[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
No power rack so I front squat and deadlift.
I love it. I don’t feel like I am missing anything anymore.[/quote]
I do the same. Front squats are very unique, and certainly break the monotony of JUST deadlifting. ATG front squats really have helped my quads too!
Also, I too am one of those long armed, shorter torsoed, longish legged guys. Although I’m only 5’8", just the structure of my body is, in essence, ectomorphic. I love deadlifts, and they’re the most natural for me (so far I’ve only pulled from a deficit, I’ve yet to test a true max off of some 45’s, actually, I’ve never maxed out yet, I need to get me some 45s I guess!). I focus more on deadlifts because it is a strong point, but I don’t totally disregard squats either. They’re just as important. Even if your numbers suck at bench and squat, who cares? It’s the effort, time, and intensity you put into your lifts. If you gain poundage slower, that’s fine. If something works better, like dips (I found dips work better for me too…heh), then that’s great too. Don’t totally write off an exercise (which you said you wouldn’t anyway, so no big deal) just because you’re not “built” for it. That’s the fun in lifting…to get stronger!
After much deliberation on all the advice and opinions, I have to admit that I was wrong. There is room for just about everything if one goes about one’s training intelligently. I don’t have to abandon squats entirely.
I will still focus on the deadlift the same way I focus on the chins because I’m just built to excel in those lifts, but I’ll still use back, front and even overhead squats and pistols as tools. After all you don’t build a house with just a hammer, right?
I’ve discovered that deadlifts and back squats interfere with each other because of the overlap, but I experimented tonight and front squats didn’t seem to be suffering from my heavy deadlifting schedule. And despite an honest front squat effort, I feel very ready for heavy deadlifts tomorrow. When I cycle in back squats, I can just replace the deadlift with the SLDL or keystone deadlift. Heck, there may even be room for benches and rows sometime!
[quote]L-Dizzle wrote:
grey wrote:
Am enjoying this discussion.
Have recently been playing with the idea of deads vs. squats. The reason being back pain while squating vs. no pain deadlifting. Of course I would never throw out legpress. Come to think of it I will still keep the squat in my program but with higher reps and lower weight.
As for bench…that is a core movement for me and even though it’s not my best lift I enjoy it. I also have long arms and have had to increase tricep strength in order to get my bench to respectable numbers.
I use a narrower grip than most and am having pretty good success.
It seems that the longer limbs the more difficult the road to large lifts and large muscles but when you finally do arrive it’s well worth it.
I can also bench more with a narrower grip than with a wide grip. Funny, since people usually advocate a wider grip for more weight. Right now, even though I don’t put a lot of focus on the bench, I use a wider grip and do a lot of rows, since I’m weaker with that grip.[/quote]
grey, I’m going to start including the occasional bench press in my routine. You’re right; it will be so much more satisfying to make progress in moves that are difficult for me. I may even start full squat snatching again in a few months. Right now it would be very gratifying to add 25% to my back squat, bench press and overhead press, the strength moves that give me the most trouble. I add about 5 lbs to my chin and 10 lbs to my deadlift every week and it’s just getting a little boring…not that I want it to stop, mind you! I just don’t feel the same high that I used to. When I get to 200% bw chins for reps and 300% bw deadlift, it won’t mean quite as much as getting 200% bench or 200%+ back squat. The chin and deadlift targets I fully expect to meet, but the bench and squat targets would be a pleasant surprise.
L-dizzle, I’m guessing that the close grip is stronger if one is benching flat back against the bench. If one is bridging and going for a competition-style technique bench in which the pecs take a back seat to the lats (sort of like a decline press or a dip), then a wide grip may be more appropriate for getting more weight. Not sure how accurate that explanation is.
You don’t have to just do squats for leg strength. Like you said, deadlifts are going to target your posterior chain, but you need a anterior chain quad dominant exercise for balance and muscle fiber recruitment.
Try variations of single leg work. Throw in some Bulgarian Squats, Vercher Squats, maybe some belt squats (used by bigtime D1 basketball teams because of the length of the lever arm)
All of those are more like split squats, rather than two foot vertical pushes. Or, you could do leg presses…
You don’t have to just do squats for leg strength. Like you said, deadlifts are going to target your posterior chain, but you need a anterior chain quad dominant exercise for balance and muscle fiber recruitment.
Try variations of single leg work. Throw in some Bulgarian Squats, Vercher Squats, maybe some belt squats (used by bigtime D1 basketball teams because of the length of the lever arm)
All of those are more like split squats, rather than two foot vertical pushes. Or, you could do leg presses…
snatchcleanjerk, did you say yea or nay to the reverse dead aka reverse squat aka barbell hack squat? That would complement your dead routine quite nicely. Or do some lunges with either barbell or db’s.
It may be just me, but giving up on a muscle group just doesn’t seem responsible.
As for the benchpress: try half presses. The lower half of that motion is chest dominant. Go from chest half up throughout your whole routine. Thus, you’ve cut out that whole long arm situation. It’s great for developing the chest for “overdeveloped” triceps weightlifters. [Note: I got that little tidbit from our own C. Thibideau. Thanks Thib]
I experimented with hack squats many years ago when I was trying absolutely everything at least once. They were a staple of George Hackenschmidt’s training, correct? I really don’t see how I could handle very much weight in the movement. It may be challenging just because of the mechanics of the execution, not the overload to the quads. Of course, this is just me hypothesizing as I haven’t tried them with weight in years. After I read your suggestion, I tried a few “air” hack squats and I could see problems with doing the same movement with a loaded barbell and maintaining my balance.
Thanks for the complement, by the way.
I do like pistols and I do them Pavel-style, i.e. greasing the groove by banging out sets at multiple times in the day and when no one’s watching. I haven’t tried the Bulgarian squat, but I will when I try the hack squat. As if I’m not attracting enough attention in the gym!
