Dicscipline help

Philoe.

You have many options to go along with the P+C meals to get your protein.

Lean meats = chunk light tuna, chicken breast, lean trukey, etc. Most of your meat consumption should be from lean sources even with the P+F meals also leaving you room to get in your “GOOD FATS”

Ok their is also egg whites, and depending on how you are with dairy, there are a plethora of choices, fat free cottage cheese, ff cream cheese, ff yogurt, skin milk, fat free cheeses of all variety.

Then you also have sources like mixed beans, and such but they are not complete proteins and you will need, I think, is some protein from grains to complete the protein in beans.

Then you have your protein pdrs. and I am sure I have missed a few.

Hope that helped
Phill

Thanks Phill…I completely forgot about those. I usually eat my egg whites with fat (I usually toss a couple of whole eggs in there) but I also eat a lot of salmon packs, which along with tuna is very low fat. A whole salmon pack has 42g of protein and only 3g fat. I like eating the packs because not only are there no bones and mess, but it gives you the option of adding fish oil to make it a fat meal, or eating with carbs instead. Lots of good choices…

Thanks for the great ideas.

no prob guys

TT (and anyone else), I have one last hurdle of discipline to overcome. I’m finding my refeed stretching a little longer than six hours. Sometimes it’s a matter of me staying up past midnight, and sometimes I’m caving in a little and starting before 6pm. What’s been happening is I’m getting big cravings to get the refeed started and sometimes start before 6pm.

I’ve made some great progress since starting this thread and definitely lost fat, but realize that these slightly longer refeeds may have cost me an extra few pounds of fat loss over the past couple of weeks. I did see the suggestion of r-ala but haven’t gotten any yet. Will that help for this particular issue, and/or is there something else I can take to help hold out until the evening? This is my last discipline issue to clean up for the diet.

Shiggy & Phill, you two are awesome! Shiggy, watching you answering questions I realize how well you’ve internalized and implemented the stuff we’ve covered in this thread. I’m impressed (once again)!

Philoe, I wish you all the best in your program. If you have any questions, please feel free to stop by and ask. I’m sure Shiggy wouldn’t mind.

Great thread here guys.

Solid advice.

Okay, Shiggy, I’ve got a couple of ideas.

Try starting your refeed later in the day. I can’t start a refeed in the morning because when I go back to my regular normal portions, my control just seems to go out the window. That’s on a controlled/strategic type of refeed where the emphasis is on carbs that refill muscle glycogen. In fact I remember reading in a book by Rob Faigin, “Natural Hormonal Enhancement,” that a refeed should start 6 hours before you go to bed so that you sleep through the cravings that follow.

One thing I’m inclined to ask since you want to run over timewise on your refeeds, Are you eating enough? On what I now call a “rampage refeed,” properly done, you should be stuffing so much food down your face that you’re good for hours and hours after it ends before you even rediscover your appetite. Don’t try and use restraint on a refeed.

Even though it’s your high glycemic carbs that give you the physiological benefits, fiber can be useful. If somewhere in your refeed you eat something that’s higher in fiber, your intestines should be so full/stretched, that a signal is sent that you won’t need to eat for a week! I’m teasing a little, but not entirely. Try at least a portion of yellow rice and black beans; high in fiber. Myself, I love the high-fiber Kashi cereals and use LC Grow instead of milk. Another favorite of mine is sweet potato casserole with a crunchy brown-sugar, pecan topping. The sweet potatoes are high in fiber.

Since you’re obviously salivating at the thought of (and counting the minutes to) your refeed, I’d recommend a couple of different things you might do. Purchase some guar gum which is a type of soluble fiber and mix a heaping teaspoon with a 16-ounce glass of water & Crystal Light to taste. NOW’s brand is pretty cheap. You’ll go from famished to full in 30 seconds, enough to hold on for a couple of hours more.

Guar gume is a thickener, so when you go to mix it, mix it very, very fast, and chug it down even FASTER. Otherwise it will thicken to the consistency of sludge, and you’ll be eating it with a spoon. It’s a good idea to drink another 16-ounce glass of water after. I’ve had people that tried my trick, didn’t drink enough water and ended up pretty constipated.

