Difference Between Sumo and Convential

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

Sumo versus conventional numbers will vary based on your strengths (as someone else has mentioned) vs. anthropomorphics (leverages, long torso/limbs, etc.). Flexibility will also have effect as well. I have worked with people, I thought based on appearance, I would expect an easier time with sumo, but because they could not get their hips abducted/externally rotated enough, (i.e. knees could not be pushed out), they could not be positioned in a mechanically advantageous position at the bottom. Try both, alternate them every other week and you will figure out which one you are better at.

beef

22

Generally when I think of big dead lifts I think of conventional dead lifts. But it all depends on your weak points/ leverages.

23

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
@panzer-I don’t think the range of motion is very important in a deadlift comparison. I know in most things it matters, but how many people are pulling close to 1000lbs or more with sumo deadlifts? But that’s not really here nor there…

OP- If you’re doing some sort of powerlifting you are working your nervous system. If you normally don’t pull sumo you may not be practiced in it as much. I think there’s a good chance you could pull more with sumo if you practice that and get your system used to the form, without getting bigger just based on your numbers.[/quote]

Fair point on the 1000lb thing (the biggest sumo I can find is in the high 800s), but what’s your reasoning behind ROM not being overly important to the deadlift? Genuinely curious.

According to PrimalLifter.com is for sale | HugeDomains I have a relatively long torso and average arms (along with short legs) so that may be why sumo is far easier for me.

Having said that, I far prefer conventional pulling. I kind of feel like I am cheating with sumo haha.[/quote]

I think it has to do with the muscles involved. May be that the positioning of the conventional allows the muscles to work better. Like the glutes, they are much stronger at extension than external rotation. May also be that the adductors are stressed a little less and can be utilized better vs the sumo which places a huge load on the adductors. I feel that may be more important than the range of motion.

The only comparison I can think of is comparing conventional with sumo and conventional with stiff leg DL. even if you’re flexible enough to do it you wont set a world record (or so I think lol)

24

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
@panzer-I don’t think the range of motion is very important in a deadlift comparison. I know in most things it matters, but how many people are pulling close to 1000lbs or more with sumo deadlifts? But that’s not really here nor there…

OP- If you’re doing some sort of powerlifting you are working your nervous system. If you normally don’t pull sumo you may not be practiced in it as much. I think there’s a good chance you could pull more with sumo if you practice that and get your system used to the form, without getting bigger just based on your numbers.[/quote]

Fair point on the 1000lb thing (the biggest sumo I can find is in the high 800s), but what’s your reasoning behind ROM not being overly important to the deadlift? Genuinely curious.

According to PrimalLifter.com is for sale | HugeDomains I have a relatively long torso and average arms (along with short legs) so that may be why sumo is far easier for me.

Having said that, I far prefer conventional pulling. I kind of feel like I am cheating with sumo haha.[/quote]

I think it has to do with the muscles involved. May be that the positioning of the conventional allows the muscles to work better. Like the glutes, they are much stronger at extension than external rotation. May also be that the adductors are stressed a little less and can be utilized better vs the sumo which places a huge load on the adductors. I feel that may be more important than the range of motion.

The only comparison I can think of is comparing conventional with sumo and conventional with stiff leg DL. even if you’re flexible enough to do it you wont set a world record (or so I think lol)[/quote]

Won’t set a world record pulling sumo??? Seriously??? The majority probably are pulled sumo as a matter of fact… to name a few
Ribic
Olech
Fedosienko
Belayev

As far as the effect of ROM on a deadlift… It does make a difference IMO, especially when it comes to fatiguing. Pulling 2 heavy conventionals I think will tire you out much more for the third attempt than 2 heavy sumo pulls. As far as leverages favouring either style, I personally think the majority of people would pull more sumo if they trained it and learned to do the form properly. Don’t get me wrong, I have A LOT of work to do personally but I still think it is a more favourable motion. Now don’t go crazy hating me for this comment… I didn’t say EVERYONE I just said most people. I say this because if you go to IPF worlds, 90% of deadlifts are sumo. I am hesitant though because I think this may partially be becaues the builds that favour the best TOTALS are the ones which also favour the best sumo pulls… IE leverages favouring good squats and benches (especially squat), favour a Sumo pull. Thoughts?

