Defining a 'True Christian'?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Finding your own path is certainly the way to go. But not unlike your body if you fail to “train” you will begin to lose what you have. By joining a church you will be able to draw even closer to Jesus Christ and hear and learn God’s word. You are also able to help others who are looking for assistance usually spiritually. So, when you find the right church it’s all good. Consider it my friend.

As to your dream, I’ve been thinking about that and as I read it I felt that it was of a prophetic nature. Here’s my quick read if you don’t mind.

The building that you were in represented your old nature. It was being destroyed even though you thought that it (stone) could never be destroyed. When you were walking with the group of faceless people they represented the masses who are lost. When you refused to go into that one area where everyone was going you were refusing to follow the crowd. And I believe that the symbol that you saw represented even more than the crowd but I’ll reserve judgement on that until you give me a clearer explanation. When you returned to where the building was and saw Jesus once again that meant that while you were tempted to follow the crowd you showed restraint and returned to the master.

Well there you have it. Tell me what you think Matty.[/quote]

That’s a fine interpretation ZEB, thank you for that. We have about the same interpretations for it. I look at the upside-down pentagram as the bad things that I had brought into my life, and that I had finally been able to recognize them for the things that they were.

Before, I had no sense of who I was, or any self-worth. Very low self esteem, my life had become so fucked up that I couldn’t look at myself in the mirror before I turned myself in.

While I was in I completed a bible study course too. For completing it I got a bible with my name embossed(?) on the cover in gold, which was a nice extra incentive to work towards.
The chaplain was RC. He explained to me a bit about the workings of the RCC. The hierarchy of it. Very nice man, Polish born.[/quote]

I, of course, would not choose the Catholic church for many reasons. Not the least of which is that they do not preach from the Bible as much as I like and most importantly they do not encourage their members to read the Bible (at least not in the ones I’ve attended). But with that said, there are just as many Catholics going to heaven (proportionally) than those of other Christian faiths. But my desire is to grow in my faith and it seems like it is more difficult to do that in the Catholic church. As a non-denominational Christian I am actively involved in Bible study, helping others in various ways and it seems much closer to what a Christian community would be like. I never felt that in the Catholic church I attended (that isn’t to say it isn’t there in other churches).

Anyway, I’m glad that both our interpretations mesh. You’ve been blessed by that dream my friend! God called you and were smart enough to listen and follow.

62

[quote]McG78 wrote:
Even the “modern” English translations of the Bible differ. For instance, compare the King James Version of the Bible with the New American Standard regarding transubstantion.[/quote]

They differ but not in meaning. For example one might say “he then died”. While another might say “he then fell asleep”. And of course the word “sleep” was commonly used for the word dead. It was a more gentile way of saying it. Just as “with child” is the gentile way of saying pregnant. Different words, same meaning.

63

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]doogie wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
In addition to this the Dead Sea scrolls have verified every word of the OT. It’s authentic, no question.
[/quote]

Are you serious? Where’s Noah’s ark? Where is the tree of life?[/quote]

You’re taking ZEB’s words wrong. Calm down there youngster.[/quote]

That happens quite frequently in these religious threads Brother.

64

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I, of course, would not choose the Catholic church for many reasons. Not the least of which is that they do not preach from the Bible as much as I like and most importantly they do not encourage their members to read the Bible (at least not in the ones I’ve attended). But with that said, there are just as many Catholics going to heaven (proportionally) than those of other Christian faiths. But my desire is to grow in my faith and it seems like it is more difficult to do that in the Catholic church. As a non-denominational Christian I am actively involved in Bible study, helping others in various ways and it seems much closer to what a Christian community would be like. I never felt that in the Catholic church I attended (that isn’t to say it isn’t there in other churches).

Anyway, I’m glad that both our interpretations mesh. You’ve been blessed by that dream my friend! God called you and were smart enough to listen and follow.[/quote]

Thank you ZEB.
I wasn’t saying that I’m Roman Catholic or follow the RC and their teachings. I was just pointing out who helped me as a sort of medium in my bible study.
I think Brother Chris does the same sort of job as a prison chaplain.
If non-denominational means that you don’t belong to any particular sect/branch/church of Christianity, then that is where I am too.

