Detroit becomes Largest City in US History to File Bankruptcy

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
241

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

What is a living wage? Able to put food on the table, put a roof over your head, and clothes on your back. Minimum wage does do that. The issue is people want more. They want to live on more than they make. They dont just want food they want steak and lobster. They dont just want a roof over their head, they want a mansion. They dont want just clothes, they want Jordans, Ralph Lauren shirts, and expensive jeans. Minimum wage gives you a basic living, not a life of luxury. It is jealousy or some call it coveting. They want to take from the rich so they can feel more rich themselves.
[/quote]

Exactly, people with no real skills that would justify them earning a wage greater than “just getting by” believe that they are entitled to the same things that those that actually have set themselves apart have and more. A first year teacher in our district makes 32,100 in our district.
[/quote]

Interesting… so you’re telling me that the $20 per hour “livable wage” that Pittbull talks about actually makes almost 10,000 more per year than a first year teacher? (FYI, 20/hour is roughly 41,000 per year, gross).

Yeah, not buying that. “living wage” is significantly less than 40K a year unless you’re in a very high cost area (such as NYC…where you have to have a salary of approximately 100,000 to match the quality of life in my area that you get on roughly 40,000 per year. How’s that blue democrat ticket working out for them again?).

I lived on pretty much minimum wage…by myself, in an apartment with no roommates, with food and a phone…for a long time. It can be done. Maybe not if you have 5 kids, but it can be done.[/quote]

Of course it can, but somehow these people think they are entitled for everyone else to pay for them having kids.
[/quote]

Me as an accountant for that same district makes $18.75 and hour (for only a 235 day working year) which equates to $35,250 a year. I am married, the sole wage earner in my home and putting my wife through nursing school. But guess what, I have a cheap phone with a $25 a month basic plan and two paid for vehicles that I am praying make it till she finishes school. We don’t go out much but we do some and neither of us feel like we are deprived of anything. Its all about priorities.[/quote]

I get made fun of all the time for my cheapo cell phone. I hear “it’s only 30 extra dollars a month for a smart phone” all the time. The best part of giving up all this extraneous crap is that you never miss it. It’s death by a thousand cuts, 30 dollars more for a cell phone, 100+ dollars for cable TV and internet, eating out at dinner. These things over a year add up to thousands of dollars. Cut them out and minimum wage becomes very livable.

Oddly enough, once you learn to be content you manage your money better. When your income increases your lifestyle doesn’t and then you get to retire with a little dignity.[/quote]

Exactly. I am extremely excited about my wife getting a nursing job, not because we can start living more frivolously but because we are going to take her income and use it to pay off our house in large chunks while living off my salary. Also the nursing school allotment that will not longer be there will go towards at least one new car. [/quote]

If you look around only this forum you can see a pretty convincing trend. All of the people who are killing it financially don’t necessarily make a ton of money (some do), but all have similar beliefs when it comes to money and politics. Why is it that some people are capable of winning with 35k while others are fighting off bankruptcy? How can someone with an iPhone possibly convince me that they cannot afford health insurance? Being a financial loser has less to do with how much money you make, but rather how you manage it. These losers are a burden to their families, friends, and country and would rather complain about how you make too much and steal half your income than give up their ostentatious lifestyles.
[/quote]

This post chain should be a sticky…that gets posted whenever somebody DEMANDS more money and services.

The entitled generation needs to read this.

242

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

What is a living wage? Able to put food on the table, put a roof over your head, and clothes on your back. Minimum wage does do that. The issue is people want more. They want to live on more than they make. They dont just want food they want steak and lobster. They dont just want a roof over their head, they want a mansion. They dont want just clothes, they want Jordans, Ralph Lauren shirts, and expensive jeans. Minimum wage gives you a basic living, not a life of luxury. It is jealousy or some call it coveting. They want to take from the rich so they can feel more rich themselves.
[/quote]

Exactly, people with no real skills that would justify them earning a wage greater than “just getting by” believe that they are entitled to the same things that those that actually have set themselves apart have and more. A first year teacher in our district makes 32,100 in our district.
[/quote]

Interesting… so you’re telling me that the $20 per hour “livable wage” that Pittbull talks about actually makes almost 10,000 more per year than a first year teacher? (FYI, 20/hour is roughly 41,000 per year, gross).