25

185kg sumo, I couldn’t get 130kg off the floor conventional.

im 6’2" with like a 36" inseem and the arms of someone whose like 6’5"

26

My semi-sumo and conventional are the same. Wide sumo is a smidge lower. But I find conventional easier on my posterior hip and my back can take a lot more abuse than my hips so I go with conventional.

27

So I tried sumo yesterday… it’s pretty pitiful (barely 300lbs). Also painful.

And just now, I took those measurements… Short torso, long arms, conventional. That’s sorta vindicating. Although also sorta sucks to know I have short legs AND a short torso. :frowning:

29

My conventional pull is 425. Tonight, I managed to pull a 450 sumo max without much CNS excitement.

I find my ability to pull my hips through to lockout dramatically improves with sumo. I’m slow off the floor, but if I get past my shins the lift is a definite make. I also find that it’s easier for me to think about pulling back, as opposed to pulling up, when deadlifting sumo.

I’m 6’0, not sure of my limb measurements.

30

[quote]IRN wrote:
Ed Coan had a 901lbs (semi) sumo pull. He actually has the highest sumo’ish pull I believe.
[/quote]

actually i believe maxim Podtynny made 909 sumo.

31

That is 410kg sumo deadlift. Whiich happens to be 909 also hahaha

32

That is 410kg sumo deadlift. Whiich happens to be 909 also hahaha

33

[quote]arramzy wrote:

That is 410kg sumo deadlift. Whiich happens to be 909 also hahaha[/quote]

I don’t know if I’d even call that a sumo pull. The guy is so freaking huge it’s like his feet are shoulder width apart.

34

[quote]ouroboro_s wrote:

I don’t know if I’d even call that a sumo pull. The guy is so freaking huge it’s like his feet are shoulder width apart.[/quote]

My first impression was that he was pulling modified sumo, except that where his feet align to the bar isn’t really all that narrow. I watched the vid several times trying to figure it out and realized he must just be tremendous.

35

410kg=903-904 depending on conversion factor.
though to be fair malanichev nearly puled 417.5kg/920lb at last years cup of titans.

36

Raw Conv - 628lbs
Raw Sumo - 661lbs

The reason most Russian and Ukrainian IPF lifters pull sumo, from what I heard from talking with a couple of their coaches, is that sumo is easier to recover from, which allows them to squat and pull more often

37

[quote]arramzy wrote:

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
@panzer-I don’t think the range of motion is very important in a deadlift comparison. I know in most things it matters, but how many people are pulling close to 1000lbs or more with sumo deadlifts? But that’s not really here nor there…

OP- If you’re doing some sort of powerlifting you are working your nervous system. If you normally don’t pull sumo you may not be practiced in it as much. I think there’s a good chance you could pull more with sumo if you practice that and get your system used to the form, without getting bigger just based on your numbers.[/quote]

Fair point on the 1000lb thing (the biggest sumo I can find is in the high 800s), but what’s your reasoning behind ROM not being overly important to the deadlift? Genuinely curious.

According to PrimalLifter.com is for sale | HugeDomains I have a relatively long torso and average arms (along with short legs) so that may be why sumo is far easier for me.

Having said that, I far prefer conventional pulling. I kind of feel like I am cheating with sumo haha.[/quote]

I think it has to do with the muscles involved. May be that the positioning of the conventional allows the muscles to work better. Like the glutes, they are much stronger at extension than external rotation. May also be that the adductors are stressed a little less and can be utilized better vs the sumo which places a huge load on the adductors. I feel that may be more important than the range of motion.

