Denial, Privilege and Life as a Majority

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

I have read only the last page of the thread: mazilla vs prof X. I wanted to tell of my experience and here comment from Prof X.

One of my roomates in grad school now is a black guy initially from lower-middle class. Very often he brings up racism question; often with minimal triggers. News on TV, newspapers, talks with his friends - everything feels somewhat racially colored. I’ve never heard ANYONE use the phrase “white people” some much. He never lets me forget that he is black and I am white.

On the other hand there is a black girl in the building with whom I never even think: o, she is black. Racism IS discussed between us and she gives a much more objective view of it, without bitterness (I have to say that the position prof X present lacks that emotional bitterness as well).

Pretty much I wanted to say that there ARE cases of blacks “supporting” racial gaps by constatnly reminding of the differences, in a bitter, non-constructive way. Optimum lies somewhere inbetween

102

Interesting post. It is accurate to some extent, but its major flaw is that it commits the very logical fallacy it is attempting to point out. Not every white person feels or thinks as described. Do most of them - yeah, I think so. Most of any group simply follow, whether the subject under discussion is race, exercise, sex, whatever.

Being black in America is very different from being white, and it is so even for those that mostly reject what is promoted on TV and elsewhere as “black culture”, simply because of the prevalent white viewpoint.

My wife and I have very close friends who happen to be a mixed race couple. Close enough that we have become the adopted grandparants of their son. We visit each other often, and race almost never comes up, but it is still there. It is like a barrier that has to be scaled to get at the person on the other side.

Once in a while, though, it pops up, most recently after they visited her family in the northeast. Tom is a very large and itimidating, at least in appearance, black man. He spoke about the experience of visiting a rural town in NH where often, he was the only black person in sight. He was often very uncomfortable, was openly stared at, sometimes with fear, sometimes with open hostility. Ironically, he is the most gentle and softspoken person I know, and it was clear that he was hurt by the experience.

Point of the story? There is no analogous experience for me. I will never be in a restaurant, or store, and be the only white person. If I were, the black people there would not look at me as a potential threat, regardless of my physical size.

All any of us can do is resolve to take all those we meet as individuals, aand judge them on only three things: What they say, what they do, and how well the two match up.

“Every time you shake someone’s hand
And you share neither color nor creed
You have to overcome the obstacles
Of history”

           --- Bad Religion
103

[quote]doogie wrote:
This thread hurts my head.

Does anyone here watch THE BOONDOCKS on Comedy Central?[/quote]

The best thing ever. Huey is the man! Some episodes have been a little weak, but the first one was amazing.

104

[quote]skor wrote:
I have read only the last page of the thread: mazilla vs prof X. I wanted to tell of my experience and here comment from Prof X.

One of my roomates in grad school now is a black guy initially from lower-middle class. Very often he brings up racism question; often with minimal triggers. News on TV, newspapers, talks with his friends - everything feels somewhat racially colored. I’ve never heard ANYONE use the phrase “white people” some much. He never lets me forget that he is black and I am white.

On the other hand there is a black girl in the building with whom I never even think: o, she is black. Racism IS discussed between us and she gives a much more objective view of it, without bitterness (I have to say that the position prof X present lacks that emotional bitterness as well).

Pretty much I wanted to say that there ARE cases of blacks “supporting” racial gaps by constatnly reminding of the differences, in a bitter, non-constructive way. Optimum lies somewhere inbetween[/quote]

You should probably realize as well that most blacks will openly admit that the racism seen by black females is often and usually less than the response received by black males. Black males are often seen as a threat in certain social situations.

With that in mind, it surprises me none that a black man who has experienced it more would have more emotion when discussing it.

105

I think that a few people keep bringing up the “bitter black man” theory as if this is what is creating a situation in society.

I hate to break it to you, but if there is such as thing as a “bitter black man”, it is often because society has made him bitter with it’s mistreatment when he has tried to fit in as an equal.

Blaming him for being bitter and seeing issues where others see none doesn’t equate to him creating issues where things would be rosy only if he didn’t.

Honestly, it seems to me as if minorities have to fight for equity with one hand tied behind their backs. Everyone just says, bitter “minority” person whenever something happens, never mind the years or decades of negative treatment that have lead to that.