65

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I, of course, would not choose the Catholic church for many reasons. Not the least of which is that they do not preach from the Bible as much as I like and most importantly they do not encourage their members to read the Bible (at least not in the ones I’ve attended). But with that said, there are just as many Catholics going to heaven (proportionally) than those of other Christian faiths. But my desire is to grow in my faith and it seems like it is more difficult to do that in the Catholic church. As a non-denominational Christian I am actively involved in Bible study, helping others in various ways and it seems much closer to what a Christian community would be like. I never felt that in the Catholic church I attended (that isn’t to say it isn’t there in other churches).

Anyway, I’m glad that both our interpretations mesh. You’ve been blessed by that dream my friend! God called you and were smart enough to listen and follow.[/quote]

Thank you ZEB.
I wasn’t saying that I’m Roman Catholic or follow the RC and their teachings. I was just pointing out who helped me as a sort of medium in my bible study.
I think Brother Chris does the same sort of job as a prison chaplain.
If non-denominational means that you don’t belong to any particular sect/branch/church of Christianity, then that is where I am too.
[/quote]

Once again though keep in mind you have to get to the gym to get bigger and stronger - And you have to get to a (good bible believing) church to grow spiritually.

I won’t bother you anymore about this I promise.

:slight_smile:

66

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Once again though keep in mind you have to get to the gym to get bigger and stronger - And you have to get to a (good bible believing) church to grow spiritually.

I won’t bother you anymore about this I promise.

:slight_smile:
[/quote]

It’s ok to keep talking about this, I’m young and don’t know much.
In prison, they would have church on Sundays, but I wouldn’t go or anything. But a few of us, we’d have small group sessions(outisde of Sunday church), where we’d talk about our beliefs and the different issues or problems we were experiencing.
To me, I guess I treat church as more of a verb than a noun.

67

I’m not able to tell you “what a true christian is” but I am able to say that I’ve been told by posters on this very forum that I am not one. Apparently “real christians” can see each other through the interwebz.

68

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]McG78 wrote:
Even the “modern” English translations of the Bible differ. For instance, compare the King James Version of the Bible with the New American Standard regarding transubstantion.[/quote]

They differ but not in meaning. For example one might say “he then died”. While another might say “he then fell asleep”. And of course the word “sleep” was commonly used for the word dead. It was a more gentile way of saying it. Just as “with child” is the gentile way of saying pregnant. Different words, same meaning. [/quote]

The King James Version bastardized the passages about the bread and wine becoming the actual body and blood of Christ.

69

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I’m not able to tell you “what a true christian is” but I am able to say that I’ve been told by posters on this very forum that I am not one. Apparently “real christians” can see each other through the interwebz. [/quote]

This isn’t complicated - Do believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and accept him as your savior?

If you believe this you’re a Christian.

POOF

70

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Once again though keep in mind you have to get to the gym to get bigger and stronger - And you have to get to a (good bible believing) church to grow spiritually.

I won’t bother you anymore about this I promise.

:slight_smile:
[/quote]

It’s ok to keep talking about this, I’m young and don’t know much.
In prison, they would have church on Sundays, but I wouldn’t go or anything. But a few of us, we’d have small group sessions(outisde of Sunday church), where we’d talk about our beliefs and the different issues or problems we were experiencing.
To me, I guess I treat church as more of a verb than a noun.[/quote]

Prison? When did this happen?

71

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Prison? When did this happen? [/quote]

That’s when I had that dream(Summer 2006) ZEB.
I was in jail from July 2005-December 2007.
Finished parole last year(October/09).

72

I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church. It was responsible for spreading Christianity throughout Western Europe no matter what corruptions took place during the high middle ages. I disagree with its teachings on veneration of the saints, church hierarchy, and purgatory, but I feel those are non essential doctrine. I think that actually, a lot of main line Protestant branches could take an example from the Catholic Church in some ideas of penance and the remembrance of Christ’s suffering.