If all else fails, take in all of your fat requirements for the day in the three meals before your refeed and increase protein slightly.

My final thought is that when you start using the r-ALA, you will no longer have a problem. It does such a good job of disposing of the blood sugar you spiked that you sometimes end up a bit hypoglycemic and end up very, very sleepy. I’ve described it as a quasi-diabetic coma.

What’s going on is that blood sugar levels rise really high and the body responds by releasing enough insulin to bring blood sugar back down into an acceptable range. But since you took the r-ALA (an insulin mimicker), not as much insulin is needed to do the job and more blood sugar is removed than is actually necessary. Now your blood sugar levels are low and you’re lethargic/sleepy. I think the r-ALA may help you get to sleep towards the end of your refeed.

One last thing, have you ever read up on non-insulin mediated glucose uptake? If not, do a search on that phrase (in quotes) and the word exercise. I’d love to see you either do a cardio session or a weight lifting session prior to your refeed BECAUSE OF a quirk of physiology called “non-insulin mediated glucose uptake.” It’s a huge opportunity for you.

I hope some of this helps!!!

Thanks for all the great info TT. I will keep it all in mind for next weekend!

Shiggy,

Worried about your refeeds huh. I know the feeling I am getting straight on this issue still to this day.

All of TT’s advice was great. The gum trick can work wonders befor, and, actually be used to limit your intake during your refeed by making it simply impossible to eat more.

Another good trick is the as mentioned fiberous food during the refeed. You may, as stated in Lonnie Lowry’s artricle about holiday meals, try eating an apple 30 prior to your refeed. It will give you some filling fiber and research has shown other benefits, I cant quote those right now. Check the previous issues from the week of Christmas.

This is a great point to touch on. You are going to refeed anyhow you may as well take advantage of the oppurtunity.

I took a sec and grabbed a couple examples from Mr. Berardi just for a little credibility. There are a pletora of articles that go over the whole glycogen depletion issue, the folliwing refeed and benefits for you to delve into though.

With that said my personal prevference is to do a whole body w/o in a 3-5 x 10 fashion. Really anything is going to help. Just pick something you like and reep the benefits.

The addition of a work out prior to your refeed can also have the effect of easing you mentally during your refeed. “I worked hard for this.”

quote Studies have shown that performing 10-rep sets of biceps curls and leg extensions leads to a significant depletion of stored muscle carbohydrates. One set of biceps curls leads to 12% depletion while three sets of biceps curls leads to 25% depletion. Three sets of leg extensions lead to 35% depletion, while six sets of leg extensions lead to over 40% depletion. A typical bodybuilding workout may consist of many more sets per muscle group and this may lead to even further depletion of muscle glycogen.

So it appears that you can deplete muscle glycogen by either endurance-type exercise or anaerobic type exercise. Therefore if you want to deplete glycogen, pick your poison. Go ahead and exercise continuously for 60 minutes at 75% of your VO2 max (about 84% of your heart rate max), do repeated 1-2 minute intervals at 120% of your max (simply exercise as fast as you can for 1-2 minutes with an equal rest period between intervals), or go do 10 sets of 10 reps under a heavy bar with minimal rest between sets. All three will deplete muscle glycogen quite well. But why do that? [/quote]

Other than those few little points I cant think of much else to help right now that TT didnt cover.

Just to recap, enjoy your over feed, but you might as well take every step you can to reep all the possible benefits.

Good Luck, Your doing great

Phill

Shiggy, the R-ala really does help as TT described. I recently just switched my refeeds to 6 to 12 at night and barely made it past 10 last night! lol

HHH, the r-ALA is so effective at what you and I have described that I’ve been FORCED to move my refeeds to the end of the day. If not, I end up on the couch sleeping all DAY!!!

Excellent. As usual, you guys have an answer to every question I can possibly think of. This is gonna be a good year for getting things done. Thanks again.