Yes, at some point, both sides will have to come together and understand each other. However, this doesn’t mean that you get to point to the minority group and say, yeah, you need to think more about us. Basically, it will be up to the majority to change the way things are… or continue to deny the existence of any differential treatment continuing to this day.

While none of us can be directly responsible for the past, that doesn’t mean that we can dismiss it as a non-event. The repurcussions of events in the past live for generations. There is nothing wrong with realizing and accepting that fact. This has nothing to do with accepting blame or ever being able to make things right.

Nothing will ever undo the past. I don’t think many people are expecting anyone to ever try. Whether or not you are in the majority or in the minority, it is everyone’s responsibility to try to do the right thing and move towards a better system.

Isn’t it about time?

106

[quote]vroom wrote:
I think that a few people keep bringing up the “bitter black man” theory as if this is what is creating a situation in society.

I hate to break it to you, but if there is such as thing as a “bitter black man”, it is often because society has made him bitter with it’s mistreatment when he has tried to fit in as an equal.

Blaming him for being bitter and seeing issues where others see none doesn’t equate to him creating issues where things would be rosy only if he didn’t.

Honestly, it seems to me as if minorities have to fight for equity with one hand tied behind their backs. Everyone just says, bitter “minority” person whenever something happens, never mind the years or decades of negative treatment that have lead to that.

Yes, at some point, both sides will have to come together and understand each other. However, this doesn’t mean that you get to point to the minority group and say, yeah, you need to think more about us. Basically, it will be up to the majority to change the way things are… or continue to deny the existence of any differential treatment continuing to this day.

While none of us can be directly responsible for the past, that doesn’t mean that we can dismiss it as a non-event. The repurcussions of events in the past live for generations. There is nothing wrong with realizing and accepting that fact. This has nothing to do with accepting blame or ever being able to make things right.

Nothing will ever undo the past. I don’t think many people are expecting anyone to ever try. Whether or not you are in the majority or in the minority, it is everyone’s responsibility to try to do the right thing and move towards a better system.

Isn’t it about time?[/quote]

Excellent post vroom. This was the whole point of the article. However, there are always those who want to arugue otherwise.

107

To those of you that have responded to my posts on this thread and it seems that I haven’t gotten back to you, I will a little later. I have been very busy lately and haven’t had the time to respond.

108

How anyone can say that there is not a privelege that comes with being white is simply beyond me.

Many of the people that have responded have themselves proved exactly what the article was trying to prove- “Its the blacks’s problem within their own group mentality”

Its humorous how nowadays, with white folks, its “Well, why are they making a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”, when for the past three hundred years, it was probably the blacks asking, “Why the hell are they making such a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”

Not too mention there are very few people who I think have any idea what white privelege has done for whites in the past hundred years, and how it has defined much about the socioeconomic status that each one of us deals with everyday right now.

109

[quote]vroom wrote:
I think that a few people keep bringing up the “bitter black man” theory as if this is what is creating a situation in society.

I hate to break it to you, but if there is such as thing as a “bitter black man”, it is often because society has made him bitter with it’s mistreatment when he has tried to fit in as an equal.

Blaming him for being bitter and seeing issues where others see none doesn’t equate to him creating issues where things would be rosy only if he didn’t.

Honestly, it seems to me as if minorities have to fight for equity with one hand tied behind their backs. Everyone just says, bitter “minority” person whenever something happens, never mind the years or decades of negative treatment that have lead to that.

Yes, at some point, both sides will have to come together and understand each other. However, this doesn’t mean that you get to point to the minority group and say, yeah, you need to think more about us. Basically, it will be up to the majority to change the way things are… or continue to deny the existence of any differential treatment continuing to this day.

While none of us can be directly responsible for the past, that doesn’t mean that we can dismiss it as a non-event. The repurcussions of events in the past live for generations. There is nothing wrong with realizing and accepting that fact. This has nothing to do with accepting blame or ever being able to make things right.

Nothing will ever undo the past. I don’t think many people are expecting anyone to ever try. Whether or not you are in the majority or in the minority, it is everyone’s responsibility to try to do the right thing and move towards a better system.