Yeah, not buying that. “living wage” is significantly less than 40K a year unless you’re in a very high cost area (such as NYC…where you have to have a salary of approximately 100,000 to match the quality of life in my area that you get on roughly 40,000 per year. How’s that blue democrat ticket working out for them again?).

I lived on pretty much minimum wage…by myself, in an apartment with no roommates, with food and a phone…for a long time. It can be done. Maybe not if you have 5 kids, but it can be done.[/quote]

Of course it can, but somehow these people think they are entitled for everyone else to pay for them having kids.
[/quote]

Me as an accountant for that same district makes $18.75 and hour (for only a 235 day working year) which equates to $35,250 a year. I am married, the sole wage earner in my home and putting my wife through nursing school. But guess what, I have a cheap phone with a $25 a month basic plan and two paid for vehicles that I am praying make it till she finishes school. We don’t go out much but we do some and neither of us feel like we are deprived of anything. Its all about priorities.[/quote]

I get made fun of all the time for my cheapo cell phone. I hear “it’s only 30 extra dollars a month for a smart phone” all the time. The best part of giving up all this extraneous crap is that you never miss it. It’s death by a thousand cuts, 30 dollars more for a cell phone, 100+ dollars for cable TV and internet, eating out at dinner. These things over a year add up to thousands of dollars. Cut them out and minimum wage becomes very livable.

Oddly enough, once you learn to be content you manage your money better. When your income increases your lifestyle doesn’t and then you get to retire with a little dignity.[/quote]

Exactly. I am extremely excited about my wife getting a nursing job, not because we can start living more frivolously but because we are going to take her income and use it to pay off our house in large chunks while living off my salary. Also the nursing school allotment that will not longer be there will go towards at least one new car. [/quote]

If you look around only this forum you can see a pretty convincing trend. All of the people who are killing it financially don’t necessarily make a ton of money (some do), but all have similar beliefs when it comes to money and politics. Why is it that some people are capable of winning with 35k while others are fighting off bankruptcy? How can someone with an iPhone possibly convince me that they cannot afford health insurance? Being a financial loser has less to do with how much money you make, but rather how you manage it. These losers are a burden to their families, friends, and country and would rather complain about how you make too much and steal half your income than give up their ostentatious lifestyles.
[/quote]

Those who bust their ass for the money are not so quick to spend it on frivolous bullshit.

Those who garner money by “other means”, find it easy to spend so recklessly.

Think about it, how responsible would you be with someone else’s money ?[/quote]
Oh, you must mean like the banks.

243

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

What is a living wage? Able to put food on the table, put a roof over your head, and clothes on your back. Minimum wage does do that. The issue is people want more. They want to live on more than they make. They dont just want food they want steak and lobster. They dont just want a roof over their head, they want a mansion. They dont want just clothes, they want Jordans, Ralph Lauren shirts, and expensive jeans. Minimum wage gives you a basic living, not a life of luxury. It is jealousy or some call it coveting. They want to take from the rich so they can feel more rich themselves.
[/quote]

Exactly, people with no real skills that would justify them earning a wage greater than “just getting by” believe that they are entitled to the same things that those that actually have set themselves apart have and more. A first year teacher in our district makes 32,100 in our district.
[/quote]

Interesting… so you’re telling me that the $20 per hour “livable wage” that Pittbull talks about actually makes almost 10,000 more per year than a first year teacher? (FYI, 20/hour is roughly 41,000 per year, gross).

Yeah, not buying that. “living wage” is significantly less than 40K a year unless you’re in a very high cost area (such as NYC…where you have to have a salary of approximately 100,000 to match the quality of life in my area that you get on roughly 40,000 per year. How’s that blue democrat ticket working out for them again?).

