Detroit becomes Largest City in US History to File Bankruptcy

Agree, Quasi and Rob.

A commentator said it best yesterday…the days of some huge manufacturer plopping a huge plant in the middle of your town, creating hundreds of great paying jobs is over.

And I also agree with you guys that California can really become a “Test Case” if it is unable to get it’s fiscal house in order…

As Max has often said…too many promises…to too many people…while slowly but surely squeezing out what Tax Base it has with over Taxation and Regulation. (Heck…even the MOVIE industry would rather film in Budapest than in LA…)

It seems like just a matter of time if they don’t act.

Mufasa

I am honestly, truly sorry to see the skilled trade being replaced by robots. As someone who loves the idea of robotics and understands the precision/accuracy that can be brought time and time again - skilled trade is just as much as art as a skill.

I saw a video the other day of a robot that can take orders and make ice cream cones/sundays based on used input. This is very rudimentary, and it only does those two options, but its the stepping stone for increasing capability. No big deal, except now you won’t be getting a job at Dairy Queen because Mr. Icey can make whatever you want in 45 seconds or less.

I think there was never a plan to develop people once these new systems were put in place. We are victims of our own creation(s). Not the robots themselves, but the demand for cheaper/faster products. That isn’t just a dollar menu double cheeseburger, that’s also a 30 million dollar piece of equipment. People can only work so fast/so many hours - machines know no stop except for maintenance and repair. Thankfully, there will still be jobs to monitor the machines, but I highly doubt that’s as rewarding as a welder to watch a machine doing a task he used to take pride in :-/. Currently at my company though, the robot welders are only in Japan, not the US yet.

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
I am honestly, truly sorry to see the skilled trade being replaced by robots. As someone who loves the idea of robotics and understands the precision/accuracy that can be brought time and time again - skilled trade is just as much as art as a skill.

I saw a video the other day of a robot that can take orders and make ice cream cones/sundays based on used input. This is very rudimentary, and it only does those two options, but its the stepping stone for increasing capability. No big deal, except now you won’t be getting a job at Dairy Queen because Mr. Icey can make whatever you want in 45 seconds or less.

I think there was never a plan to develop people once these new systems were put in place. We are victims of our own creation(s). Not the robots themselves, but the demand for cheaper/faster products. That isn’t just a dollar menu double cheeseburger, that’s also a 30 million dollar piece of equipment. People can only work so fast/so many hours - machines know no stop except for maintenance and repair. Thankfully, there will still be jobs to monitor the machines, but I highly doubt that’s as rewarding as a welder to watch a machine doing a task he used to take pride in :-/. Currently at my company though, the robot welders are only in Japan, not the US yet. [/quote]

Just wait until they have repair robots that repair each other and the machines. It is coming.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
I am honestly, truly sorry to see the skilled trade being replaced by robots. As someone who loves the idea of robotics and understands the precision/accuracy that can be brought time and time again - skilled trade is just as much as art as a skill.

I saw a video the other day of a robot that can take orders and make ice cream cones/sundays based on used input. This is very rudimentary, and it only does those two options, but its the stepping stone for increasing capability. No big deal, except now you won’t be getting a job at Dairy Queen because Mr. Icey can make whatever you want in 45 seconds or less.

I think there was never a plan to develop people once these new systems were put in place. We are victims of our own creation(s). Not the robots themselves, but the demand for cheaper/faster products. That isn’t just a dollar menu double cheeseburger, that’s also a 30 million dollar piece of equipment. People can only work so fast/so many hours - machines know no stop except for maintenance and repair. Thankfully, there will still be jobs to monitor the machines, but I highly doubt that’s as rewarding as a welder to watch a machine doing a task he used to take pride in :-/. Currently at my company though, the robot welders are only in Japan, not the US yet. [/quote]

Just wait until they have repair robots that repair each other and the machines. It is coming.[/quote]

I think the robots-fixing-robots thing was captured in a Kurt Vonnegut book. Or mankind being slaves to machinery.

In the end, we have unwittingly fucked ourselves with the unforseen advances in technology. But if the shit hits the fan one day, grid crash, solar flares, whatever, we will be back to square one where the blue collar worker who can use his hands will be on top.

At one point in this country, good labor, semi or skilled was in high demand. They worked on the car and aircraft assembly lines. Granted people worked 60 hours a week for $.50 an hour but they were better off than many.