Isn’t it about time?[/quote]

What better system do you have in mind? What country on this earth has a system designed for the minority? It is fantasyland to think that, as a minority, I can go to any country and expect that system to bend to my needs and wants. As a minority, I need to fit into the majority system, not the other way around.

Does that mean I have to stand poor treatment, discrimination, etc.? Hell no! What that means is that the system doesn’t shut me out, it allows me to become a part of the system equally, but doesn’t support or reject my own cultural practices.

110

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
How anyone can say that there is not a privelege that comes with being white is simply beyond me.

Many of the people that have responded have themselves proved exactly what the article was trying to prove- “Its the blacks’s problem within their own group mentality”

Its humorous how nowadays, with white folks, its “Well, why are they making a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”, when for the past three hundred years, it was probably the blacks asking, “Why the hell are they making such a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”

Not too mention there are very few people who I think have any idea what white privelege has done for whites in the past hundred years, and how it has defined much about the socioeconomic status that each one of us deals with everyday right now. [/quote]

It’s not about “white” privilege. It is majority privilege. If Latinos were the majority in the US (and we soon will be), the system would then be slanted for us, and not whites. It’s not racial. It’s based on the largest group.

111

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
How anyone can say that there is not a privelege that comes with being white is simply beyond me.

Many of the people that have responded have themselves proved exactly what the article was trying to prove- “Its the blacks’s problem within their own group mentality”

Its humorous how nowadays, with white folks, its “Well, why are they making a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”, when for the past three hundred years, it was probably the blacks asking, “Why the hell are they making such a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”

Not too mention there are very few people who I think have any idea what white privelege has done for whites in the past hundred years, and how it has defined much about the socioeconomic status that each one of us deals with everyday right now. [/quote]

Why is it that this would only get jumped on if it was written by either me or Al? I have seen Vroom’s posts in other threads get completely avoided when he was saying exactly what I was…only to have mine argued. What is the difference? Mind you, I am speaking of one or two particular posters. Lorisco and Bigflamer are not who I am speaking of.

112

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
How anyone can say that there is not a privelege that comes with being white is simply beyond me.

Many of the people that have responded have themselves proved exactly what the article was trying to prove- “Its the blacks’s problem within their own group mentality”

Its humorous how nowadays, with white folks, its “Well, why are they making a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”, when for the past three hundred years, it was probably the blacks asking, “Why the hell are they making such a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”

Not too mention there are very few people who I think have any idea what white privelege has done for whites in the past hundred years, and how it has defined much about the socioeconomic status that each one of us deals with everyday right now.

It’s not about “white” privilege. It is majority privilege. If Latinos were the majority in the US (and we soon will be), the system would then be slanted for us, and not whites. It’s not racial. It’s based on the largest group.
[/quote]

It is based on the largest group…and it is also racial.

113

[quote]What better system do you have in mind? What country on this earth has a system designed for the minority? It is fantasyland to think that, as a minority, I can go to any country and expect that system to bend to my needs and wants. As a minority, I need to fit into the majority system, not the other way around.

Does that mean I have to stand poor treatment, discrimination, etc.? Hell no! What that means is that the system doesn’t shut me out, it allows me to become a part of the system equally, but doesn’t support or reject my own cultural practices.[/quote]

Sigh. Please, I was merely talking about people coexisting peacefully without having to worry about discrimination and so on. Let’s get past the silly political labels and all that seems to follow from them.

114

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Why is it that this would only get jumped on if it was written by either me or Al? I have seen Vroom’s posts in other threads get completely avoided when he was saying exactly what I was…only to have mine argued. What is the difference? Mind you, I am speaking of one or two particular posters. Lorisco and Bigflamer are not who I am speaking of.[/quote]

You have a persecution complex.

115

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
How anyone can say that there is not a privelege that comes with being white is simply beyond me.

Many of the people that have responded have themselves proved exactly what the article was trying to prove- “Its the blacks’s problem within their own group mentality”

Its humorous how nowadays, with white folks, its “Well, why are they making a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”, when for the past three hundred years, it was probably the blacks asking, “Why the hell are they making such a big deal about skin color? Aren’t you supposed to judge by the man?”