73

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Once again though keep in mind you have to get to the gym to get bigger and stronger - And you have to get to a (good bible believing) church to grow spiritually.

I won’t bother you anymore about this I promise.

:slight_smile:
[/quote]

It’s ok to keep talking about this, I’m young and don’t know much.
In prison, they would have church on Sundays, but I wouldn’t go or anything. But a few of us, we’d have small group sessions(outisde of Sunday church), where we’d talk about our beliefs and the different issues or problems we were experiencing.
To me, I guess I treat church as more of a verb than a noun.[/quote]

Church = Faithful, Church =/= building, or service.

I got to Mass, I am a part of the Church. Church is a noun, it is the physical Church or congregation of the Catholic Church. Mass is also a noun, you go to Mass.

74

[quote]BBriere wrote:
I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church. It was responsible for spreading Christianity throughout Western Europe no matter what corruptions took place during the high middle ages. I disagree with its teachings on veneration of the saints, church hierarchy, and purgatory, but I feel those are non essential doctrine. I think that actually, a lot of main line Protestant branches could take an example from the Catholic Church in some ideas of penance and the remembrance of Christ’s suffering. [/quote]

I’ll have to disagree, the Saints are important, they support us and give us examples of God’s faith in his adopted family of sinners. Purgatory is important too, as no one unclean enters Heaven, and the Church hierarchy is important because of pragmatic reasons as well as the fact Jesus established the Church.

75

I get what you’re saying BC, and I see how I fucked up my grammar.
I meant it more like when we were having our church session, it was the act of participating that made it ‘church’ for me.

76

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church. It was responsible for spreading Christianity throughout Western Europe no matter what corruptions took place during the high middle ages. I disagree with its teachings on veneration of the saints, church hierarchy, and purgatory, but I feel those are non essential doctrine. I think that actually, a lot of main line Protestant branches could take an example from the Catholic Church in some ideas of penance and the remembrance of Christ’s suffering. [/quote]

I’ll have to disagree, the Saints are important, they support us and give us examples of God’s faith in his adopted family of sinners. Purgatory is important too, as no one unclean enters Heaven, and the Church hierarchy is important because of pragmatic reasons as well as the fact Jesus established the Church.[/quote]

And that is good that we can disagree on those issues, but we still agree on the most essential doctrine: Christ crucified.

77

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church. It was responsible for spreading Christianity throughout Western Europe no matter what corruptions took place during the high middle ages. I disagree with its teachings on veneration of the saints, church hierarchy, and purgatory, but I feel those are non essential doctrine. I think that actually, a lot of main line Protestant branches could take an example from the Catholic Church in some ideas of penance and the remembrance of Christ’s suffering. [/quote]

I’ll have to disagree, the Saints are important, they support us and give us examples of God’s faith in his adopted family of sinners. Purgatory is important too, as no one unclean enters Heaven, and the Church hierarchy is important because of pragmatic reasons as well as the fact Jesus established the Church.[/quote]

And that is good that we can disagree on those issues, but we still agree on the most essential doctrine: Christ crucified. [/quote]

Amen!

78

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I get what you’re saying BC, and I see how I fucked up my grammar.
I meant it more like when we were having our church session, it was the act of participating that made it ‘church’ for me.[/quote]

Ahh, okay. I gotcha! Well, I call that mass and my protestant brothers call it service, unless they are high-church.

79

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

You believe that stars are millions of light years away right? How do you know? Have you ever measured them?[/quote]

Yup. I believe in a lot of stuff I dont “know” and havent verified with my own two eyes.

But none of the stuff I believe goes against all the other things I see all the time. I dont believe anyone, anywhere, ever, has been able to levitate, because I see the effect of gravity on everyone all the time, without exception. Likewise I dont believe in other mythological claims, be they from christianity, greeks, romans, or anywhere else. I dont believe Buddha got up as soon as he was born and lotus petals blossomed in his footsteps - to believe this would go against everything I’ve ever seen regarding infants and plants.