I lived on pretty much minimum wage…by myself, in an apartment with no roommates, with food and a phone…for a long time. It can be done. Maybe not if you have 5 kids, but it can be done.[/quote]

Of course it can, but somehow these people think they are entitled for everyone else to pay for them having kids.
[/quote]

Me as an accountant for that same district makes $18.75 and hour (for only a 235 day working year) which equates to $35,250 a year. I am married, the sole wage earner in my home and putting my wife through nursing school. But guess what, I have a cheap phone with a $25 a month basic plan and two paid for vehicles that I am praying make it till she finishes school. We don’t go out much but we do some and neither of us feel like we are deprived of anything. Its all about priorities.[/quote]

I get made fun of all the time for my cheapo cell phone. I hear “it’s only 30 extra dollars a month for a smart phone” all the time. The best part of giving up all this extraneous crap is that you never miss it. It’s death by a thousand cuts, 30 dollars more for a cell phone, 100+ dollars for cable TV and internet, eating out at dinner. These things over a year add up to thousands of dollars. Cut them out and minimum wage becomes very livable.

Oddly enough, once you learn to be content you manage your money better. When your income increases your lifestyle doesn’t and then you get to retire with a little dignity.[/quote]

Exactly. I am extremely excited about my wife getting a nursing job, not because we can start living more frivolously but because we are going to take her income and use it to pay off our house in large chunks while living off my salary. Also the nursing school allotment that will not longer be there will go towards at least one new car. [/quote]

If you look around only this forum you can see a pretty convincing trend. All of the people who are killing it financially don’t necessarily make a ton of money (some do), but all have similar beliefs when it comes to money and politics. Why is it that some people are capable of winning with 35k while others are fighting off bankruptcy? How can someone with an iPhone possibly convince me that they cannot afford health insurance? Being a financial loser has less to do with how much money you make, but rather how you manage it. These losers are a burden to their families, friends, and country and would rather complain about how you make too much and steal half your income than give up their ostentatious lifestyles.
[/quote]

Those who bust their ass for the money are not so quick to spend it on frivolous bullshit.

Those who garner money by “other means”, find it easy to spend so recklessly.

Think about it, how responsible would you be with someone else’s money ?[/quote]
Oh, you must mean like the banks.[/quote]

Yep, hate them too.

244

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

It was a Republicans that changed American policy towards steel imports , Check it out , most of these towns and cities experiencing financial difficulties are Democrat because Unions tend to endorse Democrats . That is you Democratic link
[/quote]

Detroit isn’t a steel town, it’s Auto City. You can’t blame Reagan for making it prohibitively expensive to run a business in Detroit. If anything he made it easier to make cars in Detroit. Still defaulted.[/quote]

Have you ever been to Detroit ? Tractor’s Trailers have 10 axles and more , why do you suppose that is ? I will give you a hint “STEEL”
[/quote]

They buy steel…they don’t make it.

245

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

It was a Republicans that changed American policy towards steel imports , Check it out , most of these towns and cities experiencing financial difficulties are Democrat because Unions tend to endorse Democrats . That is you Democratic link
[/quote]

Detroit isn’t a steel town, it’s Auto City. You can’t blame Reagan for making it prohibitively expensive to run a business in Detroit. If anything he made it easier to make cars in Detroit. Still defaulted.[/quote]

Yes, it is a steel producing town. Mac steel is one of the largest producers left in the country.

The greatest cause of the cities problems are it’s legacy costs for pensions, the model of which most cities have based their pensions on. Detroit is but the first. Yes they have had a population decline, but underfunded pensions coupled with very low interest are what drove them into the ground.[/quote]

Yes, but it is inherently an auto town, the steel is incidental to the auto industry, that’s like claiming Detroit is a restaurant town because there are restaurants in Detroit.

