Defining a 'True Christian'?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< And I have no respect for bad answers to those ultimate questions. >>>[/quote]Nor do I. That’s why I let He who IS ultimate in every way give me His. No, there’s no way I can prove that to you on your terms. I consider it folly to even try. Your demand for what you call proof is already an affirmation of the non existence of the God who is actually there. That false humility whereby you seem to proclaim your honest lack of knowledge, is also itself a positive denial of the God who says you DO in fact know who He is and that you are accountable to Him. (Romans 1)

Here’s what it is. In light of the biblical world view you are in a deathtrap of incurable circular reasoning whereby you are always forced back to an appeal to self which is subjective in the nature of the case.

In light of the unbelieving world view it is I who is trapped in the subjective incurable appeal to self and here we are. You wondering how I could believe all that crap and me understanding you completely by remembering when I didn’t. You have faith in you and I have faith in THE LORD. The ancient of days. You see it as simply a matter of course that you should believe yourself first in all things. I see it as spiritual death from which I do earnestly pray that you will one day be raised.

262

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< Then why do so many religions build “This religion is true and anyone who disagrees will be punished purely for their disagreement” into their teachings? [/quote]Religion by definition is a world view purporting to answer man’s ultimate questions. It is not possible that ultimate questions be susceptible to multiple answers or they are not ultimate after all. There is nothing I have less respect for than “religious tolerance” defined as “all honest seekers eventually find God”. [/quote]

And I have no respect for bad answers to those ultimate questions. Even when those professing those bad answers say “Well at least I HAVE an answer!”, or when they say “No! I refuse to see anything but the trueness of my answer!”, or “If I can find a flaw in YOUR answer, then the only alternative is that MY answer is true!”

“I dont know” is a much better answer than an obviously untrue one.

How did the universe start? We don’t know = better than “A man up in the sky spoke”

What is right and wrong? We don’t know = better than “What the man in the sky says”

Is there a purpose to my life? I dont know = better than “To do what the invisible man in the sky says I should”

What happens when we die? We dont know = better than “The invisible man in the sky punishes us eternally or rewards us eternally”

[/quote]

Who is this invisible man in the sky?

263

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< Who is this invisible man in the sky?[/quote]D.B. Cooper

264

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
<<< And I have no respect for bad answers to those ultimate questions. >>>[/quote]Nor do I. That’s why I let He who IS ultimate in every way give me His. No, there’s no way I can prove that to you on your terms. I consider it folly to even try. Your demand for what you call proof is already an affirmation of the non existence of the God who is actually there. That false humility whereby you seem to proclaim your honest lack of knowledge, is also itself a positive denial of the God who says you DO in fact know who He is and that you are accountable to Him. (Romans 1)

Here’s what it is. In light of the biblical world view you are in a deathtrap of incurable circular reasoning whereby you are always forced back to an appeal to self which is subjective in the nature of the case.

In light of the unbelieving world view it is I who is trapped in the subjective incurable appeal to self and here we are. You wondering how I could believe all that crap and me understanding you completely by remembering when I didn’t. You have faith in you and I have faith in THE LORD. The ancient of days. You see it as simply a matter of course that you should believe yourself first in all things. I see it as spiritual death from which I do earnestly pray that you will one day be raised.
[/quote]

Admitting that I dont know what happens to a person after they die (if there is an afterlife, what it is, etc) isn’t “false humility”. It’s honesty.

265

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< Who is this invisible man in the sky?[/quote]D.B. Cooper
[/quote]

He’s still pulling the world’s strings in a vacuum sealed hotel room?

266

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< Who is this invisible man in the sky?[/quote]D.B. Cooper
[/quote]He’s still pulling the world’s strings in a vacuum sealed hotel room?[/quote]I think he’s really Richard Simmons.

267

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< Who is this invisible man in the sky?[/quote]D.B. Cooper
[/quote]He’s still pulling the world’s strings in a vacuum sealed hotel room?[/quote]I think he’s really Richard Simmons.
[/quote]

World’s best Conman and germ-a-phobe to World’s gayest showman?