Now labor and all that goes with it is the wildcard that will lose or win acquisitions, mergers and contracts. Too top heavy with management, pension loads, medical benefits and other perks, competing is tough.

Rob

Since when did you have an avatar?

It’ll be a long long time until the robots are capable of self-sustaining, and at that point, if the AI ever becomes that “good” there won’t be a possibility for a mass-scale EMP. Seeing as all of our missiles/etc. are linked to tech, they’d have control of it too.

Yea, the whole “machinery that we create takes over” idea has been used quite a bit, almost as much as zombies. And its still worth reading/watching!

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Since when did you have an avatar? [/quote]

I added it on Thursday.

25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your Head

It is so sad to watch one of America’s greatest cities die a horrible death. Once upon a time, the city of Detroit was a teeming metropolis of 1.8 million people and it had the highest per capita income in the United States. Now it is a rotting, decaying hellhole of about 700,000 people that the rest of the world makes jokes about. On Thursday, we learned that the decision had been made for the city of Detroit to formally file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. It was going to be the largest municipal bankruptcy in the history of the United States by far, but on Friday it was stopped at least temporarily by an Ingham County judge. She ruled that Detroit’s bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan Constitution because it would result in reduced pension payments for retired workers. She also stated that Detroit’s bankruptcy filing was “also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit’s auto companies) out of bankruptcy”, and she ordered that a copy of her judgment be sent to Barack Obama. How “honoring the president” has anything to do with the bankruptcy of Detroit is a bit of a mystery, but what that judge has done is ensured that there will be months of legal wrangling ahead over Detroit’s money woes. It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out. But one thing is for sure - the city of Detroit is flat broke. One of the greatest cities in the history of the world is just a shell of its former self. The following are 25 facts about the fall of Detroit that will leave you shaking your head…

  1. At this point, the city of Detroit owes money to more than 100,000 creditors.

  2. Detroit is facing $20 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities. That breaks down to more than $25,000 per resident.

  3. Back in 1960, the city of Detroit actually had the highest per-capita income in the entire nation.

  4. In 1950, there were about 296,000 manufacturing jobs in Detroit. Today, there are less than 27,000.

  5. Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.

  6. There are lots of houses available for sale in Detroit right now for $500 or less.

  7. At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in the city.

  8. About one-third of Detroit’s 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.

  9. An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.

  10. Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are working at this point.

  11. If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.

  12. Detroit was once the fourth-largest city in the United States, but over the past 60 years the population of Detroit has fallen by 63 percent.

  13. The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the casinos.

  14. There are 70 “Superfund” hazardous waste sites in Detroit.

  15. 40 percent of the street lights do not work.

  16. Only about a third of the ambulances are running.

  17. Some ambulances in the city of Detroit have been used for so long that they have more than 250,000 miles on them.

  18. Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been permanently closed down since 2008.

  19. The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40 percent over the past decade.

  20. When you call the police in Detroit, it takes them an average of 58 minutes to respond.

  21. Due to budget cutbacks, most police stations in Detroit are now closed to the public for 16 hours a day.

  22. The violent crime rate in Detroit is five times higher than the national average.

  23. The murder rate in Detroit is 11 times higher than it is in New York City.

  24. Today, police solve less than 10 percent of the crimes that are committed in Detroit.

  25. Crime has gotten so bad in Detroit that even the police are telling people to “enter Detroit at your own risk”.

It is easy to point fingers and mock Detroit, but the truth is that the rest of America is going down the exact same path that Detroit has gone down.

Detroit just got there first.

All over this country, there are hundreds of state and local governments that are also on the verge of financial ruin…

"Everyone will say, ‘Oh well, it’s Detroit. I thought it was already in bankruptcy,’ " said Michigan State University economist Eric Scorsone. “But Detroit is not unique. It’s the same in Chicago and New York and San Diego and San Jose. It’s a lot of major cities in this country. They may not be as extreme as Detroit, but a lot of them face the same problems.”

A while back, Meredith Whitney was highly criticized for predicting that there would be a huge wave of municipal defaults in this country. When it didn’t happen, the critics let her have it mercilessly.

But Meredith Whitney was not wrong.

She was just early.

Detroit is only just the beginning. When the next major financial crisis strikes, we are going to see a wave of municipal bankruptcies unlike anything we have ever seen before.

And of course the biggest debt problem of all in this country is the U.S. government. We are going to pay a great price for piling up nearly 17 trillion dollars of debt and over 200 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities.

