[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
masonator wrote:
elano wrote:
If your squat is 270 and your deadlift is only 250, then I say you are not squatting deep enough. You should be going below parallel. Take the weight down on your squat and start going ATG.
That will build your hamstrings up to where they should be. Your deadlift should almost always be more than your squat. My max deadlift is 100 lbs more than my max squat below parallel. Also maybe your form is crappy.
AGAIN with this retarded arguement. I have squatted 605 to legal depth (I train with an SPF judge), but my max dead is 550. I’m very tired of hearing this.
do you use any gear?[/quote]
both in the same pair of briefs(I squat wide and dl sumo). it is the same case raw as well.
If you’re trying to pull conventional, give sumo a try. I tried to pull conventional off and on for years and could never get the hang of it. I tried sumo and finally started getting a feel for the lift. The most I’d ever pulled conventional was 225. I got to 315 pretty quickly after switching to sumo. I’ve known several people who had the same issue. It’s easier for some people to learn to keep their asses down on a deadlift when they’re pulling sumo.
After a few months, I was able to switch back to conventional. That was about 4 years ago or so. I pulled over 6 in gear a couple months ago. Yeah, you have to do all the grip work (I don’t think the CoC grippers really contribute anything to a deadlift tho) and the form work and the rep work, but sometimes you need to approach learning the lift a little differently to be successful.
The CoC grippers are mearly a good place to start if you need to develop hand strength.
I have a CoC 2 that I like to play around with while Im working.
Its not that difficult to close, but I still like to play with it.
Most of my grip strength is from rows, farmers walks, and deadlifts.
Ive tried “wrist curls” and all that crap, its useless.
In my experience super heavy farmers walks are the way to go, as most gyms have dumbells from atleast 50-150.
Start at whatever you can make all the way around the gym with, and go up 5 or 10 pounds until you max out with whatever your gym has dumbell wise, then you can go for two laps if you like.
I also love walks while holding the side of a dumbbell.
This is like a plate pinch, but instead you grip the rubber cylinder on the side of the dumbell.
If your gym has metal dumbells then oh well.
The reason I like these is because the rubber gets thicker the heavier you go.
So you hand has to be wider and hold more weight.
Eventually you have to do plate pinches because your hand will not fit around the rubber anymore at higher weights.
[quote]blazindave wrote:
elano wrote:
Deadlift is wednesdays only and it goes like this.
Squat 5 reps 4 sets. Building up to about 60 percent of my 1 rm.
Then it’s press (only wednesdays too).
Then i do 4 sets of deadlifts (building up) to my last set…5 sets total… All 5 reps.
I think i might be pulling with my back and not my hips.
[/quote]
Nobody thinks this is a problem? I think doing deads after squats AND bench your CNS is pretty fried and won’t be as effective. Shit, I know if I went and did this I wouldn’t be able to deadlift no way near my max. Try moving one of the compounds to another day, or move deads first. You should be using the heaviest weight in your 1st exercise, and I know that you squat more but you will want to get your dl up.
Have you tried putting the DLs @ the start of you workouts when you are fresh? OR specializing in them for a programme?
When I want to kill myself on DLs I do them first in the workout so I am fresh.
How about your height? At your listed height of 5’3 you sound built for good DL #s… just give it time, keep working your grip strength (even out of the gym)
Maybe a video of your DL technique would help other forumites in disssecting where there is any weak link in your form.
You mention your quads feel fatigued. As a cyclist I know that P Chain activation was a real challenge when I started lifting for bigger numbers. I was a quad dominant monster. I put a huge focus on DLs and P Chain work in order to get everything back into balance.
My guess is you are pushing more with the balls of your feet than you heels. It takes attention and time but I would drop the weight and work on form. If you squat 270 and get the recruitment pattern right your DL will go through the roof in no time flat.
When I started DL less than 1 year ago 225 was a struggle. I can now pull 405 for reps without straps or a belt. I can feel the difference in recruitment.
Also really helped my cycling too. Although the extra weight makes it a little tougher.
Holy fucking shit! No wonder people get confused about lifting. He’s getting all sorts of advice coming from all different angles. People make this stuff out to be way more complicated than it really is.
[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
masonator wrote:
elano wrote:
If your squat is 270 and your deadlift is only 250, then I say you are not squatting deep enough. You should be going below parallel. Take the weight down on your squat and start going ATG.
That will build your hamstrings up to where they should be. Your deadlift should almost always be more than your squat. My max deadlift is 100 lbs more than my max squat below parallel. Also maybe your form is crappy.
AGAIN with this retarded arguement. I have squatted 605 to legal depth (I train with an SPF judge), but my max dead is 550. I’m very tired of hearing this.
do you use any gear?[/quote]
Believe it or not some people squat more than they pull. That is- they squat more (to depth) without gear, wraps, or maybe even a belt than they pull. They are just set up that way. I have seen this a number of times. I have been training with this one kid lately- the weight that he buries for two triples when its on his back barely breaks from the floor when he tries to pick it up.