268

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
<<< World’s best Conman and germ-a-phobe to World’s gayest showman? [/quote]The American way nowadays

269

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

Hell is reserved for those who have chosen to reject God their entire lives. [/quote]

I do not believe the Christian concept of God is true. Will this result in me going to Hell?[/quote]

Yes, however, again this is not a punishment. Think about it. You don’t believe in God so you are saying you don’t want to be with God. In eternity, you will not be with God so you will have what you have chosen. I’m not saying this will be beneficial just that it is a natural consequence instead of a punishment.

270

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

Hell is reserved for those who have chosen to reject God their entire lives. [/quote]

I do not believe the Christian concept of God is true. Will this result in me going to Hell?[/quote]

Yes, however, again this is not a punishment. Think about it. You don’t believe in God so you are saying you don’t want to be with God. In eternity, you will not be with God so you will have what you have chosen. I’m not saying this will be beneficial just that it is a natural consequence instead of a punishment.[/quote]

This is one of those times you don’t judge, you don’t judge if someone is going to Hell or Heaven, because you don’t know their heart and you don’t know if God will be merciful with that person.

Hell is not a punishment? Jesus likened it to Gehenna, a place of fire that never goes out. Sounds unpleasant to me.

271

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

Hell is reserved for those who have chosen to reject God their entire lives. [/quote]

I do not believe the Christian concept of God is true. Will this result in me going to Hell?[/quote]

Yes, however, again this is not a punishment. Think about it. You don’t believe in God so you are saying you don’t want to be with God. In eternity, you will not be with God so you will have what you have chosen. I’m not saying this will be beneficial just that it is a natural consequence instead of a punishment.[/quote]

This is one of those times you don’t judge, you don’t judge if someone is going to Hell or Heaven, because you don’t know their heart and you don’t know if God will be merciful with that person.

Hell is not a punishment? Jesus likened it to Gehenna, a place of fire that never goes out. Sounds unpleasant to me.

272

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

Hell is reserved for those who have chosen to reject God their entire lives. [/quote]

I do not believe the Christian concept of God is true. Will this result in me going to Hell?[/quote]

Yes, however, again this is not a punishment. Think about it. You don’t believe in God so you are saying you don’t want to be with God. In eternity, you will not be with God so you will have what you have chosen. I’m not saying this will be beneficial just that it is a natural consequence instead of a punishment.[/quote]

This is one of those times you don’t judge, you don’t judge if someone is going to Hell or Heaven, because you don’t know their heart and you don’t know if God will be merciful with that person.

Hell is not a punishment? Jesus likened it to Gehenna, a place of fire that never goes out. Sounds unpleasant to me.

[/quote]

Well, true I have no idea what a person’s destination is in the afterlife. I know that the Bible says hell is for those that do not follow God, but ultimately, I won’t make the decision on judgment day. Hell will not be pleasant. It’s described as agony. However, it’s not described as torture, and it’s still not punishment. Punishment would be an unfair consequence. Those who will spend eternity in hell will do so because that is what they have chosen. They did not want a relationship with God so in eternity they will be forver separated from Him.

273

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

Hell is reserved for those who have chosen to reject God their entire lives. [/quote]

I do not believe the Christian concept of God is true. Will this result in me going to Hell?[/quote]

Yes, however, again this is not a punishment. Think about it. You don’t believe in God so you are saying you don’t want to be with God. In eternity, you will not be with God so you will have what you have chosen. I’m not saying this will be beneficial just that it is a natural consequence instead of a punishment.[/quote]

So god sends me to hell for not believing in him. Thats cool, that makes sense…

except, ya know, if god doesn’t exist. Then, there would be no god for which to send me to hell. Nor a hell to send me to.

So, telling me something I dont believe in will do something to me after I die? Not convincing. As well tell me gnomes will rape me in my sleep for not believing in them.

274

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Punishment would be an unfair consequence. [/quote]

I am not understanding where you get this definition.

