Did Noahs Arc Really Happen

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
221

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

let me get this on track. please provide the links/references to the TPs that you conclude are athiests. And by athiests, do you mean a rejection of organized religion (then I too am most certainly an athiest) or, do you mean an outright denial of a Supreme/Divine source? I’ve read works by both Hawking and Susskind and I didn’t perceive any agenda to disprove God. I think you refer more to the athiest using TP and such in their attempt to disprove God.
[/quote]

No the people listed and many more absolutely deny the existence of God. Here is a quote by Hawking himself:

“All that my work has shown is that you don’t have to say that the way the universe began was the personal whim of God.”

Here is a bunch of quotes along the same line…

Here is some more:

Now interestingly, as he bring his speech to crescendo with his something from nothing thoery, he says that there is energy there. And energy is a something. That’s why I emailed him directly and asked him that very question, to which he responded “No, there is always something there.”

222

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I think the chances of you being held accountable for every action in your life is a terribly narrow view of the universe [/quote]

Of course. In a cosmic sense, nothing I do amounts to a speck of dust. But when it comes to my soul, and more importantly, future generations of my family… every decision I make has a potential consequence.

223

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

let me get this on track. please provide the links/references to the TPs that you conclude are athiests. And by athiests, do you mean a rejection of organized religion (then I too am most certainly an athiest) or, do you mean an outright denial of a Supreme/Divine source? I’ve read works by both Hawking and Susskind and I didn’t perceive any agenda to disprove God. I think you refer more to the athiest using TP and such in their attempt to disprove God.
[/quote]

No the people listed and many more absolutely deny the existence of God. Here is a quote by Hawking himself:

“All that my work has shown is that you don’t have to say that the way the universe began was the personal whim of God.”

Here is a bunch of quotes along the same line…

Here is some more:

Now interestingly, as he bring his speech to crescendo with his something from nothing thoery, he says that there is energy there. And energy is a something. That’s why I emailed him directly and asked him that very question, to which he responded “No, there is always something there.”
[/quote]

You have a weird agenda, and quite possibly one of the most biased reading comprehensions I’ve come across lately. I read every quote in your link and I cannot appreciate where Hawkings has an agenda or belief against “God”. I don’t have time for an hour video so I did not view your second link.

Again, I challenge you to provide reference/source for your apparent contention that the TP community has an agenda to disprove “God”.

224

It actually seems to me that Hawking believes in God and is maybe just trying to figure out what His role in the universe is?

225

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I think the chances of you being held accountable for every action in your life is a terribly narrow view of the universe [/quote]

Of course. In a cosmic sense, nothing I do amounts to a speck of dust. But when it comes to my soul, and more importantly, future generations of my family… every decision I make has a potential consequence.

[/quote]

May I ask what religion you adhere to that your future family also suffers?

226

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
It actually seems to me that Hawking believes in God and is maybe just trying to figure out what His role in the universe is?[/quote]

“A” for reading comprehension sir. That’s my impression. And it’s been my impression that that is the curiosity of many of TP.

227

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

let me get this on track. please provide the links/references to the TPs that you conclude are athiests. And by athiests, do you mean a rejection of organized religion (then I too am most certainly an athiest) or, do you mean an outright denial of a Supreme/Divine source? I’ve read works by both Hawking and Susskind and I didn’t perceive any agenda to disprove God. I think you refer more to the athiest using TP and such in their attempt to disprove God.
[/quote]

No the people listed and many more absolutely deny the existence of God. Here is a quote by Hawking himself:

“All that my work has shown is that you don’t have to say that the way the universe began was the personal whim of God.”

Here is a bunch of quotes along the same line…

Here is some more:

Now interestingly, as he bring his speech to crescendo with his something from nothing thoery, he says that there is energy there. And energy is a something. That’s why I emailed him directly and asked him that very question, to which he responded “No, there is always something there.”
[/quote]

You have a weird agenda, and quite possibly one of the most biased reading comprehensions I’ve come across lately. I read every quote in your link and I cannot appreciate where Hawkings has an agenda or belief against “God”. I don’t have time for an hour video so I did not view your second link.

Again, I challenge you to provide reference/source for your apparent contention that the TP community has an agenda to disprove “God”.
[/quote]

Man, it doesn’t get much more plain than that.
I don’t have any sort of weird agenda and I never said, at all, the TP community at large has an agenda to disprove the existence of God, I never even intimated that. I said that some physicists do, do just that and I just provided two examples. I watched a show where Hawking in his robot voice said, he wants to put forth “a view of the universe that doesn’t need God.” These were his words. Did I misinterpret that? How much more clear do you want it? But I never ever, ever, ever said that the goal of theoretical physics is to disprove the existence of God.