Also, I dont have any logical reason to question those who say stars are millions of light-years away. I dont see how they could be trying to advance an agenda with that. However, when a group of people tell me things, like an omnipotent being controls the universe and only through them can I be saved from eternal torment when I die - oh, yeah, and I should give them money, I have good and clear reasons to question their motives. [/quote]

Well, first, your website makes no clear mention as to whether the extra prophecies were found in the Canon of the Bible. Admittedly, there were around 9 previously unknown Psalms that were found. None of which change the meanings of the Book of Psalms. The extra Biblical stories of people from the Bible are found in a paraphrasing of the Book of Genesis. Since around 60% of the Dead Sea Scrolls are extra Biblical, many things have been found that don’t coincide with the Bible. The scroll it comes from is not considered the Book of Genesis, just a collection of stories regarding Genesis, that jumps from one subject to the next.

Second, our discussion is over since you are just pushing the same rehashed idea that Christianity is just some invention by money/power hungry leaders trying to pull the wool over someone’s eyes. You may believe that Judeo-Christian beliefs are really some millenia old conspiracy theory if you want. I’m not arguing the validity of Christianity again. Good day and God bless you.[/quote]

“Since around 60% of the Dead Sea Scrolls are extra Biblical, many things have been found that don’t coincide with the Bible.”

The fuck happened to “virtually identical”?

How about we’re done because you people cant be honest and consistent about anything?

“Buh, well, its virtually identical except for all the parts that dont coincide.”

80

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

You believe that stars are millions of light years away right? How do you know? Have you ever measured them?[/quote]

Yup. I believe in a lot of stuff I dont “know” and havent verified with my own two eyes.

But none of the stuff I believe goes against all the other things I see all the time. I dont believe anyone, anywhere, ever, has been able to levitate, because I see the effect of gravity on everyone all the time, without exception. Likewise I dont believe in other mythological claims, be they from christianity, greeks, romans, or anywhere else. I dont believe Buddha got up as soon as he was born and lotus petals blossomed in his footsteps - to believe this would go against everything I’ve ever seen regarding infants and plants.

Also, I dont have any logical reason to question those who say stars are millions of light-years away. I dont see how they could be trying to advance an agenda with that. However, when a group of people tell me things, like an omnipotent being controls the universe and only through them can I be saved from eternal torment when I die - oh, yeah, and I should give them money, I have good and clear reasons to question their motives. [/quote]

Well, first, your website makes no clear mention as to whether the extra prophecies were found in the Canon of the Bible. Admittedly, there were around 9 previously unknown Psalms that were found. None of which change the meanings of the Book of Psalms. The extra Biblical stories of people from the Bible are found in a paraphrasing of the Book of Genesis. Since around 60% of the Dead Sea Scrolls are extra Biblical, many things have been found that don’t coincide with the Bible. The scroll it comes from is not considered the Book of Genesis, just a collection of stories regarding Genesis, that jumps from one subject to the next.

Second, our discussion is over since you are just pushing the same rehashed idea that Christianity is just some invention by money/power hungry leaders trying to pull the wool over someone’s eyes. You may believe that Judeo-Christian beliefs are really some millenia old conspiracy theory if you want. I’m not arguing the validity of Christianity again. Good day and God bless you.[/quote]

“Since around 60% of the Dead Sea Scrolls are extra Biblical, many things have been found that don’t coincide with the Bible.”

The fuck happened to “virtually identical”?

How about we’re done because you people cant be honest and consistent about anything?

“Buh, well, its virtually identical except for all the parts that dont coincide.”[/quote]

40% of the scrolls are books from the Old Testament. They were virtually identical to what we have now. The other 60% of the scrolls contain other information. They are extra Biblical. Do a little research if you’re interested instead of looking at one website. I suppose you’re the open minded one though.