Today marks about a month since I’ve started, so here are my first month’s results. I decided to use the handheld fat tester for my numbers. Although it sways about 0.7%, I’m actually getting bigger differences with the FatTrack still as I guess I still don’t have it down. Even though the handheld sways a bit, it has gone down consistently over the month. Plus the number is higher than what I was getting with the FatTrack, and looking at those higher numbers are actually starting to motivate me.

After looking at my notes, the handheld had me at about 29% when I weighed 208 a month ago. Now it has me at 26.5% at 206. Based on my calculations, this puts me at gaining about 4 pounds of LBM and losing about 6 pounds of fat. That would make perfect sense with what has happened: clothes fitting better, people noticing a thinning out while workouts are getting much stronger.

I think now that I am getting some consistency going here I will start updating the thread monthly instead of weekly. Progress is steady, but slow, so I think I’ll just weigh myself weekly without posting it, as the difference in the reading has shown that while I’ve only lost two pounds in a month, much more has changed between fat and lean mass. I will update this in between the monthly readings if I get any questions or obstacles.

Boy, Shiggy, those are darn good results for one month!!! And what’s most impressive to me is that you didn’t let the scale weight thing make you bolt and run and do something crazy-stupid (like drop calories drastically or start running marathons). (grin)

I also like the fact that you’ve found a way to measure your progress and that you’re getting more consistent readings. It ain’t 'bout the number/percentage you get. It’s about tracking which way the number goes. In your case it’s going down!!!

Finally, I love the fact that your goals are SPECIFICALLY to drop BF and/or put on LBM, with either one being a win.

You’ve accomplished a lot in one month’s time, Shiggy. You can really be proud of yourself and your accomplishments.

Thanks TT. You’ve been a big help in getting this far. My main goal is definitely to drop bf% first, and I think I will gain a bit of lbm while doing so because a lot of the oly exercises are new to me and thus I will probably experience newbie-type of gains for a while. I seem to be doing well with the Berardi workout, now that I’m not making the mistake of substituting some of the isolation exercises with compound ones. I also cut back some cardio and occasionally trim out a few sets if I’m feeling too sore/overtrained. These workouts are intense and make me feel like I’ve really burned some fat and earned the Surge afterwards, so I want to finish the second phase (this was week five of the twelve) before moving on.

I don’t care about what my specific bf% is right now…as long as it keeps going down month after month and I can get close enough to determine an appropriate protein/fat intake amount. I realize that I’m going to need to be in this fat-loss phase for the long haul, maybe even this entire year. The key will be for me to keep paying attention as to how I’m feeling and if I need to make any adjustments along the way, to figure out what they are before suffering any setbacks.

Good work Shiggy! Keep it going!

Shiggy,

Great work!! It is great to hear that all your time and work @ not only training and diet, but also educating yourself is paying off.

Your enthusiasm and dedication is a welcome sight. Many of the ppl that come to this sight asking for help stick around for a week or two and then they are gone.
Where as you came in with a need and desire to help yourself and that has seemed to grow stronger every week. You have faced every early hurdle, like stalls in BF loss, etc., kept the faith and continued your focus on your goals and it seems to be working.

That is one hell of a bit of progress in a months time. Keep us informed over the long haul.

Great work!!!
Phill

I will definitely keep the posts going, Phill. A big part of the reason I’m staying motivated is to put all of the help from you guys to use and not waste your time. It’s kinda like a deal, and my part of the bargain is to use what you guys have given me.

I feel like it’s going to be a long road with several obstacles. I feel that most of my change thus far happened in the first two weeks and has slowed down since, so that means it’s going to take me a really long time, I’m estimating 6-12 months, to really trim up. This is the beginning of a long journey.

Sound good!

Better to take the long road. You will be much happier in the long run with the route you are taking, I think. Concentrating on adding LBM and slowly losing fat. Instead of the drastic fat loss approach. It can take years to regain the LBM lost from one single bout of server dieting if you are not very carefull.

Dont be a stranger,

Phill