I think you can split hairs over why this is so- but it is. So work from there.
To the OP, I recommend pulling from a slight deficit (1-2 inches). Also, getting in lots of heavy upper back work (barbell rows, shrugs, pullups, DB rows, rack pulls) will help. If nothing else, at your strength levels, your pull WILL go up if you keep training your pull directly.
I second the idea that you do your deadlifts before you squat for a while. You might want to add another day to separate the two lifts as well.
If it’s your posterior chain holding you back, add in some RDLs, GHRs and SLDLs on days you don’t normally train legs. Go mostly light and work on perfecting form and increasing speed.
Good Luck!
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
If you Squat 275 ‘ATG’ but you have trouble with 225 then you are injured or you do not know what a Deadlift is.
Are you using 2 hands?
This is just totally impossible. [/quote]
I have pulled 250 for 5 reps and it was felt great.
Then after something happened. I got my back checked but the doctor hasnt called so i think i dont have any problems but i get a sudden feeling of soreness if i bend over (upper body reaches parallel to floor)in my lower back.
It could be that i am injured or just tired.
Also, for the guy who said frying the CNS, wednesday is light squat (not more than 60 percent), press (as in the standing up press, not supine/bench press) and then deadlifts.
I will try taking the squats out and just putting deadlifts.
It’s simply that i try to be humble and it seems that “you’re a newb you know nothing” is the way to go about it on training plans. People recommended bill starr/mad cow after rippetoes so that’s what i did.
I have a CoC #1 and im about an inch-half an inch away from closing it. My grip is currently at girl scout level.
I will take out the light squat on wednesdays and put deadlifts first, then continue with press and finish with my dips.
For the record,
I can currently bench press 205 for reps of 3.
My back squat is 275 for 3 reps.
I can do 5 pull ups with an extra 55 pounds.
I can do 5 dips with an extra 95 pounds.
I can only power clean 130 for 3 reps (i could do more but follow the program).
My press is 130 pounds for 5 reps.
I currently weight 140 pounds.
I don’t think my back is “weak” but i feel i should be able to pull more for my “strength level”.
I also deadlift double overhand. I hate mixed grip.
I also deadlift double overhand. I hate mixed grip.
[/quote]
HA. You need to change this right away. It’ll make the weight feel sooo much lighter. If it really bothers you, then use straps.
Loui Simmons says if your grip is weak, then train it separately. Sounds like you are since you’re using a COC Gripper. Toss in some High-Rep Strapless Dumbbell Rows and you’re golden.
Seriously, this sounds like its all in your head and your over analyzing it.
If you can really squat what you say you can you have a real shot at deadlifting a comparable number, especially at your level. Just do it (Unless you are hurt)
best thing I have ever found for grip related to deadlift is to do 1 and 2-hand weighted hangs. Or just holding the bar for as long as possible on the last rep.
I tried the CoC grippers, but all they did was overwork my hands (my fault of course). After doing hangs for time, I closed the #2 easy, something I hadn’t been able to do while working with the grippers themselves.
Zydrunas Zsavickas and Adrus Murumets like hangs too.
You need to switch to an alternating (mixed) grip or learn the hook grip whether you like it or not. Try a set using a pronated grip with straps, if there is a big difference in your ability then you need to switch over, there is probably a 150 lb difference between my pronated grip and alternated grip.
[quote]AssOnGrass wrote:
No offense, but you can’t avoid stuff because you don’t like it. I hate doing heavy RDL’s and I hate doing bent over rows, but it needs to get done.
Mix your grip, you’ll get used to it.[/quote]
I LOVE those.
Benching. Oh how I hate benching. When people who use a 5-Board ROM tell me they bench almost as much as me, I just want to push their eyes into the back of their skulls. Well, that was random.
What on earth are you doing the rest of the week that you have to squat, press, and deadlift on the same day?
Someone brought up CNS fatigue, but honestly it’s unlikely you’re going to ‘fry your CNS’ given your (no offense) relatively low levels of strength, and the fact that you are only working up to 60% of 1 RM for squat (did I read that right?) As in, you work up to 165 for a set of 5? Is that even challenging? A 5 x 4 isn’t a lot of volume to be doing light weight…
It’s not abnormal to squat more than you can deadlift, though this is a bit pronounced. It’s a simple matter of mechanics. If you deadlift a significant amount more than you squat, odds are you have monkey arms and don’t have to bend down nearly as much to get your hands on the bar. Someone with stocky femurs is simply better equipped for the squat.
If your sticking point is on the ground, you simply lack the ability to rapidly generate force without a prior eccentric. As has been said before, do some speed deadlifts and box squats. Heavy box squats with a decent pause are great for teaching the body to move a lot of weight from a standstill.
As also has been said, do some RDLs to work on your grip and bring up your deadlift at the same time. And if you are working at 60% of your 1RM for 4 reps, seriously, increase the weight, at least for your primary movements.
I don’t see a reason for a true beginner to be doing 60% of a 1RM for any less than 10 reps… even an EDT protocol would likely require more weight than that.