Second, I rendered an opinion, which is all it was, that sometimes TP’s may deliberately avoid a theory or conclusion, that may actually prove the existence of something like a “God”. I have no proof what so ever, of that. It’s just a hunch…I used the example of null theory, where they make a claim of something from nothing, but they themselves admit there is still something there. Last time I looked the definition of nothing, did not include something. Am I wrong?

I am not sure what your agenda is. You want me to say I am not a smart as a hawking or some other theoretical physicist? I 'll grant that happily. I deeply enjoy science and I am fascinated by the work they do. I never made such a claim, at all. Hell I need those folks to be right so I can make my points based on their theories and conclusions. I really don’t know what you are on about.

228

What does proving or disproving God have to do with physics at all?

Either a G/god made the physical world or didn’t, that doesn’t change the discoverable properties of the physical world on bit. It still is what it is.

When you say something like “Lighting is hurled by God”, then you’re incorporating a deity into your physics.

When we assign a physical “cause” to lighting instead, our system is agnostic to a deity.

Constructing a system that is not dependent on a deity to make sense, makes sense, as it tells us more about the physical world we live in, without assigning cause to something metaphysical we can’t comprehend or interact with. It doesn’t limit one’s concept of a deity though, it’s not anti-theist.

229

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

May I ask what religion you adhere to that your future family also suffers?

[/quote]

If I lead my children astray, and they in turn teach my grandchildren the same things I taught them…

In a more earthly sense, financial and moral choices I make could have a profound effect on my children. I have seen many kids with severe issues from divorces and abusive relationships that hampers their ability to succeed in life.

230

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
What does proving or disproving God have to do with physics at all?

Either a G/god made the physical world or didn’t, that doesn’t change the discoverable properties of the physical world on bit. It still is what it is.

When you say something like “Lighting is hurled by God”, then you’re incorporating a deity into your physics.

When we assign a physical “cause” to lighting instead, our system is agnostic to a deity.

Constructing a system that is not dependent on a deity to make sense, makes sense, as it tells us more about the physical world we live in, without assigning cause to something metaphysical we can’t comprehend or interact with. It doesn’t limit one’s concept of a deity though, it’s not anti-theist.[/quote]

You’ve been way out of the loop for to long to understand the conversation at hand.

The physical world and the metaphysical world intersect at many points at all times. For everything that exists, there is a “way” it got there. For everything that exists, there is a law that guides “it” now, and what it will do in the future.

It’s all related at some point.

231

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
What does proving or disproving God have to do with physics at all?

Either a G/god made the physical world or didn’t, that doesn’t change the discoverable properties of the physical world on bit. It still is what it is.

When you say something like “Lighting is hurled by God”, then you’re incorporating a deity into your physics.

When we assign a physical “cause” to lighting instead, our system is agnostic to a deity.

Constructing a system that is not dependent on a deity to make sense, makes sense, as it tells us more about the physical world we live in, without assigning cause to something metaphysical we can’t comprehend or interact with. It doesn’t limit one’s concept of a deity though, it’s not anti-theist.[/quote]

Well put. Thank you.

232

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

May I ask what religion you adhere to that your future family also suffers?

[/quote]

If I lead my children astray, and they in turn teach my grandchildren the same things I taught them…

In a more earthly sense, financial and moral choices I make could have a profound effect on my children. I have seen many kids with severe issues from divorces and abusive relationships that hampers their ability to succeed in life. [/quote]

So following your logic, all existing Muslims today were “lead astray” by their parents and so forth. SMH this is why I rebuke religion.

233

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

let me get this on track. please provide the links/references to the TPs that you conclude are athiests. And by athiests, do you mean a rejection of organized religion (then I too am most certainly an athiest) or, do you mean an outright denial of a Supreme/Divine source? I’ve read works by both Hawking and Susskind and I didn’t perceive any agenda to disprove God. I think you refer more to the athiest using TP and such in their attempt to disprove God.
[/quote]

No the people listed and many more absolutely deny the existence of God. Here is a quote by Hawking himself:

“All that my work has shown is that you don’t have to say that the way the universe began was the personal whim of God.”

Here is a bunch of quotes along the same line…

Here is some more:

Now interestingly, as he bring his speech to crescendo with his something from nothing thoery, he says that there is energy there. And energy is a something. That’s why I emailed him directly and asked him that very question, to which he responded “No, there is always something there.”
[/quote]

You have a weird agenda, and quite possibly one of the most biased reading comprehensions I’ve come across lately. I read every quote in your link and I cannot appreciate where Hawkings has an agenda or belief against “God”. I don’t have time for an hour video so I did not view your second link.