Not too mention there are very few people who I think have any idea what white privelege has done for whites in the past hundred years, and how it has defined much about the socioeconomic status that each one of us deals with everyday right now.

It’s not about “white” privilege. It is majority privilege. If Latinos were the majority in the US (and we soon will be), the system would then be slanted for us, and not whites. It’s not racial. It’s based on the largest group.

It is based on the largest group…and it is also racial.[/quote]

So once Latinos are the largest majority in the US you believe that the system (business, etc) will stay focused on whites while ignoring the majority?

That is not good business sense and I doubt that would happen.

Or are you just referring to the black experience and not other minorities, as I realize that it is different?

116

[quote]vroom wrote:
What better system do you have in mind? What country on this earth has a system designed for the minority? It is fantasyland to think that, as a minority, I can go to any country and expect that system to bend to my needs and wants. As a minority, I need to fit into the majority system, not the other way around.

Does that mean I have to stand poor treatment, discrimination, etc.? Hell no! What that means is that the system doesn’t shut me out, it allows me to become a part of the system equally, but doesn’t support or reject my own cultural practices.

Sigh. Please, I was merely talking about people coexisting peacefully without having to worry about discrimination and so on. Let’s get past the silly political labels and all that seems to follow from them.[/quote]

Come on vroom, try and keep up. No one is taking about coexisting peacefully without discrimination. The thread is about the preference given to the majority.

I believe it is given based purely on the fact that they outnumber everyone else. Al and Pro X thinks it is racial as well, but they have yet to articulate why they think that is.

I think a system can be slanted to a certain groups’ preferences without discriminating against other groups. For example, (I know this is a stenotype, but just get past that) all whites like white bread.

So you, as a non-white, go into a store and want whole-wheat bread, but find there is a limited selection if any of whole-wheat bread, but there is lots of white bread. So that store is catering to the majority (because they have the money, or most of it) and not the minority.

Is that discrimination or just good business sense?

117

[quote]So you, as a non-white, go into a store and want whole-wheat bread, but find there is a limited selection if any of whole-wheat bread, but there is lots of white bread. So that store is catering to the majority (because they have the money, or most of it) and not the minority.

Is that discrimination or just good business sense?[/quote]

LOL! Dude, you are telling me to catch up, but you are talking about this issue in terms of business preferences.

AHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHA!

118

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

So once Latinos are the largest majority in the US you believe that the system (business, etc) will stay focused on whites while ignoring the majority?

That is not good business sense and I doubt that would happen.

Or are you just referring to the black experience and not other minorities, as I realize that it is different?

[/quote]

Did you just directly relate society in terms of tradition, opinions and image to “what sells”? You truly think that biases are based on what’s hot right now in winter wear? My God, this is unbelievable.

119

[quote]vroom wrote:
So you, as a non-white, go into a store and want whole-wheat bread, but find there is a limited selection if any of whole-wheat bread, but there is lots of white bread. So that store is catering to the majority (because they have the money, or most of it) and not the minority.

Is that discrimination or just good business sense?

LOL! Dude, you are telling me to catch up, but you are talking about this issue in terms of business preferences.

AHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHA![/quote]

Grow up man! Dude, open your eyes, what do you think makes the world turn? Are you so naive to not know that most all political and social actions can be tied to economics? Open a history book once in a while Bro.

120

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

So once Latinos are the largest majority in the US you believe that the system (business, etc) will stay focused on whites while ignoring the majority?

That is not good business sense and I doubt that would happen.

Or are you just referring to the black experience and not other minorities, as I realize that it is different?

Did you just directly relate society in terms of tradition, opinions and image to “what sells”? You truly think that biases are based on what’s hot right now in winter wear? My God, this is unbelievable.
[/quote]

No, you are putting words in my mouth.

I’m just stating the facts; that historically most all political and social actions have been motivated by money and economics. For example, the American civil war was about rich slave owners wanting to keep cheep labor so they could produce cotton and other products with little cost and huge profits. Are you so naive to think that they just wanted to keep slaves because it was fun to have someone to beat and take out the trash? And that they were willing to die for that “fun”? Wake up Bro!