tips after being in the same boat?[/quote]
Heavy dips, heavy kickbacks (I usually go to at least 65lbs when doing them), heavy press downs, heavy rope pressdowns and lots of food.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
They were more than likely slightly behind my head. My effort, however, was to keep them as straight up as possible. Obviously, in case I dropped them, my elbows would be slightly back. I may try them again…but more than likely I won’t.[/quote]
Prof,
Just from a personal testimony, I’ve found that doing skull/nose crushers/french presses on a decline to be way easier on my elbows, and way better for my triceps.
Just my own experience…
[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
Prof,
Just from a personal testimony, I’ve found that doing skull/nose crushers/french presses on a decline to be way easier on my elbows, and way better for my triceps.
Just my own experience…[/quote]
I second that, I picked that tip up from CT and it really helps keep the stress on your tri’s and doesn’t hurt my elbows like doing them on a flat bench does.
Over the weekend I decided to drop fullbody routines and try a Upper/lower Splits for the rest of the year.
Today I am doing upper body. I will be doing Pushdowns for the first time in many years, should I start with a straight bar, v-bar or rope?
[quote]Bauer97 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
They were more than likely slightly behind my head. My effort, however, was to keep them as straight up as possible. Obviously, in case I dropped them, my elbows would be slightly back. I may try them again…but more than likely I won’t.
Prof,
Just from a personal testimony, I’ve found that doing skull/nose crushers/french presses on a decline to be way easier on my elbows, and way better for my triceps.
Just my own experience…[/quote]
Thanks for the tip.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Heavy dips, heavy kickbacks (I usually go to at least 65lbs when doing them), heavy press downs, heavy rope pressdowns and lots of food.[/quote]
I remember the video of Skip LaCour doing strict (wink!) kickbacks with 65-lbers…
[quote]Dirty Tiger wrote:
Today I am doing upper body. I will be doing Pushdowns for the first time in many years, should I start with a straight bar, v-bar or rope?[/quote]
It doesn’t really matter, each of those attachments makes you (or at least it should) perform a push/pressdown in a different way, each of which will hit the triceps in a slightly different manner.
Rotate them around in your workouts, variety is a good thing.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I use the Hammer Strength dip machine and try to go up to at least 5 plates a side. The one at the gym I go to now isn’t bolted to the floor so if I try to go any heavier, it lifts off the ground and falls over. [/quote]
I love that machine. My last gym got rid of it when they opened their new MEGA complex… grrrr
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bauer97 wrote:
Professor X wrote:
They were more than likely slightly behind my head. My effort, however, was to keep them as straight up as possible. Obviously, in case I dropped them, my elbows would be slightly back. I may try them again…but more than likely I won’t.
Prof,
Just from a personal testimony, I’ve found that doing skull/nose crushers/french presses on a decline to be way easier on my elbows, and way better for my triceps.
Just my own experience…
Thanks for the tip.[/quote]
Ditto
Before today I hadn’t done a pressdown in 2.5 years (since I learned I was a n00b and n00bs should stick to the compound lifts).
Well today was time for another workout and I was still sore from a push/pull workout on monday except my arms had recovered. So I went in, did some hard sets of deadlifts, and then alternated tricep pressdowns and curls.
The pump I got from the pressdowns was ridiculous! I’m a chest dominant bencher and even with close grip bench and heavy dips I don’t get a pump like this.
Ok, so I see how they are useful. How do you guys that use both compound and isolation lifts incorporate both? I think I’m going to try doing this workout 1/week and to bring my triceps up to strength so they are used more when benching.
When you guys do pressdowns, do you kind of hunch over the bar and press it down (elbows out), or do you stand back and keep your arms at your side (elbows in) with your hands straight out in front of you bringing the bar down in an arc?
It’s hard for me to explain, but these two variations are very different for me, and I can get a whole lot more weight pushing straight down with my elbows out.
I used to always do them with my elbows at my sides until I saw someone doing them the other way. Of course, this lead to someone showing me the “right way” and telling me to keep my elbows in and use strict form. Yea, he was very skinny and didn’t look like he worked out a day in his life.
[quote]Big Dan wrote:
How do you guys that use both compound and isolation lifts incorporate both? [/quote]
By not worrying about making that distinction at all and doing the movements that will provide the benefit I am looking for.
[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
When you guys do pressdowns, do you kind of hunch over the bar and press it down (elbows out), or do you stand back and keep your arms at your side (elbows in) with your hands straight out in front of you bringing the bar down in an arc?
It’s hard for me to explain, but these two variations are very different for me, [/quote]
They are very different for everyone. I try to lock my elbows in at my side so that they are static througout the press with the only movement being the extension of the elbow. If I dont do this I get too much lat and pec involvement in the press.
Obviuosly the elbows are not entirely static, but that is what I aim for when I do the exercise.
I am currently doing them with a rope attachment going from a position with my hands basically touching in front of me at the top of the press and extending down to arms beside my hips, again trying to keep elbows relatively static throughout the ROM.
I use pressdowns as a finishing exercise after chest day, and a warm up exercise for the tri’s on arm day. I will also use them with clients, but like Matt, they are upersetted near the end of the workouts.
I will change the handles fairly often. Some days using a V bar, other days straight bar, rarely a rope. Single hands either reversed or normal I will use at the end of arm day as a burnout.
Arm day I will typically do something like this.
4x10 Pressdowns pyramid
4x8-12 Skull Crunch
4x10 Overhead Extension w/ db
3x10 Rope Overhead
Burnout with single handed cable extensions
The skull crunch from a decline is a great substitution for those will elbow/joint problems or pain. I use this with my clientele all the time.
Would I do pressdowns instead of a compound movement? No. Will I still do pressdowns on occasion? Yes.
Lifting is supposed to be fun (but only 'cause we’re sick bastids), so if you like a lift, do it. As long as you’re doing the real work before you goof around, feel free to throw in an exercise or two that may not be the most efficient but you enjoy.
If it keeps you lifting, it’s all good.
PS Prof.
I have noticed that decline extensions help alot too. But to be honest it’s still way sore I can maybe do like 60% of my max before I feel it hurting. It might work for you to the point of incorporating them. But for now I’m not comfortable with doing something my body tells me not to, i’m sure there are other options.
I get elbow pain when I do “scullcrushers” but I have found something that reduces the pain quite a bit. My pain is in the tendon that connects one of the Tricep muscles to the elbow joint.
I started wearing a Patella Tendon Strap over that tendon(right above the elbow) and it has reduced the pain considerably. The reason I use the one for your Knee is because it is bigger and will fit my arm. The tennis elbow straps I found were to small. Here is a link to the strap. You can find them in most sporting goods stores.
http://www.sportsauthority.com/product/index.jsp?productId=219320
I also like pushdowns. I usually alternate through several tricep excercises.
[quote]SWR-1240 wrote:
When you guys do pressdowns, do you kind of hunch over the bar and press it down (elbows out), or do you stand back and keep your arms at your side (elbows in) with your hands straight out in front of you bringing the bar down in an arc?
[/quote]
You want to keep your elbows tucked in to your sides and rotate at the elbow only. You can still hunch over the bar though — that way your legs are back further and you can optimize the contracted position better.
Because the elbows out is actually a compound movement. You’re rotating at your elbow AND shoulder joints. Your bringing your pecs into play which is a big part of the weight difference.
Despite what you thought of your skinny friend, elbows-in isolates your triceps best.
A more efficient way to stimulate all the muscles involved in the elbows-out version is a little-practiced exercise called…dips.
Do 'em on a V-Bar dip station if your gym has one. If you are talented enough you can do them Gironda style, with a palms out grip on the bars.