Considering an anarchic/voluntary society would be comprised of like minded individuals realizing they don’t need government, your scenario is fiction. It’s “evolutionary”, not society turned on its head.
What if a group of like-minded individuals down the road from your like-minded individuals become like-minded about forming a group and going up and down the street beating up and intimidating other groups into giving up their lunch money?[/quote]
I could hire, through a contract (since you like to talk about those), a security force. Or, I could use my own weapons to protect myself, as could others within the community.
Your scenario is pretty commonplace. We see neighboring Amish communities in turf wars all the time. Drive by shootings from their horse-drawn buggies and what not.
[quote]pookie wrote:
orion wrote:
pookie wrote:
orion wrote:
There is nothing coercive about it if you choose your boss and can walk away from him whenever you wish.
Depending on your skills and job availability and on whether you have a family to feed or others that depend on your income, that choice can become vanishingly small.
So you really have to be in dire straits in order to be in the same relationship with your employer that you are by default with your government?
Also, in this case it is your circumstances “forcing” you, not your employer.
Your employer just gives you another option, work for him or don�?�´t.
You have the same freedom with your government: Don’t like it? Emigrate to a more amenable country.
[/quote]
That is true, but this is an interesting phenomenon and I happen to have first class seats.
Austria is small, in one hour you can be in 20 different countries.
Our doctors actually flee the system f.E.
So maybe until now a smug: “Hey,love it or leave it” was enough.
Now it is cheaper to work somewhere else and to spend your weekends at home.
I actually live in a country where the government yells that challenge in talented peoples faces and guess what:
They leave, because now they can.
Let us see what happens when that phenomenon grows enough to affect larger countries.
I’d pay good money to see most anarchists granted their wishes and sent to an actual anarchy. My bet is that most wouldn’t last a day before they were sucking dick or having their skull cap used as an ashtray by some freedom-loving anarchist mob boss.
Indeed.
I would be running shit. It’s be like Waterworld without The Gay.
Whatever, you would be too drunk to run anything.[/quote]
On second thought, it could be possible. U. S. Grant was an alcoholic and what look what he accomplished.
I could hire, through a contract (since you like to talk about those), a security force. Or, I could use my own weapons to protect myself, as could others within the community.[/quote]
There would be no one to enforce the contract, and the Gang could just outbid you anyway - after all, they are ruthless and probably have more money than you.
Why are you obsessed with the Amish? Why aren’t you just obsessed with Cosa Nostra, the Bloods and/or Crips, cattle rustlers of the American West, or the brigands on the historical trade routes of Asia?
I’d pay good money to see most anarchists granted their wishes and sent to an actual anarchy. My bet is that most wouldn’t last a day before they were sucking dick or having their skull cap used as an ashtray by some freedom-loving anarchist mob boss.
Indeed.
I would be running shit. It’s be like Waterworld without The Gay.
Whatever, you would be too drunk to run anything.
On second thought, it could be possible. U. S. Grant was an alcoholic and what look what he accomplished.
[/quote]
well, as an excellent strategist and soldier he would have known when not to drink and possess the diszipline to act on it.
[quote]pookie wrote:
Doing away with governments doesn’t solve the underlying problems that governments were put in place to deal with.[/quote]
Government was not instituted to solve any problems. It was instituted to domnate over people. I wouldn’t exactly call the lack of being dominated over a “problem”.
I’d pay good money to see most anarchists granted their wishes and sent to an actual anarchy. My bet is that most wouldn’t last a day before they were sucking dick or having their skull cap used as an ashtray by some freedom-loving anarchist mob boss.
Indeed.
I would be running shit. It’s be like Waterworld without The Gay.
Whatever, you would be too drunk to run anything.[/quote]
I bet they said the same thing about Churchill, Roosevelt, Ben Franklin… I could go on.
Why are you obsessed with the Amish? Why aren’t you just obsessed with Cosa Nostra, the Bloods and/or Crips, cattle rustlers of the American West, or the brigands on the historical trade routes of Asia?[/quote]
They touched him when he was little. In his bad places.
I could hire, through a contract (since you like to talk about those), a security force. Or, I could use my own weapons to protect myself, as could others within the community.
There would be no one to enforce the contract, and the Gang could just outbid you anyway - after all, they are ruthless and probably have more money than you.
[/quote]
Why not? This company and I signed a contract. The market would dictate that it is enforced or else this company won’t stay in business very long. Breaching contracts is not good for business.
Calm down thunder. It was a joke. It was the example we talked about previously.