All over the nation, our economic infrastructure is being gutted, debt levels are exploding and poverty is spreading. We are consuming far more wealth than we are producing, and our share of global GDP has been declining dramatically.

We have been living way above our means for so long that we think it is “normal”, but an extremely painful “adjustment” is coming and most Americans are not going to know how to handle it.

So don’t laugh at Detroit. The economic pain that Detroit is experiencing will be coming to your area of the country soon enough.

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your Head

It is so sad to watch one of America’s greatest cities die a horrible death. Once upon a time, the city of Detroit was a teeming metropolis of 1.8 million people and it had the highest per capita income in the United States. Now it is a rotting, decaying hellhole of about 700,000 people that the rest of the world makes jokes about. On Thursday, we learned that the decision had been made for the city of Detroit to formally file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. It was going to be the largest municipal bankruptcy in the history of the United States by far, but on Friday it was stopped at least temporarily by an Ingham County judge. She ruled that Detroit’s bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan Constitution because it would result in reduced pension payments for retired workers. She also stated that Detroit’s bankruptcy filing was “also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit’s auto companies) out of bankruptcy”, and she ordered that a copy of her judgment be sent to Barack Obama. How “honoring the president” has anything to do with the bankruptcy of Detroit is a bit of a mystery, but what that judge has done is ensured that there will be months of legal wrangling ahead over Detroit’s money woes. It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out. But one thing is for sure - the city of Detroit is flat broke. One of the greatest cities in the history of the world is just a shell of its former self. The following are 25 facts about the fall of Detroit that will leave you shaking your head…

  1. At this point, the city of Detroit owes money to more than 100,000 creditors.

  2. Detroit is facing $20 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities. That breaks down to more than $25,000 per resident.

  3. Back in 1960, the city of Detroit actually had the highest per-capita income in the entire nation.

  4. In 1950, there were about 296,000 manufacturing jobs in Detroit. Today, there are less than 27,000.

  5. Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.

  6. There are lots of houses available for sale in Detroit right now for $500 or less.

  7. At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in the city.

  8. About one-third of Detroit’s 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.

  9. An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.

  10. Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are working at this point.

  11. If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.

  12. Detroit was once the fourth-largest city in the United States, but over the past 60 years the population of Detroit has fallen by 63 percent.

  13. The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the casinos.

  14. There are 70 “Superfund” hazardous waste sites in Detroit.

  15. 40 percent of the street lights do not work.

  16. Only about a third of the ambulances are running.

  17. Some ambulances in the city of Detroit have been used for so long that they have more than 250,000 miles on them.

  18. Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been permanently closed down since 2008.

  19. The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40 percent over the past decade.

  20. When you call the police in Detroit, it takes them an average of 58 minutes to respond.

  21. Due to budget cutbacks, most police stations in Detroit are now closed to the public for 16 hours a day.

  22. The violent crime rate in Detroit is five times higher than the national average.

  23. The murder rate in Detroit is 11 times higher than it is in New York City.

  24. Today, police solve less than 10 percent of the crimes that are committed in Detroit.

  25. Crime has gotten so bad in Detroit that even the police are telling people to “enter Detroit at your own risk”.

It is easy to point fingers and mock Detroit, but the truth is that the rest of America is going down the exact same path that Detroit has gone down.

Detroit just got there first.

All over this country, there are hundreds of state and local governments that are also on the verge of financial ruin…

"Everyone will say, ‘Oh well, it’s Detroit. I thought it was already in bankruptcy,’ " said Michigan State University economist Eric Scorsone. “But Detroit is not unique. It’s the same in Chicago and New York and San Diego and San Jose. It’s a lot of major cities in this country. They may not be as extreme as Detroit, but a lot of them face the same problems.”

A while back, Meredith Whitney was highly criticized for predicting that there would be a huge wave of municipal defaults in this country. When it didn’t happen, the critics let her have it mercilessly.

But Meredith Whitney was not wrong.

She was just early.

Detroit is only just the beginning. When the next major financial crisis strikes, we are going to see a wave of municipal bankruptcies unlike anything we have ever seen before.

And of course the biggest debt problem of all in this country is the U.S. government. We are going to pay a great price for piling up nearly 17 trillion dollars of debt and over 200 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities.

All over the nation, our economic infrastructure is being gutted, debt levels are exploding and poverty is spreading. We are consuming far more wealth than we are producing, and our share of global GDP has been declining dramatically.