The only comparison I can think of is comparing conventional with sumo and conventional with stiff leg DL. even if you’re flexible enough to do it you wont set a world record (or so I think lol)[/quote]

Won’t set a world record pulling sumo??? Seriously??? The majority probably are pulled sumo as a matter of fact… to name a few
Ribic
Olech
Fedosienko
Belayev

As far as the effect of ROM on a deadlift… It does make a difference IMO, especially when it comes to fatiguing. Pulling 2 heavy conventionals I think will tire you out much more for the third attempt than 2 heavy sumo pulls. As far as leverages favouring either style, I personally think the majority of people would pull more sumo if they trained it and learned to do the form properly. Don’t get me wrong, I have A LOT of work to do personally but I still think it is a more favourable motion. Now don’t go crazy hating me for this comment… I didn’t say EVERYONE I just said most people. I say this because if you go to IPF worlds, 90% of deadlifts are sumo. I am hesitant though because I think this may partially be becaues the builds that favour the best TOTALS are the ones which also favour the best sumo pulls… IE leverages favouring good squats and benches (especially squat), favour a Sumo pull. Thoughts?[/quote]

I’m sorry, I should have specified. I meant world record, as in the single best, not records per weight class. I’m talking more so about absolute genetic and physical potential.

38

[quote]HERC410 wrote:
410kg=903-904 depending on conversion factor.
though to be fair malanichev nearly puled 417.5kg/920lb at last years cup of titans.[/quote]

Hahaha I realized that after I posted but thanks for the correction. Insane… fricking insane…

39

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:

[quote]arramzy wrote:

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:

[quote]panzerfaust wrote:

[quote]VTTrainer wrote:
@panzer-I don’t think the range of motion is very important in a deadlift comparison. I know in most things it matters, but how many people are pulling close to 1000lbs or more with sumo deadlifts? But that’s not really here nor there…

OP- If you’re doing some sort of powerlifting you are working your nervous system. If you normally don’t pull sumo you may not be practiced in it as much. I think there’s a good chance you could pull more with sumo if you practice that and get your system used to the form, without getting bigger just based on your numbers.[/quote]

Fair point on the 1000lb thing (the biggest sumo I can find is in the high 800s), but what’s your reasoning behind ROM not being overly important to the deadlift? Genuinely curious.

According to PrimalLifter.com is for sale | HugeDomains I have a relatively long torso and average arms (along with short legs) so that may be why sumo is far easier for me.

Having said that, I far prefer conventional pulling. I kind of feel like I am cheating with sumo haha.[/quote]

I think it has to do with the muscles involved. May be that the positioning of the conventional allows the muscles to work better. Like the glutes, they are much stronger at extension than external rotation. May also be that the adductors are stressed a little less and can be utilized better vs the sumo which places a huge load on the adductors. I feel that may be more important than the range of motion.

The only comparison I can think of is comparing conventional with sumo and conventional with stiff leg DL. even if you’re flexible enough to do it you wont set a world record (or so I think lol)[/quote]

Won’t set a world record pulling sumo??? Seriously??? The majority probably are pulled sumo as a matter of fact… to name a few
Ribic
Olech
Fedosienko
Belayev

As far as the effect of ROM on a deadlift… It does make a difference IMO, especially when it comes to fatiguing. Pulling 2 heavy conventionals I think will tire you out much more for the third attempt than 2 heavy sumo pulls. As far as leverages favouring either style, I personally think the majority of people would pull more sumo if they trained it and learned to do the form properly. Don’t get me wrong, I have A LOT of work to do personally but I still think it is a more favourable motion. Now don’t go crazy hating me for this comment… I didn’t say EVERYONE I just said most people. I say this because if you go to IPF worlds, 90% of deadlifts are sumo. I am hesitant though because I think this may partially be becaues the builds that favour the best TOTALS are the ones which also favour the best sumo pulls… IE leverages favouring good squats and benches (especially squat), favour a Sumo pull. Thoughts?[/quote]

I’m sorry, I should have specified. I meant world record, as in the single best, not records per weight class. I’m talking more so about absolute genetic and physical potential.
[/quote]

Can you clarify on one comment you made? Maybe it’s just me, but it seems that you contradicted yourself (prob just me).

You say that about 90% of ppl pull sumo in the IPF worlds (which I haven’t been to, so I’m taking your word for it). You also say that if ppl pulled sumo more often then the records would look different in that more sumo records would exist. Seems like there should be some ppl from IPF breaking top records, based on your statement, right? Once again, no disrespect or calling you out, just want clarification.

We may need some more experienced lifters to comment on the rest from here, I’m sure that could give some insight on it all.

40

Personallyh I recall more big deadlifters yelling conventional overf the years. Kuc, gant, kaz, Greene , Bolton , magnusson among others. I think it’s your proportions.