Government was not instituted to solve any problems. It was instituted to domnate over people. I wouldn’t exactly call the lack of being dominated over a “problem”.[/quote]
I wish I had this ability to erase all common sense and reinvent history at an ideological whim.
Strangely, Lifticus tells us that people always act in their self-interest, except when they institute governments, in which case, they don’t.
I’d pay good money to see most anarchists granted their wishes and sent to an actual anarchy. My bet is that most wouldn’t last a day before they were sucking dick or having their skull cap used as an ashtray by some freedom-loving anarchist mob boss.
Indeed.
I would be running shit. It’s be like Waterworld without The Gay.
Whatever, you would be too drunk to run anything.
I bet they said the same thing about Churchill, Roosevelt, Ben Franklin… I could go on. [/quote]
Why not? This company and I signed a contract. The market would dictate that it is enforced or else this company won’t stay in business very long. Breaching contracts is not good for business.[/quote]
If they get outbid, that is a new, better contract - and you are left with nothing. If they are good at their job, they will get hired again. Mercenaries are as old as war and coin.
I am not upset about it, I actually do wonder how you account for these products of “voluntary society” when they aren’t interested in conforming to your pacifist community network.
Why are you obsessed with the Amish? Why aren’t you just obsessed with Cosa Nostra, the Bloods and/or Crips, cattle rustlers of the American West, or the brigands on the historical trade routes of Asia?
They touched him when he was little. In his bad places.[/quote]
If they get outbid, that is a new, better contract - and you are left with nothing. If they are good at their job, they will get hired again. Mercenaries are as old as war and coin.
[/quote]
Who says the contract I signed with company X is a part of public record. Companies/corporations don’t usually advertise their business ventures. I know Blackwater (or whatever they call themselves now) and Aegis don’t. It doesn’t really matter anyway because I could go down the street and hire a different company.
[quote]
I am not upset about it, I actually do wonder how you account for these products of “voluntary society” when they aren’t interested in conforming to your pacifist community network.[/quote]
Organized crime only exists within a government structure. Tony Soprano loves living in the US, he just doesn’t like the government telling him he can’t sell drugs or cheat on his taxes. The Bloods and Crips may not even exist if drugs were legalized, which they would be in a voluntary society. It would take away their source of revenue. In fact, these groups would probably not want to live in a voluntary society because they can’t make money as they typically would within the state.
[quote]orion wrote:
Austria is small, in one hour you can be in 20 different countries.[/quote]
And you’re still there? Even Ahnuld was smart enough to GTFO.
Doctors are usually found at the smart end of the IQ scale.
[quote]So maybe until now a smug: “Hey,love it or leave it” was enough.
Now it is cheaper to work somewhere else and to spend your weekends at home.
I actually live in a country where the government yells that challenge in talented peoples faces and guess what:
They leave, because now they can.
Let us see what happens when that phenomenon grows enough to affect larger countries.[/quote]
Well, they have to go somewhere, right? It’s like natural selection for governments. Eventually, the countries who have “good” (as good as a necessary evil can get anyway) governments will attract more citizens and prosper; while those who have bad or sucky governments will decline.
Some might close their borders; they’ll be overthrown from within or without eventually.
Government was not instituted to solve any problems. It was instituted to domnate over people. I wouldn’t exactly call the lack of being dominated over a “problem”.
I wish I had this ability to erase all common sense and reinvent history at an ideological whim.
.[/quote]
You do not lack it my friend, you are just not aware of it.
[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Government was not instituted to solve any problems. It was instituted to domnate over people. I wouldn’t exactly call the lack of being dominated over a “problem”.[/quote]
Governments, again, don’t spontaneously appear. They form of the people’s own wishes and grow from there. Can a large impersonal government oppress and betray it’s initial purpose? Sure. Doesn’t mean that all and every form of government is undesirable.
In your fabled anarchy, how are rules enforced? Even if it could be composed of like-minded people, how would you resolve disputes? Unless anarchy magically does away with selfishness and greed?
[quote]pookie wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Government was not instituted to solve any problems. It was instituted to domnate over people. I wouldn’t exactly call the lack of being dominated over a “problem”.
Governments, again, don’t spontaneously appear. They form of the people’s own wishes and grow from there. Can a large impersonal government oppress and betray it’s initial purpose? Sure. Doesn’t mean that all and every form of government is undesirable.
In your fabled anarchy, how are rules enforced? Even if it could be composed of like-minded people, how would you resolve disputes? Unless anarchy magically does away with selfishness and greed?