We have been living way above our means for so long that we think it is “normal”, but an extremely painful “adjustment” is coming and most Americans are not going to know how to handle it.

So don’t laugh at Detroit. The economic pain that Detroit is experiencing will be coming to your area of the country soon enough.[/quote]

That is unreal. Flat, Rod Serling voiced, Twilight Zone classic unreal. Fuck. How can the financial ignorance still be so loud around this country? can’t afford shit right now

And people laugh at those who are prepared for this kind of stuff happening. Who will be laughing in 20 years?

Sshhh, Bauber be quiet, don’t let out the secrets.

Its sad in reality, the people that could get out, have, and what are left are either turning to crime or becoming victims. Reminds me of the first Batman movie where they basically intended to lock down Gotham and watch it “tear itself apart.” What epic fore-shadowing.

They should bulldoze the entire city, and start over from scratch. Has to be better than this. And then they can choose their fresh start. I’m still astonished they haven’t called in the National Guard.

Detroit made one thing for 60+ years and did it well. The trickle-down employment kept everyone working even in unskilled jobs. Decimate the car industry and what do they have left? Not much.

For it to happen elsewhere is pretty remote unless something global hits the fan in the meantime.

Rob

Posted by Quasi in the other thread…looks like the Detroit city council is playing the dodge and weave.

http://www.freep.com/...WS01/307230095/

The Democratic way, promise the world, just don’t ask us how to pay for it.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The Democratic way, promise the world, just don’t ask us how to pay for it. [/quote]

Easy to do with someone else’s money… the true democratic-liberal way. I do smell a bailout though. There have been auto-industry bailouts in the past in Detroit, but nothing on a whole city scale.

Rob

[quote]bigflamer wrote:

25 Facts About The Fall Of Detroit That Will Leave You Shaking Your Head

It is so sad to watch one of America’s greatest cities die a horrible death. Once upon a time, the city of Detroit was a teeming metropolis of 1.8 million people and it had the highest per capita income in the United States. Now it is a rotting, decaying hellhole of about 700,000 people that the rest of the world makes jokes about. On Thursday, we learned that the decision had been made for the city of Detroit to formally file for Chapter 9 bankruptcy. It was going to be the largest municipal bankruptcy in the history of the United States by far, but on Friday it was stopped at least temporarily by an Ingham County judge. She ruled that Detroit’s bankruptcy filing violates the Michigan Constitution because it would result in reduced pension payments for retired workers. She also stated that Detroit’s bankruptcy filing was “also not honoring the (United States) president, who took (Detroit’s auto companies) out of bankruptcy”, and she ordered that a copy of her judgment be sent to Barack Obama. How “honoring the president” has anything to do with the bankruptcy of Detroit is a bit of a mystery, but what that judge has done is ensured that there will be months of legal wrangling ahead over Detroit’s money woes. It will be very interesting to see how all of this plays out. But one thing is for sure - the city of Detroit is flat broke. One of the greatest cities in the history of the world is just a shell of its former self. The following are 25 facts about the fall of Detroit that will leave you shaking your head…

  1. At this point, the city of Detroit owes money to more than 100,000 creditors.

  2. Detroit is facing $20 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities. That breaks down to more than $25,000 per resident.

  3. Back in 1960, the city of Detroit actually had the highest per-capita income in the entire nation.

  4. In 1950, there were about 296,000 manufacturing jobs in Detroit. Today, there are less than 27,000.

  5. Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.

  6. There are lots of houses available for sale in Detroit right now for $500 or less.

  7. At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in the city.

  8. About one-third of Detroit’s 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.

  9. An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.

  10. Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are working at this point.

  11. If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.

  12. Detroit was once the fourth-largest city in the United States, but over the past 60 years the population of Detroit has fallen by 63 percent.

  13. The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the casinos.

  14. There are 70 “Superfund” hazardous waste sites in Detroit.

  15. 40 percent of the street lights do not work.

  16. Only about a third of the ambulances are running.

  17. Some ambulances in the city of Detroit have been used for so long that they have more than 250,000 miles on them.

  18. Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been permanently closed down since 2008.

  19. The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40 percent over the past decade.

  20. When you call the police in Detroit, it takes them an average of 58 minutes to respond.

  21. Due to budget cutbacks, most police stations in Detroit are now closed to the public for 16 hours a day.

  22. The violent crime rate in Detroit is five times higher than the national average.

  23. The murder rate in Detroit is 11 times higher than it is in New York City.

  24. Today, police solve less than 10 percent of the crimes that are committed in Detroit.

  25. Crime has gotten so bad in Detroit that even the police are telling people to “enter Detroit at your own risk”.

It is easy to point fingers and mock Detroit, but the truth is that the rest of America is going down the exact same path that Detroit has gone down.

Detroit just got there first.

All over this country, there are hundreds of state and local governments that are also on the verge of financial ruin…

"Everyone will say, ‘Oh well, it’s Detroit. I thought it was already in bankruptcy,’ " said Michigan State University economist Eric Scorsone. “But Detroit is not unique. It’s the same in Chicago and New York and San Diego and San Jose. It’s a lot of major cities in this country. They may not be as extreme as Detroit, but a lot of them face the same problems.”

A while back, Meredith Whitney was highly criticized for predicting that there would be a huge wave of municipal defaults in this country. When it didn’t happen, the critics let her have it mercilessly.

But Meredith Whitney was not wrong.

She was just early.

Detroit is only just the beginning. When the next major financial crisis strikes, we are going to see a wave of municipal bankruptcies unlike anything we have ever seen before.

And of course the biggest debt problem of all in this country is the U.S. government. We are going to pay a great price for piling up nearly 17 trillion dollars of debt and over 200 trillion dollars of unfunded liabilities.

All over the nation, our economic infrastructure is being gutted, debt levels are exploding and poverty is spreading. We are consuming far more wealth than we are producing, and our share of global GDP has been declining dramatically.

We have been living way above our means for so long that we think it is “normal”, but an extremely painful “adjustment” is coming and most Americans are not going to know how to handle it.

So don’t laugh at Detroit. The economic pain that Detroit is experiencing will be coming to your area of the country soon enough.[/quote]

So what is your thoughts on this topic?

I will say if Houston does not change it Liberal ways this will come here. True Conservatives are able to sustain themselves through the tough times because they save their money. Liberals borrow and borrow till no one will lend to them. This is what is happening in Detroit. The ATM Machine, called bonds, have dried up. Washington D.C. better listen and stop their spending.

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
Detroit made one thing for 60+ years and did it well. The trickle-down employment kept everyone working even in unskilled jobs. Decimate the car industry and what do they have left? Not much.

For it to happen elsewhere is pretty remote unless something global hits the fan in the meantime.

Rob[/quote]

First part I completely agree with you. second part…I dunno. yes and no I suppose. the same kind of thing that happened in detroit? not likely. butbbankruptcy? completely–just look at all the cities in California on the verge or already under. it will most likely vary by state of.course

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
Detroit made one thing for 60+ years and did it well. The trickle-down employment kept everyone working even in unskilled jobs. Decimate the car industry and what do they have left? Not much.

For it to happen elsewhere is pretty remote unless something global hits the fan in the meantime.

Rob[/quote]

First part I completely agree with you. second part…I dunno. yes and no I suppose. the same kind of thing that happened in detroit? not likely. butbbankruptcy? completely–just look at all the cities in California on the verge or already under. it will most likely vary by state of.course[/quote]

I dont think by state, but by city that has a liberal ideology. Blue Cities will be first.

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
The Democratic way, promise the world, just don’t ask us how to pay for it. [/quote]

Easy to do with someone else’s money… the true democratic-liberal way. I do smell a bailout though. There have been auto-industry bailouts in the past in Detroit, but nothing on a whole city scale.

Rob[/quote]

Something ironic about a bankrupt government bailing out a bankrupt city.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]beachguy498 wrote:
Detroit made one thing for 60+ years and did it well. The trickle-down employment kept everyone working even in unskilled jobs. Decimate the car industry and what do they have left? Not much.

For it to happen elsewhere is pretty remote unless something global hits the fan in the meantime.

Rob[/quote]

First part I completely agree with you. second part…I dunno. yes and no I suppose. the same kind of thing that happened in detroit? not likely. butbbankruptcy? completely–just look at all the cities in California on the verge or already under. it will most likely vary by state of.course[/quote]

I dont think by state, but by city that has a liberal ideology. Blue Cities will be first.[/quote]

It is funny that you blame it all on democratic governments yet the largest recipients of government dollars are the fiscally “fit” red states. Maybe the blue states would be in better shape if they got back more than they put in like Texas.

Detroit certainly is in trouble but they would be in much better shape if they didn’t have huge holes blown in their budget by Snyder.