275

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]jakerz96 wrote:

Once you know this you then say, oh man I don’t want to be damned, so I’ll believe, now I’m saved, but is my faith real? Did I just save myself? Am I really saved? Should I tell other people? Well, they are either saved or not, so I guess it doesn’t matter if I evangelize, but then Jesus called us to evangelize. [/quote]

Religion = Say I’m right or else you’re in big trouble! Ok, good. Now go tell others to say we’re right, or else they’ll be in trouble! And make sure to tell them to tell others the same thing!

Here’s a question for you: what if there is a god that is not the christian god, and will be furious and punish you eternally for believing in Yahweh instead of him/her/it? [/quote]

Religion is a means by which to communicate with God. It’s not supposed to be a school ground, ‘I am right and your wrong’ and your going to hell kind of deal.

[/quote]

Then why do so many religions build “This religion is true and anyone who disagrees will be punished purely for their disagreement” into their teachings? [/quote]

It’s a damn good question. I do not know. That’s my issue ultimately, people claim exclusivity to God and I don’t thinks that’s even possible. I wouldn’t think that God would think your right because YOU said so, but many people feel that have this exclusive relationship to the detriment of others. And everybody claims to get it from the same source.
It’s a legitimate beef. I think, when you boil it down to it’s most primal need, people just want to feel special somehow. Truthfully it’s a good feeling. People do a lot of things just to feel special.

I figure most people agree, whether you like it or hate it, religion is damn interesting.

276

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
A true life? True in what way?[/quote]

You crack me up… That is a fabulous question, I don’t know what that means either. and I mean no insult to the OP, just what is a true life?

277

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

Hell is reserved for those who have chosen to reject God their entire lives. [/quote]

I do not believe the Christian concept of God is true. Will this result in me going to Hell?[/quote]

Yes, however, again this is not a punishment. Think about it. You don’t believe in God so you are saying you don’t want to be with God. In eternity, you will not be with God so you will have what you have chosen. I’m not saying this will be beneficial just that it is a natural consequence instead of a punishment.[/quote]

So god sends me to hell for not believing in him. Thats cool, that makes sense…

except, ya know, if god doesn’t exist. Then, there would be no god for which to send me to hell. Nor a hell to send me to.

So, telling me something I dont believe in will do something to me after I die? Not convincing. As well tell me gnomes will rape me in my sleep for not believing in them.[/quote]

Choosing not to believe in something, doesn’t make it not true. The important thing is to be right.

278

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
A true life? True in what way?[/quote]

You crack me up… That is a fabulous question, I don’t know what that means either. and I mean no insult to the OP, just what is a true life? [/quote]

Maybe “a true life” is poor word choice, but the rest of the sentence explains my meaning.

279

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:
Punishment would be an unfair consequence. [/quote]

I am not understanding where you get this definition.[/quote]

Ok, God tells you to believe in Him, worship Him, and honor his ways and you get to heaven. So going to heaven is the natural consequence for obeying God. God tells you that if you choose not to do those things you will go to hell. So hell is a natural consequence. It would only be a punishment if God just for kicks sent half the world to hell for a chuckle.

280

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]BBriere wrote:

Hell is reserved for those who have chosen to reject God their entire lives. [/quote]

I do not believe the Christian concept of God is true. Will this result in me going to Hell?[/quote]

Yes, however, again this is not a punishment. Think about it. You don’t believe in God so you are saying you don’t want to be with God. In eternity, you will not be with God so you will have what you have chosen. I’m not saying this will be beneficial just that it is a natural consequence instead of a punishment.[/quote]

So god sends me to hell for not believing in him. Thats cool, that makes sense…

except, ya know, if god doesn’t exist. Then, there would be no god for which to send me to hell. Nor a hell to send me to.

So, telling me something I dont believe in will do something to me after I die? Not convincing. As well tell me gnomes will rape me in my sleep for not believing in them.[/quote]

Choosing not to believe in something, doesn’t make it not true. The important thing is to be right.[/quote]

Agreed. Also, choosing to believe in something does not make it true.

So how, then, do you determine what is true, without starting from one side or the other?

Logic? Reason? Oh dear, no. That’s sinful, fallen man stuff. You’ll be spiritually dead.