I do think it is worth noting that I’ve seen this attitude of we shouldn’t help those who don’t work taken to far. I am not saying this is what you are saying, just that I’ve heard it before.
Exceptions do exist. No way my disabled brother is able to contribute to society in any meaningful way for example. I think society is better when we take care of those type of people. I’ve heard people say the responsibility should fall on the family or religious institutions should step in. I disagree with that.
That being said, I don’t think any of those type of exceptions apply to OP based on what he has written.
I was going suggest he go to college for a Bachelor’s in something but if he can’t hack an 8 to 5 just shy of 30, no way he could survive any worthwhile undergrad program.
I think OP has checked out of this thread haha, but I do wonder if there might be some sort of psychological issue that he could get help with.
I am an optimist. I think most people want to contribute to society. They want to be happy with their work.
Maybe there is some depression or other disorder involved here? IDK.
We can see the results of a person’s actions, and wither they work hard or not so much. Harder to tell their intentions or the level of effort it is for them to put in a day’s work. I don’t think it is the same level of effort to do the same work for all. I have a buddy that is like a robot. He will work 70-80 hours a week and enjoy it. While that is commendable, I think he falls to an extreme for work discipline (because he likes it). I think the same for training. Those who enjoy it seem to maintain better discipline.
OP is portraying an instagram like story person who just seems to stumble from one luxurious adventure to the next, having fun and living his best life.
I agree. It requires very little motivation for me to go train. I enjoy it. I don’t see it as a relaxing break to skip training, and only do so if there is some other obligation that is more important.
But, I think for someone like my friend, work is much the same for him. I think he loves it. He says he forgets to eat during the day. His wife has to remind him to eat and go to bed. He starts work at 4 am and stops and 8 pm at the earliest on non-training days in which he trains and goes home and works more. He “sleeps in” on the weekends till 6 am and works most of the day.
I think he enjoys work more than almost anyone. But I think it is kinda a spectrum. He is on the far right side of it, OP is on the far left.
I think it is reasonable to think that some of the people on the far left have some sort of mental issue that puts them there. Maybe depression, concentration issues (ADHD), chronic fatigue perhaps. Now I think if that’s the case, it is on those people to seek help. I did so with ADHD, and it has helped me a lot. It has helped me match my intentions to actions for example.
Most people are lazy sacks and will take the easiest path always.
He sounds like most successful people that start a successful business from the ground up. I have to block off time that I won’t stay connected into work related matters or I will work non-stop and constantly be monitoring emails.
Work - life balance is a must though - especially when you have a spouse and / or children.
He is a senior director at a large grocery distributor. He has rapidly climbed the corporate ladder. He hasn’t told me exactly what he makes per year, but I think with bonus it is about $400K. His wife also makes good money, but not quite there. For sure they bring home north of $500K together.
They are also what I would consider pretty good with money for their income level. He is a more scared of debt than I am, which I think for him is a minor set back. He just had a house built that cost around $700K. I think they are on track to have it paid off in roughly a year. I told him with his interest rate (sub 3%), that he could invest the money and pay the minimum on the house, and in the end he would come ahead in most cases. He likes playing it safe with that. He really likes Dave Ramsey, which I think for the most part give good advice, but his advice isn’t for people like my buddy. They both still will max out their Roth 401Ks every year.
I think this perhaps is what I was getting at with the difference in action and intention. I agree with you on action. I do think most people at least at one point had good intentions regarding work, even if they turn out lazy. I think for some of those people perhaps something regarding mental health could be addressed to improve the action side of things. I think of things depression and ADHD. In some cases it could be self induced issues. Poor lifestyle choices. Substance abuse. I think for most people if they can get that stuff sorted out they will be at least somewhat successful. I think that they will be happier individuals if they do so as I think having meaningful work (where one has some security and is appreciated) is important to happiness.
All of this is self-inflicted in my opinion or most of it.
You have to WANT to change and progress. No drug and nobody else can do that for you.
I have buried a fiancé and unborn child. That shit really sucked and I could have spiraled into depression and bad choices, but I made a conscious effort not to. I have a hard time having pity empathy on people with self-inflicted situations in life.
Will I help you out of it if you are really willing to work at it and change if I can? Sure.
Will I meet you more than halfway and pity you? No.
Life is tough and cruel a lot of times. You dredge through that to enjoy the sunny days. Or you let life win and beat your ass.
I think my point is that actually making the change isn’t equally difficult for everyone. I am not saying that this should be an excuse. Ultimately actions are what matters regarding work.
I don’t think it takes as much effort for my buddy to work 80 hours a week as it would for almost everyone else. I do think he is disciplined, but I don’t think it is a character trait that he has worked particularly hard to develop. It is natural for him basically. It isn’t wrong to reward him for that trait. I just wouldn’t necessarily think he is morally superior to others because of it.
I think there are a few areas where this type of thing is present. I think about it with fitness. I am fairly disciplined in that area. I am fitter than average by a lot. I don’t think that makes me better than others. I think most would agree with that, but subconsciously humans tend to assign fit individuals as more trustworthy, disciplined, honest, kind, etc… We tend to see people that are successful in their work as having similar traits as fit people. I don’t think it always plays out though.
Out of all the people that excel at something, I would guess for most it was something that was easier for them than others. Exceptions exist of course. Most people accept this with things like sports or fitness. I don’t think that is necessarily true for something like office work, or running a business. There it seems many people seem to think the playing field is more or less fair. That the guy who can focus for 12 hours a day and come up with brilliant ideas can do so because of better overall character than those who don’t.
Again, I think it is fair to reward both the individual that excels at sports because of genetic advantages, and I think it is fair to award the guy who can focus and come up with cool shit.
We just wouldn’t think someone who has difficulty with sports as lacking in character like we would someone who struggles with work or drops out of college.
More reference is needed though. Just doing strictly work no matter what it is should be done well and with discipline or move to something else. Working hard and discipline ANYBODY can do that is not lazy.
If they struggle with concepts or just don’t have the intellect, that is one thing. But, struggling to actually put forth effort, show up on time, attempt to the best of your ability to do your job, etc. is just pure lazy bullshit.
A person may not be cut out for academics and college and that is fine. I know guys that make good money in trades or with their hands.
Find your niche, but not being in your niche does not give you an excuse to be lazy and worthless.
Truth. I don’t think any of us liked these “shit jobs”, nor were they in our niche, in our high school and college years—buttering bagels, folding clothes, washing dishes, waiting on tables, bartending, etc.—but at some point realized despite how much we disliked them that we had to do them properly.
Even many professionals dislike their jobs or places of work but take them seriously.