246

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

LOL

The dude who wrote that is an admitted Marxist…

http://rdwolff.com/content/about

Stop wasting your time. We have a quite a bit of evidence that Marxism doesn’t work, in fact it does the opposite of work, literally… So don’t even bother. You are arguing with someone that can’t even see the difference between Cuba and say the US…

[/quote]

My opinion that very form of government if pure is good , the problem lays in corruption . Marxism may not have worked at a form of Government but it is a valid critique of OUR CORRUPT form of Capitalism
[/quote]

Capitalism isn’t a form of government. It is a form of economy. You can have capitalism under a Monarch.

247

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Socialism and Marxism could in theory work if all humans were benevolent and worked hard for the betterment of everyone around them. Yeah I don’t see that happening anytime soon/ ever.[/quote]

That works in small pockets called monasteries and convents, which requires consent by the individual and the society and takes between 6 and 12 years to be fully accepted.

248

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
"This greatest of countries was built on the inviolate supremacy of man?s right to exist. This country ? the product of reason ? could not survive on the morality of sacrifice. It was not built by men who sought self-immolation or by men who sought handouts. It could not stand on the mystic split that divorced man?s soul from his body. It could not live by the mystic doctrine that damned this earth as evil and those who succeeded on earth as depraved.

From its start, this country was a threat to the ancient rule of mystics. In the brilliant rocket-explosion of its youth, this country displayed to an incredulous world what greatness was possible to man, what happiness was possible on earth. It was one or the other: America or mystics. They mystics knew it; you didn?t. You let them infect you with the worship of need ? and this country became a giant in body with a mooching midget in place of its soul." - John Galt[/quote]

Did you just quote a fictional character?

249

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

What is a living wage? Able to put food on the table, put a roof over your head, and clothes on your back. Minimum wage does do that. The issue is people want more. They want to live on more than they make. They dont just want food they want steak and lobster. They dont just want a roof over their head, they want a mansion. They dont want just clothes, they want Jordans, Ralph Lauren shirts, and expensive jeans. Minimum wage gives you a basic living, not a life of luxury. It is jealousy or some call it coveting. They want to take from the rich so they can feel more rich themselves.
[/quote]

Exactly, people with no real skills that would justify them earning a wage greater than “just getting by” believe that they are entitled to the same things that those that actually have set themselves apart have and more. A first year teacher in our district makes 32,100 in our district.
[/quote]

Interesting… so you’re telling me that the $20 per hour “livable wage” that Pittbull talks about actually makes almost 10,000 more per year than a first year teacher? (FYI, 20/hour is roughly 41,000 per year, gross).

Yeah, not buying that. “living wage” is significantly less than 40K a year unless you’re in a very high cost area (such as NYC…where you have to have a salary of approximately 100,000 to match the quality of life in my area that you get on roughly 40,000 per year. How’s that blue democrat ticket working out for them again?).

I lived on pretty much minimum wage…by myself, in an apartment with no roommates, with food and a phone…for a long time. It can be done. Maybe not if you have 5 kids, but it can be done.[/quote]

Of course it can, but somehow these people think they are entitled for everyone else to pay for them having kids.
[/quote]

Me as an accountant for that same district makes $18.75 and hour (for only a 235 day working year) which equates to $35,250 a year. I am married, the sole wage earner in my home and putting my wife through nursing school. But guess what, I have a cheap phone with a $25 a month basic plan and two paid for vehicles that I am praying make it till she finishes school. We don’t go out much but we do some and neither of us feel like we are deprived of anything. Its all about priorities.[/quote]

I get made fun of all the time for my cheapo cell phone. I hear “it’s only 30 extra dollars a month for a smart phone” all the time. The best part of giving up all this extraneous crap is that you never miss it. It’s death by a thousand cuts, 30 dollars more for a cell phone, 100+ dollars for cable TV and internet, eating out at dinner. These things over a year add up to thousands of dollars. Cut them out and minimum wage becomes very livable.