Again, I challenge you to provide reference/source for your apparent contention that the TP community has an agenda to disprove “God”.
[/quote]

Man, it doesn’t get much more plain than that.
I don’t have any sort of weird agenda and I never said, at all, the TP community at large has an agenda to disprove the existence of God, I never even intimated that. I said that some physicists do, do just that and I just provided two examples. I watched a show where Hawking in his robot voice said, he wants to put forth “a view of the universe that doesn’t need God.” These were his words. Did I misinterpret that? How much more clear do you want it? But I never ever, ever, ever said that the goal of theoretical physics is to disprove the existence of God.

Second, I rendered an opinion, which is all it was, that sometimes TP’s may deliberately avoid a theory or conclusion, that may actually prove the existence of something like a “God”. I have no proof what so ever, of that. It’s just a hunch…I used the example of null theory, where they make a claim of something from nothing, but they themselves admit there is still something there. Last time I looked the definition of nothing, did not include something. Am I wrong?

I am not sure what your agenda is. You want me to say I am not a smart as a hawking or some other theoretical physicist? I 'll grant that happily. I deeply enjoy science and I am fascinated by the work they do. I never made such a claim, at all. Hell I need those folks to be right so I can make my points based on their theories and conclusions. I really don’t know what you are on about.[/quote]

Doesn’t get much more plain than that? lol At least one other person here thought exactly as I and stated as much. I don’t think it’s plain at all. Hawking is attempting to discover what makes the volcanoes of old happen - seeking and discovering cause does not obviate God. Wanting to explain the physical does not deny He who set it in motion. We can discover the exact mechanism of the big bang and still will never explain what occurred or existed just before…ever. There is no end and there is no denying God by that journey. One only needs to apply your logic to the volcanoes of old to expose the weakness in your perception. The earliest vulcanist was no more an atheist than Hawking et al. If you’re going to attribute atheism to someone, at least reference a source where the person proclaims it. You’re insinuating it, with poor reading comprehension.

234

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
I don’t pretend to have any idea of what heaven actually is. I know what I hope it is, but I’m not sure I could properly describe it (though I’ve never tried).

My question was more about the relative comfort of knowing that everything you do is important and will be taken into account vs. knowing that nothing you do matters at all and your only concerns are what repercussions you’ll face while you’re alive.

Moral responsibility is a heavier load to bear than legal and/or physical consequence.[/quote]

Long story short, you’re good because of the magic space genie who polices everything you do.

Good to know, tell me if you ever come to New Zealand, and I’ll warn people to give you a wide berth.

235

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

Moral responsibility is a heavier load to bear than legal and/or physical consequence.[/quote]

I could not agree more. People who dont have a sense of moral character have no character.

236

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
So following your logic, all existing Muslims today were “lead astray” by their parents and so forth. SMH this is why I rebuke religion.[/quote]

I am neither a religious person (as far as an organization) nor a judgmental one. I have faith in God and believe in doing good. That is all.

237

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Long story short, you’re good because of the magic space genie who polices everything you do.

Good to know, tell me if you ever come to New Zealand, and I’ll warn people to give you a wide berth.[/quote]

I think you missed the point of my posts, Mak.

238

If god is all-knowing and all-powerful…

Why do bad people exist? Because people have free will?

Why does cancer exist and why does god allow it to exist? Because micro-organisms have free will?

Why does god allow tornadoes and tsunamis to exist and take children away from their parents, even if the parents are good christians?

Either god doesn’t exist, or he’s ignorant/evil.

239

I’m sorry to be off topic but returning to the original question. The Epic of Gilgamesh is independent of the Bible and confirms the story of Noah. When God created the Earth about 6000 years ago there was an additional protective barrier of some kind of water vapor in the atmosphere that actually filtered out the UV rays and allowed people to live longer. This water vapor enventually fell for 40 days and along with earthquakes helped flood the Earth. And ever since that day people have lived shorter lives.

Another side note on fossils. A person’s face continues to grow with age. For example when someone lived to be 900 years there ears, brows and other parts would continue to grow. When these were found in archiaelogical digs evolutionists said they were transitions from apes to humans. Lizards grew to monster size during this period and were not brought on the ship. In the Bible it states Noah had 3 sons in his 500th year. Either they were triplets or Noah had them by 3 different wives which may be how the different race of people carried on. It’s fun to speculate but the important thing is to keep the faith of our Lord and Savior where all good things originate.

240

…lol?