Oddly enough, once you learn to be content you manage your money better. When your income increases your lifestyle doesn’t and then you get to retire with a little dignity.[/quote]

Exactly. I am extremely excited about my wife getting a nursing job, not because we can start living more frivolously but because we are going to take her income and use it to pay off our house in large chunks while living off my salary. Also the nursing school allotment that will not longer be there will go towards at least one new car. [/quote]

If you look around only this forum you can see a pretty convincing trend. All of the people who are killing it financially don’t necessarily make a ton of money (some do), but all have similar beliefs when it comes to money and politics. Why is it that some people are capable of winning with 35k while others are fighting off bankruptcy? How can someone with an iPhone possibly convince me that they cannot afford health insurance? Being a financial loser has less to do with how much money you make, but rather how you manage it. These losers are a burden to their families, friends, and country and would rather complain about how you make too much and steal half your income than give up their ostentatious lifestyles.
[/quote]

This post chain should be a sticky…that gets posted whenever somebody DEMANDS more money and services.

The entitled generation needs to read this.
[/quote]

I agree whole heartedly. You guys are killing it. Just give it some time and you to will be better for it. My wife is a nurse and I am thankful for her job.

250

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

LOL

The dude who wrote that is an admitted Marxist…

http://rdwolff.com/content/about

Stop wasting your time. We have a quite a bit of evidence that Marxism doesn’t work, in fact it does the opposite of work, literally… So don’t even bother. You are arguing with someone that can’t even see the difference between Cuba and say the US…

[/quote]

My opinion that very form of government if pure is good , the problem lays in corruption . Marxism may not have worked at a form of Government but it is a valid critique of OUR CORRUPT form of Capitalism
[/quote]

Capitalism isn’t a form of government. It is a form of economy. You can have capitalism under a Monarch.[/quote]

It is supposed to be a form of economy but if you put the cart before the horse you have American Capitalism .

251

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...s-dwindle.html

I wish the worst on all of the owners that would do that to these animals. Once again an example of something that suffers because of man’s inhumility, laziness, and self-serving tendencies.

252

From this point forward, it will be much more costly for a city to seek a bond from a financial institution since creditors may get shafted getting payment on their loan.

But the voters will never understand this.

253

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
From this point forward, it will be much more costly for a city to seek a bond from a financial institution since creditors may get shafted getting payment on their loan.

But the voters will never understand this. [/quote]

And Unions.

254

we should just rasie minimum wage to $16 bucks in Detroit only. I understand it works in Australia so it will work in Detroit, right Zep?

255

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
From this point forward, it will be much more costly for a city to seek a bond from a financial institution since creditors may get shafted getting payment on their loan.

But the voters will never understand this. [/quote]

And Unions.
[/quote]

Unions won’t care.

There is no universe outside the dues they collect. Nothing else matters to them.

Unions are supporting perverted San Diego Mayor Bob Filner, for no other reason than protecting the perks they received when electing him.

256

Is anyone looking in to investing in Muni bonds after this disaster is over? What coupon rate would you expect?

257

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:
Is anyone looking in to investing in Muni bonds after this disaster is over? What coupon rate would you expect?[/quote]

If they were to float a new bond or the new restructured bonds? I might take a 25% coupon to buy, but who knows where the coupon will be.

If you are talking about old bonds there will not be a coupon because they will dissappear if the judge allows them to restructure their debt, so the old bonds will be no more.

258

[quote]johnnytang24 wrote:
Is anyone looking in to investing in Muni bonds after this disaster is over? What coupon rate would you expect?[/quote]

No… I’m too busy looking at your damned avatar… bastard.

Buying any type of bond is a bad idea right now. Unless things recently changed (and Detroit going to shit isn’t it) bonds are a very poor investment at this time due to interest rates.

259

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[quote]dmaddox wrote:

State-appointed emergency manager Kevyn Orr on Thursday asked a federal judge permission to place the city into Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection
[/quote]

The great collapse in on the way…then we get WWIII.

The next 20 years are going to be bad. Then we will enter a new Golden Age which will be permanent, based on Nanotech and Graphene.

260

this is an example of what I will call disingenuity . On one hand all the conservatives are clamouring how America is going to hell in a hand basket . And on the other hand they are saying life has never been better for the poor . Go to an old Steel Town and tell the people in the Ghetto that life has never been better for them , I dare you :slight_smile: